Stanford rapist

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

exactly!

it is somewhat insensitive in that if we are to attach personal emotions to this story ... but my comment was a rational one based on an objective look at this story ...

yes, we all get that was your point. but it's not valid.

you are saying she is at least partly at fault for the assault happening. she is not. she should be able to be black out drunk and taken off all of her clothes and start masturbating on a platform and still have every right not to be touched. case closed.

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

exactly!

it is somewhat insensitive in that if we are to attach personal emotions to this story ... but my comment was a rational one based on an objective look at this story ...

yes, we all get that was your point. but it's not valid.

you are saying she is at least partly at fault for the assault happening. she is not. she should be able to be black out drunk and taken off all of her clothes and start masturbating on a platform and still have every right not to be touched. case closed.

that's not my point ... ughhhh

you originally said she needs to hold herself to account. she did. she acknowledged she drank more than she should have.

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

for women. therein lies the problem with this message. guys can do what they want (get blind drunk) without consequence, but a woman can't. this message is no different than saying "don't wear a short skirt if you know what's good for you".

That is absolutely ridiculous. Maintaining consciousness so that you can AT LEAST call for help if attacked is not at all the same, and it's absolutely fucking ridiculous to conflate the two. Getting blackout drunk has serious potential consequences for men too, they are just different.

Being a woman is different than being a man, if for no other reason than that all women have something that the scumiest, lowest men are willing to take without permission. If I had a daughter I would consider it a serious failure as a parent to not make her aware that there are predators who will treat her as prey. Basic Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense weapons, and most important, maintaining awareness are the realities that all women should adopt in this world where human nature is shit.

It isn't about how fair it is that women need to be more careful than men, fair is the place you go for cotton candy. It is reality.
That doesn't take the blame away from the scummy, lowlife men who pose a threat to women, and it doesn't place blame on the victim, it simply addresses the reality of life among humans.

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

for women. therein lies the problem with this message. guys can do what they want (get blind drunk) without consequence, but a woman can't. this message is no different than saying "don't wear a short skirt if you know what's good for you".

That is absolutely ridiculous. Maintaining consciousness so that you can AT LEAST call for help if attacked is not at all the same, and it's absolutely fucking ridiculous to conflate the two. Getting blackout drunk has serious potential consequences for men too, they are just different.

Being a woman is different than being a man, if for no other reason than that all women have something that the scumiest, lowest men are willing to take without permission. If I had a daughter I would consider it a serious failure as a parent to not make her aware that there are predators who will treat her as prey. Basic Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense weapons, and most important, maintaining awareness are the realities that all women should adopt in this world where human nature is shit.

It isn't about how fair it is that women need to be more careful than men, fair is the place you go for cotton candy. It is reality.
That doesn't take the blame away from the scummy, lowlife men who pose a threat to women, and it doesn't place blame on the victim, it simply addresses the reality of life among humans.

yeah, so let's just accept reality the way it is instead of trying to change that reality.

you never got so drunk you lost your faculties? we all have. and we all have the right to assume we won't be assaulted.

slippery slopes.

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

exactly!

it is somewhat insensitive in that if we are to attach personal emotions to this story ... but my comment was a rational one based on an objective look at this story ...

yes, we all get that was your point. but it's not valid.

you are saying she is at least partly at fault for the assault happening. she is not. she should be able to be black out drunk and taken off all of her clothes and start masturbating on a platform and still have every right not to be touched. case closed.

that's not my point ... ughhhh

you originally said she needs to hold herself to account. she did. she acknowledged she drank more than she should have.

she calls it an 'amateur mistake' ... and yes, she does call alcohol a factor in this story ... i just don't think it's acknowledged in a way where we can learn from it ...

i agree, she could do all the things you said and she shouldn't be touched ... but are we to ignore that aspect of the story altogether? ...

no one ignored it. SHE ACKNOWLEDGED IT. what did you want her to do? come out and say "this never would have happened if I hadn't drank?". that would be a fabulous message to send.

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

exactly!

it is somewhat insensitive in that if we are to attach personal emotions to this story ... but my comment was a rational one based on an objective look at this story ...

yes, we all get that was your point. but it's not valid.

you are saying she is at least partly at fault for the assault happening. she is not. she should be able to be black out drunk and taken off all of her clothes and start masturbating on a platform and still have every right not to be touched. case closed.

that's not my point ... ughhhh

you originally said she needs to hold herself to account. she did. she acknowledged she drank more than she should have.

she calls it an 'amateur mistake' ... and yes, she does call alcohol a factor in this story ... i just don't think it's acknowledged in a way where we can learn from it ...

i agree, she could do all the things you said and she shouldn't be touched ... but are we to ignore that aspect of the story altogether? ...

no one ignored it. SHE ACKNOWLEDGED IT. what did you want her to do? come out and say "this never would have happened if I hadn't drank?". that would be a fabulous message to send.

Perhaps that's just the message young women need to hear.
In this case it's probably accurate. Would this swimmer have held her down and raped her if she was fighting and screaming? Probably not.

Sugar coating reality doesn't help anybody.

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

for women. therein lies the problem with this message. guys can do what they want (get blind drunk) without consequence, but a woman can't. this message is no different than saying "don't wear a short skirt if you know what's good for you".

That is absolutely ridiculous. Maintaining consciousness so that you can AT LEAST call for help if attacked is not at all the same, and it's absolutely fucking ridiculous to conflate the two. Getting blackout drunk has serious potential consequences for men too, they are just different.

Being a woman is different than being a man, if for no other reason than that all women have something that the scumiest, lowest men are willing to take without permission. If I had a daughter I would consider it a serious failure as a parent to not make her aware that there are predators who will treat her as prey. Basic Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense weapons, and most important, maintaining awareness are the realities that all women should adopt in this world where human nature is shit.

It isn't about how fair it is that women need to be more careful than men, fair is the place you go for cotton candy. It is reality.
That doesn't take the blame away from the scummy, lowlife men who pose a threat to women, and it doesn't place blame on the victim, it simply addresses the reality of life among humans.

yeah, so let's just accept reality the way it is instead of trying to change that reality.

you never got so drunk you lost your faculties? we all have. and we all have the right to assume we won't be assaulted.

slippery slopes.

Fuck no I haven't!

You can try to change reality all you want, as long as you are prepared to deal with it as it currently exists.
What makes you think the two can't coexist???

Do you leave your wallet on the table when you use the restroom at a restaurant??
Why not? We all have the right to assume we won't be stolen from don't we?

That's not living with reality.

mickeyrat said:

maybe its time for colleges universities and the greek system to outlaw alcohol in the frats and sororities

mickeyrat said:

maybe its time for colleges universities and the greek system to outlaw alcohol in the frats and sororities

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

polaris_x said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

Gern Blansten said:

polaris_x said:

Enkidu said:

A friend of a friend just wrote this. https://medium.com/@StefWilliams25/rape-ribeyes-and-the-utter-lack-of-personal-responsibility-5be5f3e61864#.b1n2mnib5

she clearly needs an editor ... like is spell check not available?

in any case - this story is all too familiar ... i do think what's in pandora's box should be discussed but will never be because it's now considered victim-blaming ... but the reality is that there are a multitude of consequences associated with getting that drunk that would have left her crucified by society but because of what happened - it's not being discussed at all ...

before people get bent out of shape ... i don't condone rape or sexual assault of any kind and this asshole clearly did not get a harsh enough sentence ... it's simply that the victim has to hold herself to account ... saying she drank too much not factoring she didn't have the tolerance of when she was in college is her rationalizing her own role in this ... again - i'm not making excuses for the assailant here nor saying she deserved it ... just asking where she is in acknowledging the fact she got so damn drunk that she couldn't remember a single thing ...

Drinking so much you don't remember shit isn't a felony. Rape is.

i'm not saying it is ...

but if she drinks that much and gets in a car - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and vandalizes a house - she'd be crucified; if she drinks that much and breaks a leg falling down stairs - no one would have too much sympathy for her ... if any of the above happened - we'd be sitting around discussing how irresponsible she was with her alcohol consumption but we aren't ...

And the thing that all of your examples have in common is that no one else attacked her. If someone had PUSHED her down those stairs, I'm pretty sure people would be after the pusher, not the drunk pushee for standing too close to a flight of stairs while wasted.

exactly...holy shit

um, yeah. polaris, I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

as expected ... don't think anyone gets my point ... oh well ... too much to ask of the train I think ...

I get your point, and it does have some validity, though it is insensitive by very nature. I don't see it as victim blaming, but I'm sure some will. As far as I see it, you aren't calling for anything more than for young people (women particularly) to take this as an example of how important it is for each individual to ensure their own safety by maintaining situational awareness.
It is not OK for the attacker (or anyone on his side) to invoke the binge drinking culture in any way, but I feel it is OK for those on the victim's side to try and pass on the message that people can't be trusted and getting blackout drunk is a very bad idea under ANY circumstance.

for women. therein lies the problem with this message. guys can do what they want (get blind drunk) without consequence, but a woman can't. this message is no different than saying "don't wear a short skirt if you know what's good for you".

That is absolutely ridiculous. Maintaining consciousness so that you can AT LEAST call for help if attacked is not at all the same, and it's absolutely fucking ridiculous to conflate the two. Getting blackout drunk has serious potential consequences for men too, they are just different.

Being a woman is different than being a man, if for no other reason than that all women have something that the scumiest, lowest men are willing to take without permission. If I had a daughter I would consider it a serious failure as a parent to not make her aware that there are predators who will treat her as prey. Basic Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense weapons, and most important, maintaining awareness are the realities that all women should adopt in this world where human nature is shit.

It isn't about how fair it is that women need to be more careful than men, fair is the place you go for cotton candy. It is reality.
That doesn't take the blame away from the scummy, lowlife men who pose a threat to women, and it doesn't place blame on the victim, it simply addresses the reality of life among humans.

yeah, so let's just accept reality the way it is instead of trying to change that reality.

you never got so drunk you lost your faculties? we all have. and we all have the right to assume we won't be assaulted.

slippery slopes.

Fuck no I haven't!

You can try to change reality all you want, as long as you are prepared to deal with it as it currently exists.
What makes you think the two can't coexist???

Do you leave your wallet on the table when you use the restroom at a restaurant??
Why not? We all have the right to assume we won't be stolen from don't we?

That's not living with reality.

well then you get today's prize.

I never said the two can't coexist. of course it does.

not on purpose. but it's happened. just like this girl. no one intends on getting that blitzed. she made a mistake. she owned up to it. but if I accidentally leave my wallet on the table and it gets stolen, the first person to tell me "well you shouldn't have left it there" gets a poke in the eye.