Taking Offense - Has It Gone Off The Rails?

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Screw political correctness.
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,433

    jeffbr said:

    unsung said:

    Here is another...

    Cultural Appropriation.

    and you don't like that term because....?
    It isn't the term I dislike, it is the concept that we can't appreciate and embrace things from other cultures for fear of retribution. In the last couple of years I keep reading articles about what Halloween costumes are inappropriate due to cultural appropriation. Also, apparently:
    white girls can't wear braids now - http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/03/hampshire_college_student_face.html
    And gods forbid they wear hoop earrings - http://claremontindependent.com/pitzer-college-ra-white-people-cant-wear-hoop-earrings/
    White dudes shouldn't have dreads or matted hair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8
    Don't use the term Sweat Lodge with your yoga studio: http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20170110/anderson-feud-over-native-american-culture
    In fact, white people probably shouldn't be doing yoga at all: http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/20/free-ottawa-yoga-class-scrapped-over-cultural-issues

    These are just a few of the examples of why I think the notion that cultural appropriation is wrong or bad is bullshit. In fact, cultural appropriation is what has happened for centuries and every culture is the result of some sort of cultural appropriation. You can find it in art, in food, in music, in architecture, in clothing styles, etc... It isn't a bad thing, but these days it is treated as a some sort of sin.
    ok, those are some pretty ridiculous examples. I agree, that is taking it a bit over the edge. unfortunately, many liberal "agendas" take on a ridiculous form when released out into the public consciousness. people don't know when to quit sometimes.

    there is nothing wrong, in my eyes, as you said, appreciating and embracing other cultures and their traditions; it becomes a problem when it crosses over into mockery, like dressing up as an "indian" for halloween, or blackface, for instance. it seemed harmless to me as a kid, as it did my parents, which is why they find all of this particularly ridiculous, but I see now how it could be harmful to those from that culture and celebrate it.

    I really don't think it's right to keep sports team names that make caricatures out of cultures. I'm shocked there has yet to be any outrage over the CFL team name Edmonton Eskimos; it is not only considered a derogatory term nowadays, but it's another example of making a culture a cartoon character.

    Imagine if a team of black people called themselves the Haitian Honkies, and dressed up as white hillbillies with banjos. I'm sure there'd be comparable outrage.
    I'm not too keen on the sports teams being forced to change their names & logos. Every sports team logo is a caricature regardless of what it is. Granted, there are a few cases I could see where people get upset because of racial slurs being used (e.g. Washington Redskins) but for the most part, I don't really see why anyone should have a problem with 99.9% of sports team names and logos.

    The University of North Dakota was forced to change their name from Fighting Sioux to Fighting Hawks. They were actually endorsed by the Sioux Tribe of North Dakota, the very people their athletic teams were named after. The Sioux tribe even testified on their behalf and called the NCAA a bunch of racists for not allowing them to continue with the name. There was one recent year (before the name change) that the NCAA told their men's hockey team they could not wear sweaters that bore the Sioux name during the Frozen Four or they would forfeit their games. That's absolutely absurd!

    Florida State University goes through the same pressure every couple years that North Dakota endured. They, like UND, are endorsed by the Seminole Tribe of Florida who has also testified on the school's behalf in front of the NCAA.

    I'm not too informed on the matter, but how would someone see the term Eskimo having pejorative meaning? Are the Eskimo not an indigenous people to Siberia, Alaska, Canada, Greenland? I'd like to know more on this, honestly. I know there are the Inuit and Yupik peoples, but isn't Eskimo inclusive to both?

    It starts getting into dangerous territory when you make people rename things that are named in honor of a people or peoples. The problem herein with renaming sports teams is if we're going to do that, we have to rename most of the states in the US and provinces/territories in Canada, about 30% of our cities, almost every river, a bunch of mountains and ranges, and thousands of other landmarks & institutions. It's ridiculous.
    I had heard about the Fighting Sioux issue, but did not hear that the tribe itself was fine with the name. interesting.

    there is no issue, as far as I am aware, with naming things in honour of people, like streets, cities, etc. It's when it becomes a mockery, or perceived mockery, cartoonery, caricature, etc. like when you have a mascot of a baseball team that encourages the fans to "chop" the air in a scalping motion.

    here is the reason some find Eskimo to no longer be the appropriate term:

    Inuit or Eskimo: Which name to use?

    by Lawrence Kaplan

    Although the name "Eskimo" is commonly used in Alaska to refer to all Inuit and Yupik people of the world, this name is considered derogatory in many other places because it was given by non-Inuit people and was said to mean "eater of raw meat."

    Linguists now believe that "Eskimo" is derived from an Ojibwa word meaning "to net snowshoes." However, the people of Canada and Greenland prefer other names. "Inuit," meaning "people," is used in most of Canada, and the language is called "Inuktitut" in eastern Canada although other local designations are used also. The Inuit people of Greenland refer to themselves as "Greenlanders" or "Kalaallit" in their language, which they call "Greenlandic" or "Kalaallisut."

    Most Alaskans continue to accept the name "Eskimo," particularly because "Inuit" refers only to the Inupiat of northern Alaska, the Inuit of Canada, and the Kalaallit of Greenland, and it is not a word in the Yupik languages of Alaska and Siberia.


    however, as you can see, it's not across the board. So I guess that's why the little-to-no outrage.

    yet.
    Great info, much appreciated. As the line goes in Into the Wild, everything by its right name. I can definitely understand people wanting to be referred to correctly.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,053
    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    Please make sure you have consent first.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,857
    edited April 2017
    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    if there ever was a predictable response to anything on AMT, ever, it is this.
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

    Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

    You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

    I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

    -Neil Gaiman
  • CM189191 said:

    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

    Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

    You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

    I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

    -Neil Gaiman
    excellent post.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • now, to @unsung end, this is a perfect example of political correctness has gone off the rails:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/04/27/manitoba-licence-plate_n_16303128.html

    Manitoba Revokes 'Star Trek' Licence Plate Deemed Offensive

    WINNIPEG — Manitoba Public Insurance has revoked a Star Trek fan's personalized licence plate after receiving complaints that its message — ASIMIL8 — is offensive to indigenous people.

    Nick Troller has been driving around with the plate for two years.

    It's held within a Star Trek licence frame that also bears the quotes, "We are the Borg," and "Resistance is Futile."

    Troller tells CTV Winnipeg that on his favourite show, an enemy race of aliens called the Borg travel through the galaxy trying to assimilate other cultures into their own.


    He says he thought the plate was funny and notes strangers and other Trek fans have complimented him and asked to take photos with the plate.

    But Troller got a phone call Wednesday from a staff member at Manitoba Public Insurance who told him two people had complained that the word "assimilate" is offensive to indigenous people.

    He also received a letter from MPI on Thursday demanding he "surrender" the plate immediately, telling him he can either get a new plate or a refund on the $100 charge.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."
    "But that's not the point," says Troller. "We've become way too sensitive. You can't say anything anymore to anybody."

    Ry Moran, from the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, insists the word "assimilate" is too offensive to be on a licence plate.

    "For basically the entirety of this country's history, indigenous peoples have been forcibly assimilated through really extremely destructive means and ways," he says.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."

    MPI's policy states that "plates cannot contain a slogan that could be considered offensive." MPI says it takes such complaints "very seriously" and will investigate why the plate was approved in the first place.

    Licence plates are property of the Crown and there is no appeal process.


    Troller's situation is reminiscent of a controversy in Nova Scotia, where a man named Lorne Grabher's personalized GRABHER plate was revoked after a complaint that it was offensive to women.

    The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms said earlier this month that it plans to sue the Nova Scotia government over the revocation, which it sees as an infringement on freedom of expression.

    The JCCF's John Carpay said the GRABHER licence plate revocation is part of a wider trend in Canadian society.

    "Canadians are becoming increasingly less tolerant of free expression," he said. "You have more and more people who believe that they have a legal right to go through life without seeing or without hearing things they find to be offensive."
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • InHiding80InHiding80 Posts: 7,623
    edited April 2017
    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    So you're okay with antifa making jokes about Nazi scalps referencing a Tarantino movie then. Oh wait! Only white make rethuglicans can be pic and intolerant! Got it, double standard hypocrite. Libs can't call you names but you can use cuck, snowflake, libtard et al all you want. It's a two way street. Suck it up buttercup.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    now, to @unsung end, this is a perfect example of political correctness has gone off the rails:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/04/27/manitoba-licence-plate_n_16303128.html

    Manitoba Revokes 'Star Trek' Licence Plate Deemed Offensive

    WINNIPEG — Manitoba Public Insurance has revoked a Star Trek fan's personalized licence plate after receiving complaints that its message — ASIMIL8 — is offensive to indigenous people.

    Nick Troller has been driving around with the plate for two years.

    It's held within a Star Trek licence frame that also bears the quotes, "We are the Borg," and "Resistance is Futile."

    Troller tells CTV Winnipeg that on his favourite show, an enemy race of aliens called the Borg travel through the galaxy trying to assimilate other cultures into their own.


    He says he thought the plate was funny and notes strangers and other Trek fans have complimented him and asked to take photos with the plate.

    But Troller got a phone call Wednesday from a staff member at Manitoba Public Insurance who told him two people had complained that the word "assimilate" is offensive to indigenous people.

    He also received a letter from MPI on Thursday demanding he "surrender" the plate immediately, telling him he can either get a new plate or a refund on the $100 charge.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."
    "But that's not the point," says Troller. "We've become way too sensitive. You can't say anything anymore to anybody."

    Ry Moran, from the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, insists the word "assimilate" is too offensive to be on a licence plate.

    "For basically the entirety of this country's history, indigenous peoples have been forcibly assimilated through really extremely destructive means and ways," he says.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."

    MPI's policy states that "plates cannot contain a slogan that could be considered offensive." MPI says it takes such complaints "very seriously" and will investigate why the plate was approved in the first place.

    Licence plates are property of the Crown and there is no appeal process.


    Troller's situation is reminiscent of a controversy in Nova Scotia, where a man named Lorne Grabher's personalized GRABHER plate was revoked after a complaint that it was offensive to women.

    The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms said earlier this month that it plans to sue the Nova Scotia government over the revocation, which it sees as an infringement on freedom of expression.

    The JCCF's John Carpay said the GRABHER licence plate revocation is part of a wider trend in Canadian society.

    "Canadians are becoming increasingly less tolerant of free expression," he said. "You have more and more people who believe that they have a legal right to go through life without seeing or without hearing things they find to be offensive."

    It amuses me that his name is Troller.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,306
    CM189191 said:

    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

    Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

    You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

    I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

    -Neil Gaiman
    Sandman author. Nice.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    unsung said:

    I have heard many new terms this past year.

    Micro aggressions
    Safe space

    Those two are the most ridiculous.

    The worst one I heard was white genocide.
    I think bootlicker, statist, and overlord are up there too!
    None of those are remotely as asinine as cuck and beta.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,737
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    I have heard many new terms this past year.

    Micro aggressions
    Safe space

    Those two are the most ridiculous.

    The worst one I heard was white genocide.
    I think bootlicker, statist, and overlord are up there too!
    None of those are remotely as asinine as cuck and beta.
    You forgot globalist and snowflake
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,761

    CM189191 said:

    unsung said:

    Screw political correctness.

    I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

    Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

    You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

    I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

    -Neil Gaiman
    Sandman author. Nice.
    Best. Author. Living. Always look forward to something new from him. My bookshelf is adorned with The Sandman masterpieces in the hardcover omnibus edition.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    "Student Union: Use ‘Jazz Hands’ Instead Of Clapping Or Face ‘Consequences’"


    http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/28/student-union-use-jazz-hands-instead-of-clapping-or-face-consequences/
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,874

    now, to @unsung end, this is a perfect example of political correctness has gone off the rails:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/04/27/manitoba-licence-plate_n_16303128.html

    Manitoba Revokes 'Star Trek' Licence Plate Deemed Offensive

    WINNIPEG — Manitoba Public Insurance has revoked a Star Trek fan's personalized licence plate after receiving complaints that its message — ASIMIL8 — is offensive to indigenous people.

    Nick Troller has been driving around with the plate for two years.

    It's held within a Star Trek licence frame that also bears the quotes, "We are the Borg," and "Resistance is Futile."

    Troller tells CTV Winnipeg that on his favourite show, an enemy race of aliens called the Borg travel through the galaxy trying to assimilate other cultures into their own.


    He says he thought the plate was funny and notes strangers and other Trek fans have complimented him and asked to take photos with the plate.

    But Troller got a phone call Wednesday from a staff member at Manitoba Public Insurance who told him two people had complained that the word "assimilate" is offensive to indigenous people.

    He also received a letter from MPI on Thursday demanding he "surrender" the plate immediately, telling him he can either get a new plate or a refund on the $100 charge.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."
    "But that's not the point," says Troller. "We've become way too sensitive. You can't say anything anymore to anybody."

    Ry Moran, from the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, insists the word "assimilate" is too offensive to be on a licence plate.

    "For basically the entirety of this country's history, indigenous peoples have been forcibly assimilated through really extremely destructive means and ways," he says.

    "Words like that, meant or not, have an actual impact on many people."

    MPI's policy states that "plates cannot contain a slogan that could be considered offensive." MPI says it takes such complaints "very seriously" and will investigate why the plate was approved in the first place.

    Licence plates are property of the Crown and there is no appeal process.


    Troller's situation is reminiscent of a controversy in Nova Scotia, where a man named Lorne Grabher's personalized GRABHER plate was revoked after a complaint that it was offensive to women.

    The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms said earlier this month that it plans to sue the Nova Scotia government over the revocation, which it sees as an infringement on freedom of expression.

    The JCCF's John Carpay said the GRABHER licence plate revocation is part of a wider trend in Canadian society.

    "Canadians are becoming increasingly less tolerant of free expression," he said. "You have more and more people who believe that they have a legal right to go through life without seeing or without hearing things they find to be offensive."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDiZefRj78g
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,938
    Talk about being offended:


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,938

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    What term did you google to determine "it?"
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,938
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    Things like repeat offending and other relevant factors are included in these analyses.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    Access to education is probably the most well-known example!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Another.

    There are 67 genders.
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    rgambs said:

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    Access to education is probably the most well-known example!
    Please explain.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    Access to education is probably the most well-known example!
    Please explain.
    Access to adequate education for minority children is such a well-known problem that it exists as a common theme in our collective consciousness as a society.
    The very term "inner city schools" is fraught with negative connotations that make virtually any American picture black students sharing outdated textbooks in graffiti covered schools filled with violence and empty of technology.

    There are encyclopedias worth of hard data backing the disparity in education.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    So the facts are they are typically subjected to longer jail sentences. With these cases are they factoring in things such as gang affiliation, 2nd time offenders? Both of which get you extra time. I would also venture to say that longer jail sentences for crimes committed is not systemic oppression. I think a better argument for systemic oppression would be to look to see if there is an oppression of jobs, access to healthcare, access to education, things like that. I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked for anyone arguing for it to bring something of substance.

    As for the guy that says use google, when you google it you get a pretty even amount of resources that say it does, and doesn't. Google is only good if you are hell bent that you are right and ignore anything that disagrees with you.

    And the dude that says doesn't agree with my pro Trump, what does Trump have to do with this? Why are you even bringing him up?

    Access to education is probably the most well-known example!
    Please explain.
    Access to adequate education for minority children is such a well-known problem that it exists as a common theme in our collective consciousness as a society.
    The very term "inner city schools" is fraught with negative connotations that make virtually any American picture black students sharing outdated textbooks in graffiti covered schools filled with violence and empty of technology.

    There are encyclopedias worth of hard data backing the disparity in education.
    Wouldn't that have more to do with income than race? If I'm not mistaken, aren't there also other ethnicities that attend these schools? Your middle paragraph is a complete opinion piece by the way.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,938
    Yea, can't trust the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Everyone knows their surveys are biased. Why did I know that you'd dismiss evidence? What do you want? Personal anecdotes of being oppressed?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 711

    Yea, can't trust the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Everyone knows their surveys are biased. Why did I know that you'd dismiss evidence? What do you want? Personal anecdotes of being oppressed?
    Surveys can be misleading, we all know that. I'm not dismissing it, just stating the source. You would think that a think tank or some institution would actually do research and have hard evidence. Systemic oppression is a very bold and heavy statement. Not a buzzword to be thrown around. I just figured that someone who believes it is happening would have some good solid proof, and not just say yea and then frantically use google to find something to back up the claim. Just looking for some truth is all.
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Posts: 7,623
    unsung said:

    Another.

    There are 67 genders.

    And twice as much hyperbolic partisan hackery bs from you!
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,938
    Yea, sure, let's rely on biased think tanks as opposed to non-partisan government agencies. Perhaps you can link to some of that google research that shows it doesn't exist, seeing that you made the claim. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to retire to my library and search for the report that unequivocally proves for you that oppression exists. I'm sure you'll accept it once I find it. And after you've finished linking to your google sources that back your claim, would you mind defining "today" and "it?" My stacks are long and deep and it'll reduce my search time. Thank you.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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