Global warming

lukin2006

We all agree people are the problem ... yet so many want uncontolled refugees and immigration, sorry just don't get.

rgambs

lukin2006 said:

We all agree people are the problem ... yet so many want uncontolled refugees and immigration, sorry just don't get.

How does that make sense? A person in a war torn country flees and suddenly they count as two people?
The more advanced and free a nation becomes, the lower the birth rate goes, so bringing them into the West is probably a good idea from a population standpoint.

eddiec

lukin2006 said:

We all agree people are the problem ... yet so many want uncontolled refugees and immigration, sorry just don't get.

Who wants uncontrolled refugees? I've never heard anybody, ever, state they want uncontrolled refugees.

lukin2006

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

Somewhat at least it seems. Canada has much more strict rules for immigration. Maybe not a bad idea.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

Somewhat at least it seems. Canada has much more strict rules for immigration. Maybe not a bad idea.

Not even close to strict enough as far as I'm concerned...our government just dropped visa requirements for Mexicans ... and the bureaucrats advised against dropping visa requirements because false claims cost billions to process ... immigration is fucking joke as far as I'm concerned...

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

Somewhat at least it seems. Canada has much more strict rules for immigration. Maybe not a bad idea.

Not even close to strict enough as far as I'm concerned...our government just dropped visa requirements for Mexicans ... and the bureaucrats advised against dropping visa requirements because false claims cost billions to process ... immigration is fucking joke as far as I'm concerned...

It's interesting that you say that and I'm wondering if your restrictions have loosened up considerably over the last decade or so. When W was elected president for the second time I talked with a couple who were so unhappy about that they wanted to move to Canada. THere were both well paid, very skilled professionals and told me they couldn't move to Canada because the Canadian gov. put strict limits on who could move there. Only people with very specialized skills that were needed were let in they told me. Does this sound accurate for pre-Obama years?

brianlux

Another contributor to global warming is tree loss. Hemp can replace a lot of things threes are used for and because it grows easily and fast and is nitrogen fixing, it is far better than trees for many purposes. Lets grow more hemp and cut fewer trees!

But whether made form virgin paper, recycled paper, or even hemp paper, junk mail is a waste of resources and energy.

One of my pet peeves is "environmental" organizations sending me junk mail. Is there anything more ironic?! I have cut my support for a number of these organizations for that very reason. The ones that send less crap, like Sea Shepherds, Wildlands Network, and Natural Resources Defense Council get more support from me as a result which is fine by me. Organizations that spend a lot of money and resources raising funds and sending out junk mail are less effective in the long run than the ones who spend the money and resources taking action and actually DOING something besides raising money and making claims about how environmentally correct they are. To them I say , WRONG!

Those three organizations I mentioned above are the kind that actually DO something useful.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

Somewhat at least it seems. Canada has much more strict rules for immigration. Maybe not a bad idea.

Not even close to strict enough as far as I'm concerned...our government just dropped visa requirements for Mexicans ... and the bureaucrats advised against dropping visa requirements because false claims cost billions to process ... immigration is fucking joke as far as I'm concerned...

It's interesting that you say that and I'm wondering if your restrictions have loosened up considerably over the last decade or so. When W was elected president for the second time I talked with a couple who were so unhappy about that they wanted to move to Canada. THere were both well paid, very skilled professionals and told me they couldn't move to Canada because the Canadian gov. put strict limits on who could move there. Only people with very specialized skills that were needed were let in they told me. Does this sound accurate for pre-Obama years?

I think anytime your dealing with the government it changes on whim. As for your friends case, usually if you have a skill and their is a shortage you are be able to come in, even as a temporary foreign worker. Remember Canada's a large country in terms of size ... but most of the country no wants to live in because of the cold...so I say its a delicate balance of allowing the right mix as well as allowing enough immigrants to maintain government revenues in order to support social programs ... so I do get the need for immigrants. Back when I was in high school eons ago the amount of Canadians having children was trending downward and from my own experience i know a fair amount of childless couples, so whether the trend is continuing i'd have to dig into stats Canada to find out. As PJSoul has pointed out in another thread, new arrivals tend to migrate to the larger urban areas putting an increasing strain on housing and social services. So I would say their is no easy answer. But truthfully Brian I don't get why Californians don't want tighter immigration controls, when I was last their I was extremely disappointed, it just seems so over populated. I feel the same way about where I live in southern ontario near detroit. The amount of urban sprawl taking place the last few years is just sad, now there is a proposal to build a 2 billion dollar hospital that will be built on prime farm land instead of building it on the many vacant industrial lands in the area that could use a little renewal...just doesn't make sense. and all of this sprawl has got me considering leaving Ontario.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

Another contributor to global warming is tree loss. Hemp can replace a lot of things threes are used for and because it grows easily and fast and is nitrogen fixing, it is far better than trees for many purposes. Lets grow more hemp and cut fewer trees!

But whether made form virgin paper, recycled paper, or even hemp paper, junk mail is a waste of resources and energy.

One of my pet peeves is "environmental" organizations sending me junk mail. Is there anything more ironic?! I have cut my support for a number of these organizations for that very reason. The ones that send less crap, like Sea Shepherds, Wildlands Network, and Natural Resources Defense Council get more support from me as a result which is fine by me. Organizations that spend a lot of money and resources raising funds and sending out junk mail are less effective in the long run than the ones who spend the money and resources taking action and actually DOING something besides raising money and making claims about how environmentally correct they are. To them I say , WRONG!

Those three organizations I mentioned above are the kind that actually DO something useful.

Agreed...and thats a simple thing for any home owner, municipality or provincial/state and federal government to participate in and develop sound policies around...

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Well it happening in Europe and the States.

Somewhat at least it seems. Canada has much more strict rules for immigration. Maybe not a bad idea.

Not even close to strict enough as far as I'm concerned...our government just dropped visa requirements for Mexicans ... and the bureaucrats advised against dropping visa requirements because false claims cost billions to process ... immigration is fucking joke as far as I'm concerned...

It's interesting that you say that and I'm wondering if your restrictions have loosened up considerably over the last decade or so. When W was elected president for the second time I talked with a couple who were so unhappy about that they wanted to move to Canada. THere were both well paid, very skilled professionals and told me they couldn't move to Canada because the Canadian gov. put strict limits on who could move there. Only people with very specialized skills that were needed were let in they told me. Does this sound accurate for pre-Obama years?

I think anytime your dealing with the government it changes on whim. As for your friends case, usually if you have a skill and their is a shortage you are be able to come in, even as a temporary foreign worker. Remember Canada's a large country in terms of size ... but most of the country no wants to live in because of the cold...so I say its a delicate balance of allowing the right mix as well as allowing enough immigrants to maintain government revenues in order to support social programs ... so I do get the need for immigrants. Back when I was in high school eons ago the amount of Canadians having children was trending downward and from my own experience i know a fair amount of childless couples, so whether the trend is continuing i'd have to dig into stats Canada to find out. As PJSoul has pointed out in another thread, new arrivals tend to migrate to the larger urban areas putting an increasing strain on housing and social services. So I would say their is no easy answer. But truthfully Brian I don't get why Californians don't want tighter immigration controls, when I was last their I was extremely disappointed, it just seems so over populated. I feel the same way about where I live in southern ontario near detroit. The amount of urban sprawl taking place the last few years is just sad, now there is a proposal to build a 2 billion dollar hospital that will be built on prime farm land instead of building it on the many vacant industrial lands in the area that could use a little renewal...just doesn't make sense. and all of this sprawl has got me considering leaving Ontario.

Yeah, I think it makes a lot more sense to help other countries find ways to make their own homeland more livable rather than have such huge numbers of people migrating. That gets a bit more sticky when it comes to political asylum and I don't know the solution to that problem. As for California, this place has been ruined over the last several decades by the huge influx of people. Same is true with much of western Nevada to our east though I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to live there. Placerville where I live is a great example of sprawl. I have been here 20 years (almost to the date- ) and the place has changed dramatically. People move here to get away from the massive sprawl of places like the S.F. Bay area and L.A. and then want their big chains stores so they don't have to go to Sacramento to "shop". The bay area where I grew up in the 50's is worse. Nothing but sprawl, congestion, ruined ecosystems. Same thing with the agricultural lands. I took a geography class at Cal State Chico years ago and the professor informed us that the building in which our class was being held was built on the most fertile soil in California- 20 feet of top soil turned into buildings. Insane.

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

So people are really the problem behind global warming/climate change? Maybe we should first stop over populating the earth.

Well yeah, how do you propose that's done? They've already tried it in India and CHINA, and in both cases it became a human rights disaster that lead to abuse, torture, murder, and corruption. Only education can do it, but wherever women aren't empowered, that isn't possible either.

Exactly right. Religious beliefs, lack of education (I'm sure the first point contributes to this one), and lack of access to health care services / birth control are probably the three main contributing factors I see. Educated people have fewer kids. Non-religious people have fewer kids. The Catholic church seems to be a couple of centuries behind with their dogma, and their missionary work in underdeveloped nations has only lead to more of their nonsense being spread about to people who apparently don't know any better. Instead of missionary work to spread mythologies, how about missionary work to improve education and health care services. Muslims need to slow their roll, too. Birth rates in countries with Muslim majorities are almost twice the world population growth rate.

So get rid of religion, raise peoples' level of education, and provide health care services. Simple!

Ok, so #1 is impossible and I believe is the main contributor. So our best bet at this point, unfortunately, is bubonic plague pandemic, or cholera pandemic, or something. Very unpleasant to think about, but I can't see humans limiting population through intelligent means as long as religion is in the way.

100% agreed.
On the upside and the very downside, a massive bacterial plague that will decrease the population significantly is highly likely, and probably not in the too far distant future. With the extreme misuse of antibacterials and antibiotics, we're ripe for a worldwide natural cull. Morbid I know.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

We all agree people are the problem ... yet so many want uncontolled refugees and immigration, sorry just don't get.

Well, first i'll remind youbthat nobody wants uncontrolled refugees and immigration. I don't get why you said that. Anyway, judging from this comment, you favour just leaving people who are suffering at the hands of others to suffer for a very long time until they eventually die (after still managing to have babies, in many cases), mostly from malnutrition and a lack of medical care and adequate shelter and a lack of sanitation. That wouldn't reduce population at all. It would just make the world a much colder and inhumane place than it already is, while the population continues to grow without any connection to immigration or refugee issues. I'm a bit surprised you said this TBH.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

We all agree people are the problem ... yet so many want uncontolled refugees and immigration, sorry just don't get.

Well, first i'll remind youbthat nobody wants uncontrolled refugees and immigration. I don't get why you said that. Anyway, judging from this comment, you favour just leaving people who are suffering at the hands of others to suffer for a very long time until they eventually die (after still managing to have babies, in many cases), mostly from malnutrition and a lack of medical care and adequate shelter and a lack of sanitation. That wouldn't reduce population at all. It would just make the world a much colder and inhumane place than it already is, while the population continues to grow without any connection to immigration or refugee issues. I'm a bit surprised you said this TBH.

Well we got many people here suffering as well ... our first nations for example, many who can not even get clean drinking water (so I guess they'll eventually call themselves third nations people)...so shoot me for thinking we should fix our problems first before taking on other problem, the uncontrolled immigration is happening in Europe right now, how many illegals are picking fruit in the states just so people have cheaper produce ... but please feel free to read something into my comments thats a tally not there. Oh by the way, why do you think there is a shortage of skilled trades happening in this country, because its cheaper for the government to pluck them from other countries than to actually attack the problem head on.

PJ_Soul

Do you have any clue how difficult it is to become a Canadian citizen?? Or how much effort Canada Customs puts into preventing illegal workers from entering the country? I am not saying there aren't issues with Immigration Canada, but this doesn't even really link to the topic at hand at all.
I am sorry if this offends you Lukin2006, but just lately you seem to have taken a noticeable step towards the extreme. You never used to make such non-specific blanket statements that come off as inflammatory. Is something going on with you?

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

Do you have any clue how difficult it is to become a Canadian citizen?? Or how much effort Canada Customs puts into preventing illegal workers from entering the country? I am not saying there aren't issues with Immigration Canada, but this doesn't even really link to the topic at hand at all.
I am sorry if this offends you Lukin2006, but just lately you seem to have taken a noticeable step towards the extreme. You never used to make such non-specific blanket statements that come off as inflammatory. Is something going on with you?

Not offended at all, at least I'm not a radical liberal ... now that would offend me. Believe me some faceless person I've never met on a bands website can not offend ... have a great day.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Do you have any clue how difficult it is to become a Canadian citizen?? Or how much effort Canada Customs puts into preventing illegal workers from entering the country? I am not saying there aren't issues with Immigration Canada, but this doesn't even really link to the topic at hand at all.
I am sorry if this offends you Lukin2006, but just lately you seem to have taken a noticeable step towards the extreme. You never used to make such non-specific blanket statements that come off as inflammatory. Is something going on with you?

Not offended at all, at least I'm not a radical liberal ... now that would offend me. Believe me some faceless person I've never met on a bands website can not offend ... have a great day.

I was honestly asking to see if you're okay. Sudden personality changes are worrisome.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Do you have any clue how difficult it is to become a Canadian citizen?? Or how much effort Canada Customs puts into preventing illegal workers from entering the country? I am not saying there aren't issues with Immigration Canada, but this doesn't even really link to the topic at hand at all.
I am sorry if this offends you Lukin2006, but just lately you seem to have taken a noticeable step towards the extreme. You never used to make such non-specific blanket statements that come off as inflammatory. Is something going on with you?

Not offended at all, at least I'm not a radical liberal ... now that would offend me. Believe me some faceless person I've never met on a bands website can not offend ... have a great day.

I was honestly asking to see if you're okay. Sudden personality changes are worrisome.

Will all a bit cranky these days. It's the excessive heat caused by climate change!

brianlux

(^^^Lame attempt to get back on topic )

lukin2006

This is Ontario's energy mix as provided by the official website ...

http://www.ieso.ca/Pages/Power-Data/Supply.aspx