Global warming

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,080
    edited August 2016
    polaris_x said:

    6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...

    Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556
    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...

    Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
    no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...

    Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
    no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
    That's the American view of economics. Unless one is talking about economics the way, for example, Bill McKibben does in his book Deep Economy, economics is purely a money matter bast of GNP. An economy based solely on production has no concern for the impact on resources or sustainability or a viable future for large mammals.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,080
    edited August 2016
    polaris_x said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    polaris_x said:

    6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...

    Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
    no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
    I see. I agree that's absolutely ridiculous. And I agree with what Brian said about how a lot of people view the economy in the US.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    A relevant email from Bill McKibben today reads:

    Dear Friends,

    [1][IMG]Every once in a while I write something that seems worth sharing.
    Four years ago it was an essay in Rolling Stone about the new math of
    global warming that helped trigger the divestment movement. [2]Today it's
    a piece in The New Republic about the war--the literal war--that global
    warming has become.

    We're used to metaphors: the war on drugs, the war on poverty. But in this
    case carbon and methane--without malice but also without mercy--are waging
    a war on the civilization that emitted them. This year we've lost huge
    swaths of the world's coral; vast sheets of ice disappear daily. Our
    adversary is taking territory and taking lives.

    So what would it mean to fight back? Most of the piece is devoted to that
    possibility: thanks to the engineers who have driven down the cost of
    renewables, we're at the first moment where that's a possibility. If we
    wanted to, we could--as a world--replicate the industrial miracle that won
    World War II. Instead of bombers we'd build turbine blades; in place of
    planes, solar panels. The reporting in the piece shows that putting up
    enough renewables to get us back on the path to 350 parts per million is
    possible--barely.

    Thanks to researchers like Stanford's Mark Jacobson, there's a plan for
    every state and most nations; the question is, can we build for the future
    with as much commitment as we once built for war? The answer to that
    question is in our hands.

    [3]I hope you'll read and share this piece while this odd election season
    drags on; please share it with your friends and family and Facebook crew
    so that we can build the peaceful army we badly need.

    By winter, our movement will be pushing harder than ever. Not just for
    change but for change on the scale we need.

    Onward,

    Bill McKibben for 350.org

    P.S. If you want a sense of what this war looks like today, here are
    [4]some pictures from Louisiana where completely unprecedented flooding
    has now killed 7 and forced 20,000 rescues from homes, cars, and
    hospitals. As in any war, we need to take care of the people being
    impacted: [5]relief efforts can be directed here. And Louisiana is not the
    only place. We're also thinking of our colleagues in sprawling Manila
    today, where flooding has also claimed lives and left thousands in
    evacuation centers. On a more hopeful note, brave fighters in North Dakota
    are taking a remarkable stand right now against a new pipeline planned for
    the edge of the Standing Rock Sioux reservation.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,648
    lukin2006 said:

    Well it happening in Europe and the States.

    This is most definitely not happening in the US.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    edited August 2016
    It's encouraging to me that generally we are less and less global warming denial so this brief video will come as no surprise to most but I found it worth posting here. Physicist Brian Cox is one smart fellow:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/professor-brian-cox-vs.-senator-malcolm-roberts/7746576

    Oh, and thank you CF for bringing this to my attention!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556

    lukin2006 said:

    Well it happening in Europe and the States.

    This is most definitely not happening in the US.
    ?????
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,648
    polaris_x said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Well it happening in Europe and the States.

    This is most definitely not happening in the US.
    ?????
    Lukin said "uncontolled refugees and immigration" is happening in the states. It is not
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556

    polaris_x said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Well it happening in Europe and the States.

    This is most definitely not happening in the US.
    ?????
    Lukin said "uncontolled refugees and immigration" is happening in the states. It is not
    oh ... thought we were talking global warming ... sorry - carry on ...
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087

    lukin2006 said:

    Well it happening in Europe and the States.

    This is most definitely not happening in the US.
    My bad I was under the impression that souther border was a problem
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.

    I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.

    Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556
    brianlux said:

    Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.

    I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.

    Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.

    honestly ... the evidence of global warming hasn't affected me as much as people's attitudes ... our collective heads are so up our asses now it's pathetic ...

    it's interesting how many movies have been made about how people lead such destructive lives and that if we were governed by some AI or computer - they would make us batteries or choose to get rid of us like a plague ... too bad in those movies - the machines are the bad guys! ... should be us!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    polaris_x said:

    brianlux said:

    Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.

    I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.

    Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.

    honestly ... the evidence of global warming hasn't affected me as much as people's attitudes ... our collective heads are so up our asses now it's pathetic ...

    it's interesting how many movies have been made about how people lead such destructive lives and that if we were governed by some AI or computer - they would make us batteries or choose to get rid of us like a plague ... too bad in those movies - the machines are the bad guys! ... should be us!
    I can see that argument. At the same time, we do have the choice to change. We could work to make things better. And why don't we? Maybe we don't because that would not make for a blockbuster movie?

    I still think it is possible for people to change. Certainly more possible than most of the religious myths that get told as literal truth. We just need to convince people to go after the possible and leave fiction as fiction.

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556
    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    Fantastic!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • cottagesteezecottagesteeze St. Paul, MNPosts: 150
    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    "[Obama] has been harshly criticized for policies that objectors see as abuses of executive power and far too burdensome for the economy."

    Typical American response. "Screw the planet, man, we want a strong economy."

    Insanity.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,648
    brianlux said:

    "[Obama] has been harshly criticized for policies that objectors see as abuses of executive power and far too burdensome for the economy."

    Typical American response. "Screw the planet, man, we want a strong economy."

    Insanity.
    Yeah, a lot of good stuff in there.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556
    exactly ... only been saying this for a decade now ...

    Mr. Obama immersed himself in the scientific literature, which left little doubt that the planet was warming at an accelerating rate. “My top science adviser, John Holdren, periodically will issue some chart or report or graph in the morning meetings,” he said, “and they’re terrifying.”

    yet people still look at us enviros as only interested in big gov't and killing jobs ... people are fucking dying because of our ignorance and it's only gonna get worse ...
  • cottagesteezecottagesteeze St. Paul, MNPosts: 150
    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
    I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
    I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
    it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...

    also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
    I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
    it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...

    also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
    This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,556
    brianlux said:

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
    I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
    it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...

    also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
    This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
    these guys built the prototype in a garage with crowdfunding ... imagine if the big automakers really wanted to produce a car that was cheap, reliable and clean!? ... it would be a piece of cake but that's not their objective ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    polaris_x said:

    brianlux said:

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/crowdfunded-electric-car-integrates-solar-panels-self-charging.html

    ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...

    So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
    because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
    I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
    it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...

    also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
    This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
    these guys built the prototype in a garage with crowdfunding ... imagine if the big automakers really wanted to produce a car that was cheap, reliable and clean!? ... it would be a piece of cake but that's not their objective ...
    :plus_one:
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Climate change: California's economy-changing drought could last centuries, say Western University, UCLA scientists

    http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2016/09/16/climate-change-californias-economy-changing-drought-could-last-centuries-say-western-university-ucla-scientists
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,970
    lukin2006 said:

    Climate change: California's economy-changing drought could last centuries, say Western University, UCLA scientists

    http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2016/09/16/climate-change-californias-economy-changing-drought-could-last-centuries-say-western-university-ucla-scientists

    Yes, very possible. Century long or longer droughts have happened in the past and we are pushing it to happen again quickly and more severely. More and more people keep moving here. I see families with three or four kids instead of one or two. ROATs (Ridiculously Oversized American Truck) are all over the place. More strip malls are being constructed while many lie half empty. We still have not replaced tree farming with hemp farming. We had suppressed fire here for so long that now large portions of the state burn throughout the summer instead of having the regular smaller natural fires or smaller fires set by Native Americans that kept the underbrush down. And as far as I know, Governor Brown (who I once strongly supported) still wants to allow fracking in California.

    California will depopulate dramatically as this century progresses. Moving here is an unwise choice.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










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