Multiple Fatalities- Ariana Grande Concert

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,552
    unsung said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    unsung said:
    Quick...change your facebook profile pics, that'll solve it.
    so tell us, how do you solve it?
    Stop importing them.  This person waited for children to be released from inside according to witnesses.  Children.

    Stop being lovey dovey over people that wish to do us harm.
    so cease all immigration? do we know yet where these perps came from? what if they were born in Britain? what then? get rid of all of "them"?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,707
    edited May 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    pjhawks said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    pjhawks said:
    wtf can you some of you people let the bodies be removed from the scene before your start politicizing it or getting on your damn soap box. don't the victims at least deserve that? 
    a terrorist bombing is politicized in its execution. how long should we wait before we are allowed to talk about it frankly? should we remove our hats too?
    what part of until at least the bodies are removed did you not understand?  i guess i shouldn't be surprised that the same people who don't have enough respect to remove their hat during an anthem don't have enough respect for victims of a tragedy a few hours after the fact. 


    I generally don't wear hats except at the beach (balding). But when I'm at a sporting event, I remove my hat during the anthem. Never said I didn't. 

    I'm not keeping track of when the bodies were removed, but if I I were, how does talking about the tragedy disrespect the victims in any way, exactly? And how long is the alloted amount of time before we can speak about it? I'm not sure, i was never given the handbook. 

    Should world leaders also adhere to this rule? If so, you'd better start writing some letters. 
    It doesn't, and I personally think that all this bullshit scolding I'm seeing all over the internet from people who think they have the market cornered on how to deal with large scale tragedies is one of the most annoying things on the internet. Who in the fuck are they to tell other what they should and shouldn't say in the face of tragedy, beyond the truly distasteful shit, like making fun of the victims or whatever? IMO, it is never too soon to discuss ALL details of a terrorist attack and the aftermath. If anything, it's stupid not to.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dmaradona10
    dmaradona10 Posts: 915
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    Las Cruces, NM Pan Am Center September 14, 1995
    Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
    New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
    Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
    Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
    LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
    Denver 10-22-14
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    pjhawks said:
    my2hands said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    rgambs said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Go Beavers said:
    Jason P said:
    So it's possible that a few committed people planned in advance (most fucked up part) and decided to blow themselves up at an Ariana Grande concert in front of a bunch of little girls ... 

    Religious leaders need to step up and LEAD sooner then later.  To bad that there is a lack of education, maybe suppression is the better term
    It's not a religious issue. 
    Yeah, sure.
    it's only a religious issue when it's the 'wrong' religion

    can someone remind me what Freddie Mercury did?
    You don't know what you are talking about. For example:

    Breivik was a nationalist who targeted political children because of their party's lenient immigration policies- allowing Muslims Norway citizenship.

    McVeigh was anti government.

    These people are just as shitty as the brainwashed Islamic idiot that blew up children at the concert last night, but their motivations are not the same. Stop apologizing for Islam- albeit a bastardized form of it.
    It is true that there is no group out there that compares to the radical terrorism that's coming out of Muslim regions, but this was a ham handed attempt to point out that there is a definite disparity in the way violence is regarded by the West.
    Violence perpetrated by Islamic terrorists is given so much more attention, so much more anger and hatred.
    It's fucked up that we bomb and kill their innocent kids and nobody gives a shit, but people lose their minds when much smaller numbers of white people become victims.
    Unfortunately this is why this will keep on happening.

    I met Iraqi's that still HATED Iranians because they lost a brother, cousin or relative during the war.  They still hold animosity towards the whole country.


    meanwhile, back in La-La Land North America we sip our latte's and obsess with celebrity while remaining ignorantly bliss to the damage being caused by our ignorance and tax dollars half a world away... for decades now


    we meddle in their affairs... we support brutal oppresive leadership when it favors us... we invade their countries... we bomb their neighborhoods and homes... we slaughter innocents by the hundreds of thousands, shrugging it off as collateral damage... we put video cameras in the tip of missiles and show it hitting its target to the world on TV... we gloat about "Shock & Awe" as the missiles rain down... all while we chant U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!


    these are not excuses for these type of events... but its pretty obvious that we have been an oppressive/destructive force in the region and frankly started this war decades ago, and now they are taking the war to our city streets instead of their own... why should we be shocked?

    i didn't realize England was part of the US.. when did that happen?


    as an American I speak about America's role and what I see here... but frankly we are all rolled into one large enemy, "The West", which represents a long standing coalition of western "advanced" countries that have supported Israel and various misadventures in the Middle East.... you think America is the 1st global empire that stepped on toes? ever hear of British Petroleum? lol... England has had a long standing history of meddling in the middle east and supporting American (The West) efforts/interventions/invasions... British soldiers went into Iraq... they went in Afghanistan... intelligence services... special forces... the whole shebang... paging Tony Blair


    again, this doesn't excuse it or explain all of it... but we have NO SHOT of making real long term progress if the citizens of the West are not prepared to be honest about our long standing role in that region and the horrific misdeeds that occurred... all this shit didn't just come out of nowhere...

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,707
    edited May 2017
    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    Well that is quite the passive aggressive statement against feminists.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dmaradona10
    dmaradona10 Posts: 915
    PJ_Soul said:
    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    Well that is quite the passive aggressive statement against feminists.
    More aggressive than passive.  Point is, they won't.
    Las Cruces, NM Pan Am Center September 14, 1995
    Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
    New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
    Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
    Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
    LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
    Denver 10-22-14
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??

    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    That's a good question, I was wondering that myself.

    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??

    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??

    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Go Beavers said:
    Jason P said:
    So it's possible that a few committed people planned in advance (most fucked up part) and decided to blow themselves up at an Ariana Grande concert in front of a bunch of little girls ... 

    Religious leaders need to step up and LEAD sooner then later.  To bad that there is a lack of education, maybe suppression is the better term
    It's not a religious issue. 
    Yeah, sure.
    it's only a religious issue when it's the 'wrong' religion

    can someone remind me what Freddie Mercury did?
    You don't know what you are talking about. For example:

    Breivik was a nationalist who targeted political children because of their party's lenient immigration policies- allowing Muslims Norway citizenship.

    McVeigh was anti government.

    These people are just as shitty as the brainwashed Islamic idiot that blew up children at the concert last night, but their motivations are not the same. Stop apologizing for Islam- albeit a bastardized form of it.
    It is true that there is no group out there that compares to the radical terrorism that's coming out of Muslim regions, but this was a ham handed attempt to point out that there is a definite disparity in the way violence is regarded by the West.
    Violence perpetrated by Islamic terrorists is given so much more attention, so much more anger and hatred.
    It's fucked up that we bomb and kill their innocent kids and nobody gives a shit, but people lose their minds when much smaller numbers of white people become victims.
    I see this conversation in pretty much every terrorist attack, with the same responses.
    I see a difference in that more often Islamic terrorists do this in the name of their religion. Other home terrorists have other motivation (anti-government for one) who happen to be Christian.
    Obviously only very few Muslims supports these acts, and there have been some Christians who have committed horrible crimes claiming they were doing God's work. But I think it answers the questions as to why so many jump to the conclusion it was a Muslim terrorists and is viewed differently in the west. What I can't figure out is why so many seem like they defend it? When a guys kills 50 people yelling "Alah Akbar" people still try to say it wasn't related to radical Islam, and bring up McVeigh as a counter. One of the first posts in this thread seemed like an attempt to defend radical islam. In the last 10 years, how many mass murders were motivated by the Christian faith and acting on behalf of a Christian organization (and not just done by a Christian) and how many were done in the name is Islam? I dont think that number is even.

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,707
    edited May 2017
    dmaradona10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    Well that is quite the passive aggressive statement against feminists.
    More aggressive than passive.  Point is, they won't.
    So you're literally making no point at all. Got it. Well, except maybe the point that you're a chauvinist.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,552
    nobody is defending radical anything. the point of bringing up the christian ones is this: there are radicals of all faiths. we don't paint all christians like the despicable westboro baptists (yes, I'm aware they haven't killed anyone), so why paint all muslims as terrorists? because their radicals are worse than "our" radicals? that's preposterous. people make comments in jest "but I thought it was a religion of peace". All religions can be bastardized to fit one's agenda. it's that simple. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,837
    edited May 2017
    Almost no one has painted all muslims as terrorists. in fact, I see more anti-Christian comments on this forum than any other religion.
    Maybe my interpretation is wrong, but it comes across to me as defensive when in nearly every terrorist attack many hesitate, or even refuse to call it islamic terrorism. The Orlando shooting I remember reading comments on here saying it had nothing to do with Islam, but was anti-gay, even though he clearly had ties to radical Islam. It only took 2 or 3 posts on this topic before more than 1 person was saying don't blame radical Islam. I interpret someone saying don't blame an organization who is clearly at fault in the majority of these cases as defending them, and it is typically those seem people who decide to switch the blame to Christians and point out ever awful deed someone did who identified as Christian. There's a reason why any time you hear of a bomb in a train, bus, school or arena the majority automatically connect it to radical Islam. Although I'm sure there are more, I can only think of 1 or 2 major events in the last 20 years that killed dozens of people that wasn't tied to radical Islam.
    Now I'm not in the boat that says we can't solve this problem unless you call it what it is. I just don't understand why every time something does happen there seem to be those who chose to defend radical Islam (and not acknowledging it is defending it in my opinion) and pin Christianity as a bigger terrorist threat by pointing out 2 or 3 cases in the last 30 years where an offender happened to be Christian.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    PJ_Soul said:
    dmaradona10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    dmaradona10 said:
    Make no mistake, this was an attack targeting UK female teenagers. When will the Feminists come out and protest with their pink pussy hats??
    Well that is quite the passive aggressive statement against feminists.
    More aggressive than passive.  Point is, they won't.
    So you're literally making no point at all. Got it. Well, except maybe the point that you're a chauvinist.

    yeah, total fail
  • riley540
    riley540 Denver Colorado Posts: 1,132
    There are bad people from all walks of life. But it is important to note that ISIS is a radical Islamic group and they are responsible for what happened and they are a group growing at a dangerous rate. They are very bad people with a twisted view on what is right. I'm not denying the existence of other radical people, but I'm saying that this was ISIS and they are prominent. 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,552
    mace1229 said:
    Almost no one has painted all muslims as terrorists. in fact, I see more anti-Christian comments on this forum than any other religion.
    Maybe by interpretation is wrong, but it comes across to me as defensive when in nearly every terrorist attack many hesitate, or even refuse to call it islamic terrorism. The Orlando shooting I remember reading comments on here saying it had nothing to do with Islam, but was anti-gay, even though he clearly had ties to radical Islam. It only took 2 or 3 posts on this topic before more than 1 person was saying don't blame radical Islam. I interpret someone saying don't blame an organization who is clearly at fault in the majority of these cases as defending them, and it is typically those seem people who decide to switch the blame to Christians and point out ever awful deed someone did who identified as Christian. There's a reason why any time you hear of a bomb in a train, bus, school or arena the majority automatically connect it to radical Islam. Although I'm sure there are more, I can only think of 1 or 2 major events in the last 20 years that killed dozens of people that wasn't tied to radical Islam.
    Now I'm not in the boat that says we can't solve this problem unless you call it what it is. I just don't understand why every time something does happen there seem to be those who chose to defend radical Islam (and not acknowledging it is defending it in my opinion) and pin Christianity as a bigger terrorist threat by pointing out 2 or 3 cases in the last 30 years where an offender happened to be Christian.
    first, no one, EVER, has defended radical islam. they have only defended islam. there is a difference. people merely state that calling it radical islam paints the picture to the ignorant that islam is to blame, when it is clearly not. radicalization in any form is to blame. are there oppressive and bad parts of the faith? yep. when people come back with "well so does christianity", it's not to deflect, but in an attempt to open the eyes to the hypocrisy. there are MANY things that are said in the bible that are ABHORENT. MOST christians don't practice them anymore. some do, but most don't. some practice the oppressive portions of islam. most don't. but the perception is still there that islam is evil. 

    second, many people on this forum (many have been banned) have stated very clearly their anti-islamic stances. 

    third, yes, there is anti-christian sentiment on this forum, but usually only as a retort to being confronted with some type of nonsensical judgement by a christian. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • riley540
    riley540 Denver Colorado Posts: 1,132
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,707
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Exactly. For the record, I hate all religions equally, and my feelings about religious people are formed on a case-by-case basis. Obviously the fanatical terrorists or violent folks are at the top of "I hate them" list, followed by the non-violent fanatics.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • riley540
    riley540 Denver Colorado Posts: 1,132
    I think the religious texts are all pretty fucked. But most Christian people deny the shifty stuff. Lots of good charity work done from all religions which I appreciate. Just can't get into the cultu judgey thing. 

    I used to attend a baptist church that was pretty nutty, but the amount of work they did for less fortunate people locally and globally was outstanding. So I can't dog them too hard. Great people stuck in some old school beliefs. 
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,426
    CM189191 said:
    riley540 said:
    Why do we all act like Islam is a good thing? Have you seen how women in Islamic communities are treated? And homosexuals? Sure, believe what you want, but don't put down others. Women can't even show their faces or have any standing in society. :( it's not a good religion. Sorry, just being honest. And I'm not defending Christianity. 
    Why do we act like religion is good thing?  There are no good religions.
    Speaking as an informal religious (not a traditional church follower) person, but a very strong higher being believer, I still would argue that saying there is no good religion is generalizing the true issue. Religion can be a good thing for those looking to form a community and connection with others and it can be a bad thing when it creates a narrow minded view of the world and the "my god is the only god" type of thinking. My family grew up Lutheran, but my wife and I don't practice any formal religion. When we celebrate holidays or life events, we honor the earth and give thanks for what we have been provided, but not to a specific god. We teach our children about the different gods and religions, but in no way practice any faith or participate in holy ceremonies. It's important they understand how different people choose to worship and someday they can make their own decision. I think my childhood of Sunday school and church every week did give me a good foundation and a respect, but there are other ways to incorporate that in to your life. It just so happened that was how my family chose to do it and then I chose my way.

    That being said, any religion, custom, practice, etc. that promotes inequality, separation and a hierarchy of superiority based on gender, race, background or any other criteria is not good.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,707
    riley540 said:
    I think the religious texts are all pretty fucked. But most Christian people deny the shifty stuff. Lots of good charity work done from all religions which I appreciate. Just can't get into the cultu judgey thing. 

    I used to attend a baptist church that was pretty nutty, but the amount of work they did for less fortunate people locally and globally was outstanding. So I can't dog them too hard. Great people stuck in some old school beliefs. 
    You don't need religion to do those good things though. Atheists do good work for the less fortunate too. Religion is bullshit, and I think attributing good acts to the existence of religion is like saying all of those people wouldn't help anyone if it weren't for their Church. Well, if that's true, they are actually jerks.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,585
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go Beavers said:
    Jason P said:
    So it's possible that a few committed people planned in advance (most fucked up part) and decided to blow themselves up at an Ariana Grande concert in front of a bunch of little girls ... 

    Religious leaders need to step up and LEAD sooner then later.  To bad that there is a lack of education, maybe suppression is the better term
    It's not a religious issue. 
    I disagree with that. Why do you think it's not a religious issue? As far as the terrorists are concerned, however fucked up in their fanatical beliefs, it is very much a religious issue.
    Because it's no longer Islam at that point. The same way people will say someone isn't following Christianity when they personally are motivated to kill by what they believe is Christianity. 

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