Can't be bothered to read the whole the whole thread, but I'll throw my two pennies in....
As I see it, Dave's time with the band was really important, he was the drummer they needed at the time, he drove those intense full energy shows with his rapidfire drumming, it suited where they were at the time. I think all of PJ's drummers have their good points, but I don't think any of the others play those early songs with quite the intensity that Dave did. That said, I don't think he's doing himself any favours by throwing a strop about it, he's pretty much guaranteeing he won't get an invite, a little more grace might have served him better.
I also think Jack Irons should have been included, again, I think he brought a different and unique style, that really shaped the music they were making at the time. Dave and Jack's exclusion just makes me think that the hall of fame don't really know much of the history of the band.
If dave was there I would imagine it would be very awkward....why would you want that? Anybody could have drummed during that period; people didn't go to Pearl Jam shows or buy ten-vitalogy because of Dave.
Exactly...... meg white could have played on those albums & they would have been successful.
Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great. Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.
Jack Irons? Worst of them all.
Without Jack Irons, no No Code and Yield as they are. Enough said.
^If Ten and Vs. weren't consistently in the top 2 or 3 most played albums on each tour I might be inclined to agree with you, at least about moving on from the past. Dave A made significant contributions to this band at one point in time and that should merely be acknowledged. Period.
Did Dave A write ANY of the music or lyrics, or for that matter have anything to do with the direction of the songs on those albums? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". Those albums would have happened with or without him.
^If Ten and Vs. weren't consistently in the top 2 or 3 most played albums on each tour I might be inclined to agree with you, at least about moving on from the past. Dave A made significant contributions to this band at one point in time and that should merely be acknowledged. Period.
Did Dave A write ANY of the music or lyrics, or for that matter have anything to do with the direction of the songs on those albums? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". Those albums would have happened with or without him.
Dave A actually has writing credits on all of VS and a majority of Vitalogy. The band shared credits for a majority of those 2 albums.
^If Ten and Vs. weren't consistently in the top 2 or 3 most played albums on each tour I might be inclined to agree with you, at least about moving on from the past. Dave A made significant contributions to this band at one point in time and that should merely be acknowledged. Period.
Did Dave A write ANY of the music or lyrics, or for that matter have anything to do with the direction of the songs on those albums? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". Those albums would have happened with or without him.
Dave did have writing credits on VS and Vitalogy. Any of us on here that were around and got to see them play during the time of ten and VS will agree that Dave had a lot to do with the energy and sound then.
.I can't say I give a flying fuck that Dave A isn't being inducted (and I think it would be in his best interests to shut up about it on social media), but I do think it would be a nice gesture if one of the band members invited him as a guest, to sit with them and join them on stage during their acceptance speech... Of course, I have no idea if Dave A would be happy to do such a thing if he was asked. For all we know, that would be like salt in the wound for him. There are a lot of options for how Dave might feel in such a situation. I also have no idea how awkward or not awkward it might be for any of the band members. That seems like a personal issue to me.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This story is being covered by every outlet right now...crazy
I guess if I was David A I would want to be nominated as well and rightfully so since he was with them at the peak of popularity... there's an argument that could be made for almost all of them Jack Irons in my opinion is the reason why the band is still going and did not dissolve after Vitalogy but I'm sure that's not a qualification to being inducted
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
They put Nirvana in with 3 albums, why not Pearl Jam? Without those first 3 and the explosion of popularity they would likely not be considered.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
^If Ten and Vs. weren't consistently in the top 2 or 3 most played albums on each tour I might be inclined to agree with you, at least about moving on from the past. Dave A made significant contributions to this band at one point in time and that should merely be acknowledged. Period.
Did Dave A write ANY of the music or lyrics, or for that matter have anything to do with the direction of the songs on those albums? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". Those albums would have happened with or without him.
Dave A actually has writing credits on all of VS and a majority of Vitalogy. The band shared credits for a majority of those 2 albums.
the writing credits officially go to all the band members on those two albums, and they stopped that after dave was let go. he actually wrote Go and co-wrote WMA and Last Exit.
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
They put Nirvana in with 3 albums, why not Pearl Jam? Without those first 3 and the explosion of popularity they would likely not be considered.
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
They put Nirvana in with 3 albums, why not Pearl Jam? Without those first 3 and the explosion of popularity they would likely not be considered.
Eddie Vedder didn't blow his brains out.
So?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Unnecessary for this ro polarise the board to this extent.
It's the internet and all.
But, I don't think anyone would have bat an eye if all the drummers were inducted or would have been all "why did Dave A get inducted?!?!"
So, lets all just agree that if would have been more "fun" if all members of the band through history would have been inducted. Now that didn't happen, so be it.
Instead of talking down Dave, or Matt or whoever have meant the most and such.
Pearl Jam as a band, all of their incarnations and everything they have accomplished should be indicted. Not some weird slice of the band.
Mmm.
Neil Young Decade is such a great compilation.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Unnecessary for this ro polarise the board to this extent.
It's the internet and all.
But, I don't think anyone would have bat an eye if all the drummers were inducted or would have been all "why did Dave A get inducted?!?!"
So, lets all just agree that if would have been more "fun" if all members of the band through history would have been inducted. Now that didn't happen, so be it.
Instead of talking down Dave, or Matt or whoever have meant the most and such.
Pearl Jam as a band, all of their incarnations and everything they have accomplished should be indicted. Not some weird slice of the band.
Unnecessary for this ro polarise the board to this extent.
It's the internet and all.
But, I don't think anyone would have bat an eye if all the drummers were inducted or would have been all "why did Dave A get inducted?!?!"
So, lets all just agree that if would have been more "fun" if all members of the band through history would have been inducted. Now that didn't happen, so be it.
Instead of talking down Dave, or Matt or whoever have meant the most and such.
Pearl Jam as a band, all of their incarnations and everything they have accomplished should be indicted. Not some weird slice of the band.
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
After vitalogy? That's different than what I spoke of, which was Matt joining (he joined after Yield). After Yield, yes they were basically a lock at that point to me. After Vitalogy, probably but not for sure. At that point they probably just needed to put out a few decent albums, to make the catalog deeper.
This is a tough one. Matt has put in the the most time. But PJ was already on their way to the RNR HOF before he joined up. They were going in with or without Matt. I guess it's too bad they can't put them all in.
I wonder. Do you think that if PJ hadn't persisted after Vitalogy they would have been inducted? I honestly don't know. It's possible that if they hadn't stayed together all these years and stopped after 3 albums they and their first 3 albums would have lost a fair bit of relevance. It's possible that the way they endured after the early years had a big role in keeping those albums as relevant as they still are. Also, the RRHOF does really seem to take less popular yet outstanding work into serious consideration. PJ's earliest albums were certainly the most popular and successful, but they have had the full influence that they have by years and years of touring, building and keeping a relatively unusually dedicated fan base, and I'm sure the RRHOF folks have total understanding when it comes to the importance of the band's extraordinary endurance after their first few years and their consistent big presence in the music world. Not to mention the insane quality of the music that came after Vitalogy. In other words, PJ's most famous albums are far from the only thing that define their overall legacy in the music world. They alone may not have been enough to make them a shoe-in on their first nomination. I actually doubt they would have been if they'd broken up in the mid-90s.
After vitalogy? That's different than what I spoke of, which was Matt joining (he joined after Yield). After Yield, yes they were basically a lock at that point to me. After Vitalogy, probably but not for sure. At that point they probably just needed to put out a few decent albums, to make the catalog deeper.
When you look at pieces written on Pearl Jam's legacy, they always focus on 1991-1994 and briefly cover the rest in a paragraph or less. Hell, PJ20 did the same thing. While Pearl Jam post-1994 is important to us as fans, its not hailed as their best work by others, for better or for worse.
When it comes down to the RnRHOF, it's absolutely the first three albums and a nod of existence and survival for the following seven.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
Comments
As I see it, Dave's time with the band was really important, he was the drummer they needed at the time, he drove those intense full energy shows with his rapidfire drumming, it suited where they were at the time. I think all of PJ's drummers have their good points, but I don't think any of the others play those early songs with quite the intensity that Dave did. That said, I don't think he's doing himself any favours by throwing a strop about it, he's pretty much guaranteeing he won't get an invite, a little more grace might have served him better.
I also think Jack Irons should have been included, again, I think he brought a different and unique style, that really shaped the music they were making at the time. Dave and Jack's exclusion just makes me think that the hall of fame don't really know much of the history of the band.
I guess if I was David A I would want to be nominated as well and rightfully so since he was with them at the peak of popularity... there's an argument that could be made for almost all of them Jack Irons in my opinion is the reason why the band is still going and did not dissolve after Vitalogy but I'm sure that's not a qualification to being inducted
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
(Edited for grammar)
www.headstonesband.com
They recorded The Fixer and Olé without their "driving force"
DAVE A WOULD NEVER HAVE LET THAT HAPPEN!
:P
It's the internet and all.
But, I don't think anyone would have bat an eye if all the drummers were inducted or would have been all "why did Dave A get inducted?!?!"
So, lets all just agree that if would have been more "fun" if all members of the band through history would have been inducted. Now that didn't happen, so be it.
Instead of talking down Dave, or Matt or whoever have meant the most and such.
Pearl Jam as a band, all of their incarnations and everything they have accomplished should be indicted. Not some weird slice of the band.
Mmm.
Neil Young Decade is such a great compilation.
www.headstonesband.com
When it comes down to the RnRHOF, it's absolutely the first three albums and a nod of existence and survival for the following seven.