Hillary won more votes for President

JimmyV · December 2016

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

tbergs said:

JimmyV said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

JimmyV said:
The "basket of deplorables" line will live forever in our political lexicon. Right alongside Watergate, swiftboating, October Surprise and the 47 percent. Who talks that way about the electorate when they are trying to win votes? Clinton held white, male, Midwestern voters in contempt, just the same as Mitt Romney did the 47 percent. Both believed they were going to win the election. Neither one did.

The platform can certainly be tweaked, but the platform was not the problem. The candidate was the problem. I harp on this not because Hillary Clinton is some villain who deserves it. She isn't. I do it because the Democratic party decided on her long before a single primary vote was cast...and then she lost to Donald Trump! This didn't need to happen. We can't let it happen again.
to be clear....she was referring to racists and the like

The morons who labeled themselves "deplorables" for being Trump supporters were clearly following the right wing bullshit news.
well, she did say "half of his supporters are deplorables" or something of the like. half is a lot.
yes and then she apologized and said she shouldn't have said "half"
After she got caught on tape saying it at a high priced fundraiser, yes she did apologize. The damage was already done. It reaffirmed the belief that she (like Romney) was an out of touch elitist and (also like Romney) gave her opponent a rallying cry. You can't really blame right-wing news when the candidate steps in it like that.
What's ironic, is this is being used to explain part of her downfall. Trump out offended/derided people of all types on a daily basis so to believe her one slip of the tongue was the end is ridiculous. Trump just got away with it for some reason. Maybe because he was consistent with being offensive and rude.
This is a fair point. I think on some level many people viewed Trump's act as just that, an act. Like he was playing a character. Plus, most of his comments were made in public. He wasn't hiding them, although he did often deny them. Clinton on the other hand made her comments behind the closed doors of a fundraiser. It came across as an honest moment, a rare glimpse into what she really believed. That's why I think it was more damaging.
Although I've said before that it's always a mistake to call out voters (agreeing with you Free...see we agree..), let's be clear on what she said and where she said it. It was at the LBGT Gala and it was a public speech, not a private dinner secretly recorded (like Romney). It was meant to rally her people, specifically the LBGT. Here's the quote.. I think we can all agree that racists, xenophobic, homophobic people are deplorable..

We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."

I stand corrected on where and when the comment was made. I thought that dinner was a closed door fundraiser. That said, no matter how racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, or Islamaphobic you believe your opposition to be, it makes little sense to write off a quarter of the electorate as being deplorable.

JimmyV · December 2016

Gern Blansten said:

MeanMr.Mustard said:

Gern Blansten said:

JimmyV said:
The "basket of deplorables" line will live forever in our political lexicon. Right alongside Watergate, swiftboating, October Surprise and the 47 percent. Who talks that way about the electorate when they are trying to win votes? Clinton held white, male, Midwestern voters in contempt, just the same as Mitt Romney did the 47 percent. Both believed they were going to win the election. Neither one did.

The platform can certainly be tweaked, but the platform was not the problem. The candidate was the problem. I harp on this not because Hillary Clinton is some villain who deserves it. She isn't. I do it because the Democratic party decided on her long before a single primary vote was cast...and then she lost to Donald Trump! This didn't need to happen. We can't let it happen again.
to be clear....she was referring to racists and the like

The morons who labeled themselves "deplorables" for being Trump supporters were clearly following the right wing bullshit news.
maybe she should have made herself more clear when she used the phrase "basket of deplorables" it's really not any different than other words used by Trump or anybody else that get misconstrued and used against them, it just an opportunity for one side to attack another.
I'm surprised there aren't T shirts that have "angry white men" printed on them already LOL !!

That doesn't make sense. She made it very clear that the deplorables she was referring to were racists and the like. Unless you were racist or the like you had no business being offended.

And then she said that half of her opponent's supporters fit that description. She opened the door for many people who a) weren't racists or b) didn't believe themselves to be racists to think she was talking about them.

CM189191 · December 2016

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
No.. by vote totals, he didn't appeal to more people. He appealed to the right people in the right states.
Correction: He didn't appeal to most Californians

And everyone knows Californians votes don't count because they're not real 'Murica

tbergs · December 2016

JimmyV said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

tbergs said:

JimmyV said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

JimmyV said:
The "basket of deplorables" line will live forever in our political lexicon. Right alongside Watergate, swiftboating, October Surprise and the 47 percent. Who talks that way about the electorate when they are trying to win votes? Clinton held white, male, Midwestern voters in contempt, just the same as Mitt Romney did the 47 percent. Both believed they were going to win the election. Neither one did.

The platform can certainly be tweaked, but the platform was not the problem. The candidate was the problem. I harp on this not because Hillary Clinton is some villain who deserves it. She isn't. I do it because the Democratic party decided on her long before a single primary vote was cast...and then she lost to Donald Trump! This didn't need to happen. We can't let it happen again.
to be clear....she was referring to racists and the like

The morons who labeled themselves "deplorables" for being Trump supporters were clearly following the right wing bullshit news.
well, she did say "half of his supporters are deplorables" or something of the like. half is a lot.
yes and then she apologized and said she shouldn't have said "half"
After she got caught on tape saying it at a high priced fundraiser, yes she did apologize. The damage was already done. It reaffirmed the belief that she (like Romney) was an out of touch elitist and (also like Romney) gave her opponent a rallying cry. You can't really blame right-wing news when the candidate steps in it like that.
What's ironic, is this is being used to explain part of her downfall. Trump out offended/derided people of all types on a daily basis so to believe her one slip of the tongue was the end is ridiculous. Trump just got away with it for some reason. Maybe because he was consistent with being offensive and rude.
This is a fair point. I think on some level many people viewed Trump's act as just that, an act. Like he was playing a character. Plus, most of his comments were made in public. He wasn't hiding them, although he did often deny them. Clinton on the other hand made her comments behind the closed doors of a fundraiser. It came across as an honest moment, a rare glimpse into what she really believed. That's why I think it was more damaging.
Although I've said before that it's always a mistake to call out voters (agreeing with you Free...see we agree..), let's be clear on what she said and where she said it. It was at the LBGT Gala and it was a public speech, not a private dinner secretly recorded (like Romney). It was meant to rally her people, specifically the LBGT. Here's the quote.. I think we can all agree that racists, xenophobic, homophobic people are deplorable..

We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
I stand corrected on where and when the comment was made. I thought that dinner was a closed door fundraiser. That said, no matter how racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, or Islamaphobic you believe your opposition to be, it makes little sense to write off a quarter of the electorate as being deplorable.

Trump essentially was writing off at least half with his comments. As was already stated, if you were offended by her comment, you should have been outraged by his.

Free · December 2016

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
No.. by vote totals, he didn't appeal to more people. He appealed to the right people in the right states.

Gee, in an election with the two most unpopular candidates ever, it's a clear race for the bottom.

Free · December 2016

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…

mrussel1 · December 2016

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…

They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.

Go Beavers · December 2016

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.

There's a way to do it since we're paying for everyone's education through the 12th grade and if their kids want a blue collar job, their trade school could be covered.

Jason P · December 2016

Just let people declare bankruptcy on student loans and the market will reset itself.

JC29856 · December 2016

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.

Tell them it's part of military defense spending...DONE! Not to mention the cost is peanuts compared to defense budget, it will get lost in the walnut sauce.

Go Beavers · December 2016

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
Tell them it's part of military defense spending...DONE! Not to mention the cost is peanuts compared to defense budget, it will get lost in the walnut sauce.

"Defeat ISIS with free tuition!"

mrussel1 · December 2016

Jason P said:
Just let people declare bankruptcy on student loans and the market will reset itself.

No friggin' way. There won't be one financial institution that will underwrite student loans or buy those securities if they can be discharged. The market won't reset, it will crash.

mrussel1 · December 2016

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
Tell them it's part of military defense spending...DONE! Not to mention the cost is peanuts compared to defense budget, it will get lost in the walnut sauce.

Probably true..

jeffbr · December 2016

Apparently Trump could have won the popular vote as well, if he wanted to.

CM189191 · December 2016

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
Tell them it's part of military defense spending...DONE! Not to mention the cost is peanuts compared to defense budget, it will get lost in the walnut sauce.

Ha! Remember when they determined US kids were getting too fat for military service and Michelle suggested children maybe eat some vegetables?

The next administration is angling to dismantle public education as we know it. College? The next generation will be lucky if they can afford K-12.

JC29856 · December 2016

CM189191 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
Tell them it's part of military defense spending...DONE! Not to mention the cost is peanuts compared to defense budget, it will get lost in the walnut sauce.
Ha! Remember when they determined US kids were getting too fat for military service and Michelle suggested children maybe eat some vegetables?

The next administration is angling to dismantle public education as we know it. College? The next generation will be lucky if they can afford K-12.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here? Charter schools?

mrussel1 · December 2016

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
There's a way to do it since we're paying for everyone's education through the 12th grade and if their kids want a blue collar job, their trade school could be covered.

Of course there's a way... it's higher taxes. I'm personally an advocate for two things that I've brought up here several times: 1. Controlling the cost curve on public institutions. It is severely out of whack. And 2. Providing more public aid and assistance for STEM jobs training.

I'd be for that. But I'm an east coast liberal who left Cleveland because it had zero to offer me. I grew up literally right next to the Brook Park Ford motor plant, where they made the famous 351C. Half my friends went to work for GM and Ford. They are not lining up to pay more taxes, even for their own kids.

Gern Blansten · December 2016

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
There's a way to do it since we're paying for everyone's education through the 12th grade and if their kids want a blue collar job, their trade school could be covered.
Of course there's a way... it's higher taxes. I'm personally an advocate for two things that I've brought up here several times: 1. Controlling the cost curve on public institutions. It is severely out of whack. And 2. Providing more public aid and assistance for STEM jobs training.

I'd be for that. But I'm an east coast liberal who left Cleveland because it had zero to offer me. I grew up literally right next to the Brook Park Ford motor plant, where they made the famous 351C. Half my friends went to work for GM and Ford. They are not lining up to pay more taxes, even for their own kids.

Our priorities are really fucked up. When government (local, state, federal) wants to cut costs it tends to hit education and social programs when it should really focus on cutting military spending and corporate welfare.

The money is there for a giant tax increase. If Trump can get by with saying we need to tax companies that leave the USA and import their products back in then the Dems should be able to propose a gross revenue tax so that these large companies can't hide their profits anymore. Hit them on revenue instead....if the revenue is generated in the USA then pay tax to the USA.

JC29856 · December 2016

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

eddiec said:

Free said:

Gern Blansten said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

Free said:
Same old same old Democratic Party doesn't work anymore!
Crazy that they got away with it for that long. Considering the base, maybe not.
A lot of Democrats I know, and some are family members, are so out of touch with the common struggles of every day people because of their income status level, it is not funny. This elite mindframe of Democrats in general is not working. It doesn't work for the people of this country and now it doesn't work for Democrats. Because they lost the election. Time to learn the lesson and start over again.
That doesn't make sense. Democrats as a party support an increased minimum wage, health insurance for all, policies that strengthen workers rights, etc.

The GOP opposes those things. Who lost touch?
Jesus, like many Dems, you are very resistant to look at your party & just continue to look at Trump or Russia etc. The Dem party is out of touch. Trump appealed to more than Hillary did. (scary, but true) Trump was anti-establishment, Hillary represented more continued establishment. We saw how many millions of people following Sanders and Trump are anti-establishment.

There's no convincing someone who refuses to see things the way they are.
So if Bernie was on the ticket the Dem party suddenly wouldn't be out of touch?
Their policies would still be pretty much the same.

Not at all.
Do you know what Bernie Sanders policies are? They were too progressive as she and her supporters would say. Not enough support for climate change because she takes money from oil companies, free healthcare? Nope. Income inequality? Nope. Free college? Nope only reduced tuition was she pushing. I can go on…
They were also way too progressive to win in the midwest. I'm not sure how you convince a blue collar worker in Flint that he should pay for a middle class kid's college education. To me, that's the disconnect.
There's a way to do it since we're paying for everyone's education through the 12th grade and if their kids want a blue collar job, their trade school could be covered.
Of course there's a way... it's higher taxes. I'm personally an advocate for two things that I've brought up here several times: 1. Controlling the cost curve on public institutions. It is severely out of whack. And 2. Providing more public aid and assistance for STEM jobs training.

I'd be for that. But I'm an east coast liberal who left Cleveland because it had zero to offer me. I grew up literally right next to the Brook Park Ford motor plant, where they made the famous 351C. Half my friends went to work for GM and Ford. They are not lining up to pay more taxes, even for their own kids.
Our priorities are really fucked up. When government (local, state, federal) wants to cut costs it tends to hit education and social programs when it should really focus on cutting military spending and corporate welfare.

The money is there for a giant tax increase. If Trump can get by with saying we need to tax companies that leave the USA and import their products back in then the Dems should be able to propose a gross revenue tax so that these large companies can't hide their profits anymore. Hit them on revenue instead....if the revenue is generated in the USA then pay tax to the USA.

Boom goes the dynamite!! You are en fuego today!

Speculative stock transaction tax!!!

Gern Blansten · December 2016

It's just funny to me to listen to wealthy people complain about poor people. They say that once you provide a poor person a certain benefit they scream when you take it away.

This is exactly like the net investment income tax that kicked in with Obamacare. This 3.8% tax kicks in once your net investment income exceeds $ 250,000 (if married/joint). You wouldn't believe how many times I heard "they just make it impossible to make money" these last few years.

I'm like....dude your dividends are more than I make in a year. Fuck off

Hillary won more votes for President

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