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President Elect Trump

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529

    tell me why you think this matters.
    Because he mistakenly thought his 'friend' was Jewish? Because his friend thought trump would find speeches by a fascist interesting?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927

    tell me why you think this matters.
    You mentioned Trump probably isn't well read. This was the only article I could find that he may or may not have actually read a book.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,445

    Because he mistakenly thought his 'friend' was Jewish? Because his friend thought trump would find speeches by a fascist interesting?
    much ado about nothing. I have very well-read, intelligent, liberal friends who have all read Mein Kampf, for historical interest and nothing more. I see no difference between that and a book about his speeches. his (at the time) soon-to-be ex wife claiming he read them for inspiration means zero and is unsubstantiated.
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,586
    If we learned Trump had replaced the Hitler book with a collection of cartoons featuring Pepe The Frog, would that be better or worse?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529

    much ado about nothing. I have very well-read, intelligent, liberal friends who have all read Mein Kampf, for historical interest and nothing more. I see no difference between that and a book about his speeches. his (at the time) soon-to-be ex wife claiming he read them for inspiration means zero and is unsubstantiated.
    It's something because trump isn't well read or intelligent. He doesn't have a natural curiosity about history or human dynamics. He's an authoritarian demagogue. That's why I see his interest in Hitler differently.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,445

    It's something because trump isn't well read or intelligent. He doesn't have a natural curiosity about history or human dynamics. He's an authoritarian demagogue. That's why I see his interest in Hitler differently.
    not sure you can claim to know he doesn't have a "natural curiosity about history or human dynamics"?

    as much as we have all joked about him being an idiot, I don't think you get to his level of wealth and success without being intelligent. it's just not possible. at the very least, he knew exactly who to surround himself with, which is one of the most important things you can do in business. I don't care how many failures he's had. all millionaires/billionaires have. his are just more public because he chose to write a book about his successes, which inevitibly will cause people to shine a light on your failures. I don't care about his loan from his dad. he turned 1 million into hundreds of millions. you don't do that by luck.

    look, I'm not defending him. I just think that all of these red herrings that people are throwing out against him are hurting their cause of what the real issues are/might be. it's no different than all the hillary clinton email bullshit.
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529

    not sure you can claim to know he doesn't have a "natural curiosity about history or human dynamics"?

    as much as we have all joked about him being an idiot, I don't think you get to his level of wealth and success without being intelligent. it's just not possible. at the very least, he knew exactly who to surround himself with, which is one of the most important things you can do in business. I don't care how many failures he's had. all millionaires/billionaires have. his are just more public because he chose to write a book about his successes, which inevitibly will cause people to shine a light on your failures. I don't care about his loan from his dad. he turned 1 million into hundreds of millions. you don't do that by luck.

    look, I'm not defending him. I just think that all of these red herrings that people are throwing out against him are hurting their cause of what the real issues are/might be. it's no different than all the hillary clinton email bullshit.
    This isn't anything at all like Clinton's emails. I'm talking about trump's personality based on what he says and his actions as well as policy. He may be knowledgable about his area of business, that's fine. I recommend people look at the scope of what he's put out there, and not try to dilute it, normalize it, or minimize it. These are the real issues.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,445

    This isn't anything at all like Clinton's emails. I'm talking about trump's personality based on what he says and his actions as well as policy. He may be knowledgable about his area of business, that's fine. I recommend people look at the scope of what he's put out there, and not try to dilute it, normalize it, or minimize it. These are the real issues.
    I don't find a book he was given by a friend whose religion he mistook and may or may not have read two decades ago a "real issue".
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,281
    Trumps daughter and son in law are Jewish ... is everyone aware of this?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529

    I don't find a book he was given by a friend whose religion he mistook and may or may not have read two decades ago a "real issue".
    I find it interesting that someone who uses techniques to manipulate masses of people in the same manner that dictators have in the past an issue.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    Jason P said:

    Trumps daughter and son in law are Jewish ... is everyone aware of this?

    Yeah. What do you make of that?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,445
    Jason P said:

    Trumps daughter and son in law are Jewish ... is everyone aware of this?

    yep.
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,586

    I find it interesting that someone who uses techniques to manipulate masses of people in the same manner that dictators have in the past an issue.
    This is why I don't get bogged down in questioning his intelligence. If he can read these speeches, absorb them, pick out the techniques and employ them himself then he is not unintelligent. Terrifying and dangerous, but not unintelligent.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,281

    Yeah. What do you make of that?
    I would presume from that information that his favorite breakfast cereal is Cookie Crisp. That's the only conclusion.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    Jason P said:

    I would presume from that information that his favorite breakfast cereal is Cookie Crisp. That's the only conclusion.
    Okay. I just figured there was something behind asking. Figures he likes Cookie Crisp. That stuff's garbage.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,281

    Okay. I just figured there was something behind asking. Figures he likes Cookie Crisp. That stuff's garbage.
    How dare you!
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    Jason P said:

    How dare you!
    Lucky Charms wins for the junk cereal.
  • Lucky Charms wins for the junk cereal.
    Why? Because they're magically delicious? Or because they've exploited the Irish leprechaun to promote their product and in doing so... have mocked Irish culture?

    They should change their name to 'Fortunate Tokens' to cease their insensitivity.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,388
    JimmyV said:

    This is why I don't get bogged down in questioning his intelligence. If he can read these speeches, absorb them, pick out the techniques and employ them himself then he is not unintelligent. Terrifying and dangerous, but not unintelligent.
    Good point. He's creating plausible deniability for any unfavorable actions or outcomes of his administration.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529

    Why? Because they're magically delicious? Or because they've exploited the Irish leprechaun to promote their product and in doing so... have mocked Irish culture?

    They should change their name to 'Fortunate Tokens' to cease their insensitivity.
    Just keep your hands off my Frosted Menorah Mix.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,281
    I only eat Cookie Crisp once every year and each time it's a delight. Muddy cookie milk. Mmmmmmm
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,355
    CM189191 said:

    Marie Brenner's 1990 profile of Donald Trump for Vanity Fair captured the real estate mogul in turmoil, as he struggled to hold onto his empire amid a nasty divorce fight. It's a juicy piece, but one anecdote in particular stands out: that Trump owned a copy of Adolf Hitler's speeches and allegedly read them for inspiration:
    "Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist."
    I honestly don't see what the big deal is about this. Hitler was a despicable human, but owning his book doesn't mean someone is refuting that statement. Hitler was masterful and persuasive as a speaker and as a writer, and there's no reason to avoid studying his writings because of the nature of the words within.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    benjs said:

    I honestly don't see what the big deal is about this. Hitler was a despicable human, but owning his book doesn't mean someone is refuting that statement. Hitler was masterful and persuasive as a speaker and as a writer, and there's no reason to avoid studying his writings because of the nature of the words within.
    I don't think the issue is to avoid or not, the issue is when you see a leader use the same methods fascists use.
  • Trump is definitely of the charismatic variety and hence, the Hitler references; however, I feel that's about the extent of the legitimate comparisons.

    With that said, history has shown that charismatic leaders at various levels have managed to get people to do horrible things.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    benjs said:

    I honestly don't see what the big deal is about this. Hitler was a despicable human, but owning his book doesn't mean someone is refuting that statement. Hitler was masterful and persuasive as a speaker and as a writer, and there's no reason to avoid studying his writings because of the nature of the words within.
    I agree, not a big deal if it's a part of a healthy diet.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    CM189191 said:

    I agree, not a big deal if it's a part of a healthy diet.
    That's why it's important to note with trump, because he's not so big on intellectual health.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,355

    I don't think the issue is to avoid or not, the issue is when you see a leader use the same methods fascists use.
    I'm sorry, but that's a hell of a stretch. If I wanted to learn woodworking, I would seek an opportunity to learn from an expert. Fascist leaders and non-fascist leaders alike are welcome to study great historical speeches and essays to better their own skills of persuasion, and there's no shame in learning from an expert in persuasion and/or using those skills.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    benjs said:

    I'm sorry, but that's a hell of a stretch. If I wanted to learn woodworking, I would seek an opportunity to learn from an expert. Fascist leaders and non-fascist leaders alike are welcome to study great historical speeches and essays to better their own skills of persuasion, and there's no shame in learning from an expert in persuasion and/or using those skills.
    Did I just read that there's no shame in using the same persuasion methods that fascists use?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    benjs said:

    I'm sorry, but that's a hell of a stretch. If I wanted to learn woodworking, I would seek an opportunity to learn from an expert. Fascist leaders and non-fascist leaders alike are welcome to study great historical speeches and essays to better their own skills of persuasion, and there's no shame in learning from an expert in persuasion and/or using those skills.
    Manipulating the media, victory rallies and private security forces are just good ideas borrowed from Hitler and Mussolini. Trump is just simply using the best ideas from the best minds in history.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,355

    Did I just read that there's no shame in using the same persuasion methods that fascists use?
    Yes. Fascist dictators must persuade if they wish to have people contribute optimally to a cause, so must I when I want to get the most out of our employees and get us acting as a team. Hitler's content should absolutely be condemned, but his methodologies of persuasion weren't inherently nefarious.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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