It shouldn't be necessary. At all. Any God worth his salt would say, "Dudes, what the fuck is up with the war and the rape and the murder, the starving children, the terrorism, and the poverty?? Get your shit together!"
The fact that God hasn't done so is proof. Proof that God doesn't exist, or proof that if God exists, God is shitty.
There's more options than that. Free will; the best and worst gift humans were given. If we wish to destroy ourselves, so be it. That's not proof or disproof of god.
Sounds like a weak attempt to sidestep God's responsibility. "It's all part of my infinite plan. Except if it sucks, then it's human free will. Oh yeah, concerning that, I'm giving you free will as an option to torture each other in every conceivable way, and I know you will use it to do just that. Not my fault, your the one with the free will."
Why should it be god's or any other higher beings responsibility to play puppet master? I think it's ridiculous for human beings to look at the atrocities that occur in our world and then use that as a reason to proclaim there is no god. That's sidestepping responsibility on our part. I don't see a god so it doesn't exist. Well, anyone here see an atom around them?
Think of it this way, you raise your children to be good responsible and kind individuals, but they still won't always make the right choice or do the right thing, even if you helicopter parent and then even less so. Is that god's fault because they are allowed free thought?
Imagine a god that didn't allow free will, everything you did or said was controlled and measured to an extent to achieve a certain result. Sounds a lot like a dictator, which no one here likes. I guess if we were mindless zombies then there would never be any issues, but you wouldn't know the difference because you wouldn't be allowed to think. Happiness would ensue worldwide.
Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation, but I think it's important to recognize that without happy we wouldn't know sad. Atrocity is a necessary evil that I wish upon no one, but it serves a purpose.
It shouldn't be necessary. At all. Any God worth his salt would say, "Dudes, what the fuck is up with the war and the rape and the murder, the starving children, the terrorism, and the poverty?? Get your shit together!"
The fact that God hasn't done so is proof. Proof that God doesn't exist, or proof that if God exists, God is shitty.
There's more options than that. Free will; the best and worst gift humans were given. If we wish to destroy ourselves, so be it. That's not proof or disproof of god.
Sounds like a weak attempt to sidestep God's responsibility. "It's all part of my infinite plan. Except if it sucks, then it's human free will. Oh yeah, concerning that, I'm giving you free will as an option to torture each other in every conceivable way, and I know you will use it to do just that. Not my fault, your the one with the free will."
Why should it be god's or any other higher beings responsibility to play puppet master? I think it's ridiculous for human beings to look at the atrocities that occur in our world and then use that as a reason to proclaim there is no god. That's sidestepping responsibility on our part. I don't see a god so it doesn't exist. Well, anyone here see an atom around them?
Think of it this way, you raise your children to be good responsible and kind individuals, but they still won't always make the right choice or do the right thing, even if you helicopter parent and then even less so. Is that god's fault because they are allowed free thought?
Imagine a god that didn't allow free will, everything you did or said was controlled and measured to an extent to achieve a certain result. Sounds a lot like a dictator, which no one here likes. I guess if we were mindless zombies then there would never be any issues, but you wouldn't know the difference because you wouldn't be allowed to think. Happiness would ensue worldwide.
Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation, but I think it's important to recognize that without happy we wouldn't know sad. Atrocity is a necessary evil that I wish upon no one, but it serves a purpose.
Don't claim omnipotence if you can't back it up!
Well, if you believe the bible, that happened about 2000 years ago, but my past lives' memories escape me and I don't know how accurate the written accounts are. Can't dispute it either way, but that's part of the challenge. You either have the faith or you don't. I have faith of a higher power, but question its historical identity and origin.
I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.
I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.
As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.
It shouldn't be necessary. At all. Any God worth his salt would say, "Dudes, what the fuck is up with the war and the rape and the murder, the starving children, the terrorism, and the poverty?? Get your shit together!"
The fact that God hasn't done so is proof. Proof that God doesn't exist, or proof that if God exists, God is shitty.
There's more options than that. Free will; the best and worst gift humans were given. If we wish to destroy ourselves, so be it. That's not proof or disproof of god.
Sounds like a weak attempt to sidestep God's responsibility. "It's all part of my infinite plan. Except if it sucks, then it's human free will. Oh yeah, concerning that, I'm giving you free will as an option to torture each other in every conceivable way, and I know you will use it to do just that. Not my fault, your the one with the free will."
Why should it be god's or any other higher beings responsibility to play puppet master? I think it's ridiculous for human beings to look at the atrocities that occur in our world and then use that as a reason to proclaim there is no god. That's sidestepping responsibility on our part. I don't see a god so it doesn't exist. Well, anyone here see an atom around them?
Think of it this way, you raise your children to be good responsible and kind individuals, but they still won't always make the right choice or do the right thing, even if you helicopter parent and then even less so. Is that god's fault because they are allowed free thought?
Imagine a god that didn't allow free will, everything you did or said was controlled and measured to an extent to achieve a certain result. Sounds a lot like a dictator, which no one here likes. I guess if we were mindless zombies then there would never be any issues, but you wouldn't know the difference because you wouldn't be allowed to think. Happiness would ensue worldwide.
Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation, but I think it's important to recognize that without happy we wouldn't know sad. Atrocity is a necessary evil that I wish upon no one, but it serves a purpose.
well, then why did he kill everyone except noah and all the animals that one time? i thought he was a live and let live type of deity.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
It shouldn't be necessary. At all. Any God worth his salt would say, "Dudes, what the fuck is up with the war and the rape and the murder, the starving children, the terrorism, and the poverty?? Get your shit together!"
The fact that God hasn't done so is proof. Proof that God doesn't exist, or proof that if God exists, God is shitty.
There's more options than that. Free will; the best and worst gift humans were given. If we wish to destroy ourselves, so be it. That's not proof or disproof of god.
Sounds like a weak attempt to sidestep God's responsibility. "It's all part of my infinite plan. Except if it sucks, then it's human free will. Oh yeah, concerning that, I'm giving you free will as an option to torture each other in every conceivable way, and I know you will use it to do just that. Not my fault, your the one with the free will."
Why should it be god's or any other higher beings responsibility to play puppet master? I think it's ridiculous for human beings to look at the atrocities that occur in our world and then use that as a reason to proclaim there is no god. That's sidestepping responsibility on our part. I don't see a god so it doesn't exist. Well, anyone here see an atom around them?
Think of it this way, you raise your children to be good responsible and kind individuals, but they still won't always make the right choice or do the right thing, even if you helicopter parent and then even less so. Is that god's fault because they are allowed free thought?
Imagine a god that didn't allow free will, everything you did or said was controlled and measured to an extent to achieve a certain result. Sounds a lot like a dictator, which no one here likes. I guess if we were mindless zombies then there would never be any issues, but you wouldn't know the difference because you wouldn't be allowed to think. Happiness would ensue worldwide.
Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation, but I think it's important to recognize that without happy we wouldn't know sad. Atrocity is a necessary evil that I wish upon no one, but it serves a purpose.
well, then why did he kill everyone except noah and all the animals that one time? i thought he was a live and let live type of deity.
I'm not a purveyor of the biblical story because I don't believe in any religion's god narrative; just that there is a higher being.
If we're taking about the Noah story, well we'd already been around for thousands of years, much longer than it has been since the proclaimed event in historical terms, so whose to say it can't happen again if that's a true story. Or we all go the way of the dinosaur. Either way I won't be there in my current incarnation so none of this will matter in the end. Life is infinite in some form or another and nothing we do will change that.
These terrible terrist attacks bring out the best & worst in people. There were homeless people near the venue that came out of the woodwork to help some of the victims. Wiping off blood, and pulling nails out of people, making tourniquets out of a piece of cloth or whatever piece of clothing they were wearing. There is a good spirit in some people that cannot be conquered.
These terrible terrist attacks bring out the best & worst in people. There were homeless people near the venue that came out of the woodwork to help some of the victims. Wiping off blood, and pulling nails out of people, making tourniquets out of a piece of cloth or whatever piece of clothing they were wearing. There is a good spirit in some people that cannot be conquered.
There is no magical man/woman (to be politically correct) in the sky that made them do these kind acts.
Courtesy of NRA TV - "The Manchester Bombing Happened Because of Gender Bending and Gun Control".
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,321
edited May 2017
We were watching an 1974 episode of Kojak last night, a great cop show from back in the day. The episode was about a serial bomber who was killing people in NYC. Those kinds of things really did happen 40 years ago. It got me to thinking how this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. They are horrible incidents but I have to ask, is giving them so much attention going to make them go away? In the Kojak show, one of the theories the cops discussed was the possibility of a copy cat killings. Those happened also and they often happened because of all the sensationalism surrounding them. Copy cat killers see these things and think about how infamous they TOO could be. What if these terrible acts were not given so much over-blown attention? Maybe there wouldn't be so many.
I've got a life to live. You have a life to live. We all do. Don't give it the haters what they want. Live.
Post edited by brianlux on
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not true, his father and one of his brothers have been detained by militia in Libya. Thus far all reports in UK and Ireland refer to the father as being a vocal opponent of ISIS
I wasn't saying it was the BBC that arrested them, that would be ridiculous.
Do you really believe I thought that's what you were suggesting? My point is that rather than being arrested by law-enforcement or security services in Britain as part of their investigation, he has been detained by militia forces in Libya. There is still nothing to suggest that the people investigating the attack believe he had anything to do with it
We were watching an 1974 episode of Kojak last night, a great cop show from back in the day. The episode was about a serial bomber who was killing people in NYC. Those kinds of things really did happen 40 years ago. It got me to thinking how this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. They are horrible incidents but I have to ask, is giving them so much attention going to make them go away? In the Kojak show, one of the theories the cops discussed was the possibility of a copy cat killings. Those happened also and they often happened because of all the sensationalism surrounding them. Copy cat killers see these things and think about how infamous they TOO could be. What if these terrible acts were not given so much over-blown attention? Maybe there wouldn't be so many.
I've got a life to live. You have a life to live. We all do. Don't give it the haters what they want. Live.
@brianlux good point. Remember the IRA bombings that were happening in Ireland all the time? Do you know why they stopped?
The IRA didn't want to be seen in the same light as middle eastern terrorists.
Even the Mafia stopped bombing judges in Italy around the same time.
No magical person in the sky, correct. Spirit can be defined as the intellect of one's soul. You sure can see the difference between good and evil. People who slaughter & people like these few homeless people who will give someone one of the only shirts they have, and try to maybe save a life with it.(tourniquet). Try to stabilize & keep calm victims till help can get to them.
We were watching an 1974 episode of Kojak last night, a great cop show from back in the day. The episode was about a serial bomber who was killing people in NYC. Those kinds of things really did happen 40 years ago. It got me to thinking how this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. They are horrible incidents but I have to ask, is giving them so much attention going to make them go away? In the Kojak show, one of the theories the cops discussed was the possibility of a copy cat killings. Those happened also and they often happened because of all the sensationalism surrounding them. Copy cat killers see these things and think about how infamous they TOO could be. What if these terrible acts were not given so much over-blown attention? Maybe there wouldn't be so many.
I've got a life to live. You have a life to live. We all do. Don't give it the haters what they want. Live.
@brianlux good point. Remember the IRA bombings that were happening in Ireland all the time? Do you know why they stopped?
The IRA didn't want to be seen in the same light as middle eastern terrorists.
Even the Mafia stopped bombing judges in Italy around the same time.
Maybe we can have change.
There have always been and, I'm sure, will always be, people who perform acts of terrorism to try to advance their political or social goals. Hell, we even had the hard core environmentalists in the '70s. Though I don't want to seem like I'm trivializing it, they're almost like fads - one group/cause is active for a while, then it dies down, and another group is active. That's part of the reason I never assume that bombings these days are due to Muslim terrorists - because some day it won't be, it'll be someone else.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
there's no such thing as a terrorist sympathizer. that's just right wing nutty buzzwords. and no one is denying that radical islam exists.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
there's no such thing as a terrorist sympathizer. that's just right wing nutty buzzwords. and no one is denying that radical islam exists.
And to be clear, it may not have been a truck, but a crazy man just ran over a bunch of people in NYC. Maybe he was influenced by what he had seen in Germany though.
I think many naturally gravitate to blaming ISIS for these incidents as soon as they happen, but that's more common in this current state of the world. It isn't always true and should never be the automatic ruling before all the facts are obtained.
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
there's no such thing as a terrorist sympathizer. that's just right wing nutty buzzwords. and no one is denying that radical islam exists.
And to be clear, it may not have been a truck, but a crazy man just ran over a bunch of people in NYC. Maybe he was influenced by what he had seen in Germany though.
I think many naturally gravitate to blaming ISIS for these incidents as soon as they happen, but that's more common in this current state of the world. It isn't always true and should never be the automatic ruling before all the facts are obtained.
yes, none of us are surprised when it happens to be ISIS or an ISIS supporter, but kneejerk is never the best reaction. people have stopped waiting for actual facts, because news agencies just want to be first with a correct guess rather than real vetted factual info.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,321
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
I'm half Amish. I strongly advise you to keep an eye out for me because, yes, I'm half out of control. But just one eye. Like I said, I'm only half.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.
I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.
As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.
True. Also, God or any random higher being one might imagine can blow jelly beans out of volcanoes and make it rain trumpets, but can't thread a golden needle with the hair of all mankind. In other words, literally anything can be said about God/a higher being - I don't see how any statement is more valid than another when it is all completely made up out of thin air.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No magical person in the sky, correct. Spirit can be defined as the intellect of one's soul. You sure can see the difference between good and evil. People who slaughter & people like these few homeless people who will give someone one of the only shirts they have, and try to maybe save a life with it.(tourniquet). Try to stabilize & keep calm victims till help can get to them.
It's stories like this that come out that helps me feel that's there still some hope for humanity...
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.
I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.
As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.
True. Also, God or any random higher being one might imagine can blow jelly beans out of volcanoes and make it rain trumpets, but can't thread a golden needle with the hair of all mankind. In other words, literally anything can be said about God/a higher being - I don't see how any statement is more valid than another when it is all completely made up out of thin air.
watching the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode "The Genesis Tub" put alot of this in perspective.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I was just referring to the coment about this being the current trend, or a fad. The environmentalist of the 70s comparison. Also trending nowadays is the distressed jeans look pre ripped jeans. Denying terrorism for what it is right here and right now is ridiculous.
Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more? What were his motives? Where did he just get back from? Who is his dad & brother affiliated with? Never assume that it is Radical terrists? They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs? Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control. Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
Who's sympathizing and denying?
Are you saying religion is at the root of these crimes?
Comments
If god is omnipotent can he create a stone that he cannot lift?
As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.
-EV 8/14/93
Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation? What did you think would happen?
If we're taking about the Noah story, well we'd already been around for thousands of years, much longer than it has been since the proclaimed event in historical terms, so whose to say it can't happen again if that's a true story. Or we all go the way of the dinosaur. Either way I won't be there in my current incarnation so none of this will matter in the end. Life is infinite in some form or another and nothing we do will change that.
There were homeless people near the venue that came out of the woodwork to help some of the victims. Wiping off blood, and pulling nails out of people, making tourniquets out of a piece of cloth or whatever piece of clothing they were wearing. There is a good spirit in some people that cannot be conquered.
There is no magical man/woman (to be politically correct) in the sky that made them do these kind acts.
http://www.salon.com/2017/05/24/nra-tv-says-the-manchester-bombing-happened-because-of-gender-bending-and-gun-control/
Courtesy of NRA TV - "The Manchester Bombing Happened Because of Gender Bending and Gun Control".
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either.
I've got a life to live. You have a life to live. We all do. Don't give it the haters what they want. Live.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
detained/arrested/potato
Father and brother of Manchester bomber arrested in Libya
i hate the new quoting system so much
Do you really believe I thought that's what you were suggesting? My point is that rather than being arrested by law-enforcement or security services in Britain as part of their investigation, he has been detained by militia forces in Libya. There is still nothing to suggest that the people investigating the attack believe he had anything to do with it
The IRA didn't want to be seen in the same light as middle eastern terrorists.
Even the Mafia stopped bombing judges in Italy around the same time.
Maybe we can have change.
From what I can recall, they stopped because of the heat they drew.
Spirit can be defined as the intellect of one's soul.
You sure can see the difference between good and evil. People who slaughter & people like these few homeless people who will give someone one of the only shirts they have, and try to maybe save a life with it.(tourniquet). Try to stabilize & keep calm victims till help can get to them.
There have always been and, I'm sure, will always be, people who perform acts of terrorism to try to advance their political or social goals. Hell, we even had the hard core environmentalists in the '70s. Though I don't want to seem like I'm trivializing it, they're almost like fads - one group/cause is active for a while, then it dies down, and another group is active. That's part of the reason I never assume that bombings these days are due to Muslim terrorists - because some day it won't be, it'll be someone else.
Never assume that it is Radical terrists?
They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs?
Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them. There out of control.
Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.
-EV 8/14/93
I think many naturally gravitate to blaming ISIS for these incidents as soon as they happen, but that's more common in this current state of the world. It isn't always true and should never be the automatic ruling before all the facts are obtained.
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-EV 8/14/93
The environmentalist of the 70s comparison. Also trending nowadays is the distressed jeans look pre ripped jeans. Denying terrorism for what it is right here and right now is ridiculous.