Taking Offense - Has It Gone Off The Rails?

InHiding80 · April 2017

The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.

InHiding80 · April 2017

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/

It's all about context. Hell, Mel Brooks played a Nazi in To Be Or Not To Be and he's Jewish!

jeffbr · April 2017

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.

Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.

oftenreading · April 2017

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.

American universities, you mean.

jeffbr · April 2017

InHiding80 said:

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
It's all about context. Hell, Mel Brooks played a Nazi in To Be Or Not To Be and he's Jewish!

Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.

oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
American universities, you mean.

Absolutely.

hedonist · April 2017

jeffbr said:

Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.

Nor would Norman Lear, with All in the Family.

jeffbr · April 2017

hedonist said:

jeffbr said:

Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.
Nor would Norman Lear, with All in the Family.

Exactly! I grew up watching both Brooks and Lear, and All in the Family was one of the few shows my dad watched. I think I was 9 or 10 when the show first aired, and at that age I took everything literally, but after a few episodes, and some explanations from my dad, I understood the premise of the show. And CBS got plenty of complaints and hate mail about the show, but instead of kowtowing to the oversensitive busy-bodies who were complaining about it, they forged ahead and created one of the most watched and appreciated shows of that era.

CM189191 · April 2017

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
It's all about context. Hell, Mel Brooks played a Nazi in To Be Or Not To Be and he's Jewish!
Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.
oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
American universities, you mean.
Absolutely.

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/

I really encourage everyone to watch this. Mel Brooks speaks to this very topic.

He explains: Tragedy + time = comedy

People at the time took offense to jokes about racism, nazis, etc., because they were still relatively recent events.

This was totally acceptable to be funny because it had happened hundreds or years before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZegQYgygdw

unsung · April 2017

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.

I think you meant white guilt.

jeffbr · April 2017

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
It's all about context. Hell, Mel Brooks played a Nazi in To Be Or Not To Be and he's Jewish!
Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.
oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
American universities, you mean.
Absolutely.

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
I really encourage everyone to watch this. Mel Brooks speaks to this very topic.

He explains: Tragedy + time = comedy

People at the time took offense to jokes about racism, nazis, etc., because they were still relatively recent events.

This was totally acceptable to be funny because it had happened hundreds or years before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZegQYgygdw

Awesome. Thanks for the link to the documentary. I haven't watched it yet, but will try to find time this week.

Go Beavers · April 2017

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.
I think you meant white guilt.

White guilt is another bogus one that righties use to deny racism.

PJ_Soul · April 2017

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.

That isn't my experience, having worked at a university for 15+ years (and having attended one too). At least at my university, free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas is still a priority. Yes, it's careful about actual sexual harassment issues and stuff like that, but is very conscientious about making sure that nobody's freedom of expression is impinged upon. It does not do anything that is hypersensitive and does not suppress speech. Not ever. If anyone tries to, the university specifically takes a stand against that.

Go Beavers · April 2017

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.

Are they really that way, or are you taking anecdotal stories of events that also occurred before the internet, but you didn't hear about them? The movie that spoofed this, PCU, was made when GenXers were in college.

unsung · April 2017

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.
I think you meant white guilt.
White guild is another bogus one that righties use to deny racism.

Nah, it is a term liberals use to play the victim card.

Go Beavers · April 2017

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.
I think you meant white guilt.
White guild is another bogus one that righties use to deny racism.
Nah, it is a term liberals use to play the victim card.

You're saying that liberals refer to themselves as having "white guilt" when talking about racism? Haven't seen that.

HughFreakingDillon · April 2017

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.
I think you meant white guilt.
White guild is another bogus one that righties use to deny racism.
Nah, it is a term liberals use to play the victim card.

pretty sure I've only ever heard it used (outside of published papers on the subject) by conservatives to insult liberals.

dignin · April 2017

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:
I have heard many new terms this past year.

Micro aggressions
Safe space

Those two are the most ridiculous.
The worst one I heard was white genocide.
I think you meant white guilt.
White guild is another bogus one that righties use to deny racism.
Nah, it is a term liberals use to play the victim card.

I think you are confused.

jeffbr · April 2017

Go Beavers said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
Are they really that way, or are you taking anecdotal stories of events that also occurred before the internet, but you didn't hear about them? The movie that spoofed this, PCU, was made when GenXers were in college.

That's a valid and interesting question. I am certainly hearing about on-campus anti-speech demonstrations with more frequency these days, but perhaps that is accounted for by freer access to information.
I do find this Guide to Colleges: Top 150 Universities in the US to be an interesting view into free speech and intellectual diversity on campus. It would be interesting to see how these rankings and numbers have changed over time, but unfortunately we only get a current snapshot.

jeffbr · April 2017

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
That isn't my experience, having worked at a university for 15+ years (and having attended one too). At least at my university, free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas is still a priority. Yes, it's careful about actual sexual harassment issues and stuff like that, but is very conscientious about making sure that nobody's freedom of expression is impinged upon. It does not do anything that is hypersensitive and does not suppress speech. Not ever. If anyone tries to, the university specifically takes a stand against that.

That's awesome! I know my statement was a generalized observation of US universities based on stories and reports I've read. I also know that there are universities in the US that, like your university in BC, value diversity of thought and opinion. I hope to read about more schools pushing back against speech and thought suppression. Universities are precisely where ideas should be freely explored and debated without fear of reprisal.

CM189191 · April 2017

jeffbr said:

CM189191 said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
It's all about context. Hell, Mel Brooks played a Nazi in To Be Or Not To Be and he's Jewish!
Mel Brooks wouldn't be able to make movies in this day and age. Between that Nazi scene, and Cleavon Little's line in Blazing Saddles, those films intentionally challenged us, made us a little uncomfortable, but also were funny as hell. But we're beyond the point where those films would be acceptable today. There would be boycotts, apologies from actors and studios, and probably even demonstrations. Oh, well. Speech was fun while it lasted.
oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

InHiding80 said:
The problem is that the left is too pc and the right is too extremist pic. You can be pic without being a Nazi fascist alt right punk and be a civilized person without being a humorless whiny baby. I prefer my anti alt right in the mold of old school r rated humor like Carlin, not today's neolibs.
Agreed!

And universities, once the bastion of free speech and the exploration and free exchange of ideas, have now turned into hyper-sensitive institutions that suppress speech and focus on ensuring that nobody is exposed to anything that may slightly offend even the most sensitive millennial college student. Micro aggressions and triggers everywhere! Professors being reprimanded for challenging ideas, speakers uninvited if anyone makes noise. Idiot college students will unfortunately remain idiots if they are not able to deal with counter-opinions. I'm not sure how they'll even survive the real world outside of the emotional safe space they attempt to create on campus.
American universities, you mean.
Absolutely.

CM189191 said:
PBS had a good documentary on last night about whether people are allowed to joke about the Holocaust.

Pretty interesting perspective: http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/last-laugh/
I really encourage everyone to watch this. Mel Brooks speaks to this very topic.

He explains: Tragedy + time = comedy

People at the time took offense to jokes about racism, nazis, etc., because they were still relatively recent events.

This was totally acceptable to be funny because it had happened hundreds or years before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZegQYgygdw
Awesome. Thanks for the link to the documentary. I haven't watched it yet, but will try to find time this week.

There are some really funny parts. And some very not funny parts.
I started watching thinking it would put me to sleep and couldn't stop. Enjoy and let me know what you thought.

Taking Offense - Has It Gone Off The Rails?

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