People are saying if you get totally shitfaced, that might not work out so great given there are f**king scumbags out there that will rape you... and worse if in the hands of an extreme sociopath.
Do people think we should not educate our daughters on the importance of exercising caution when out? Go ahead with your daughters if that's what you think, but I understand that no matter how much we try and educate men... there are going to be several that are numb to such messages. And as such, as sad as this might be, I will teach my daughter to be careful.
People seem to this think this is MORE important than teaching their sons anything, or at least that how people act. That is the problem. The woman's behaviour invariably becomes a focus of conversation, just like it has here, and the discussion that really has to be had - the one that MEN have to have about themselves and each other - never seems to really materialize. Let alone any actual action on any level. That is what the problem is.
This, so hard! If we are going to teach our daughters to be safe then there has to be just as much focus on teaching the sons not to be a threat. Until this is the focus the cycle will continue.
This is completely ridiculous and untrue. Teaching sons not to be a threat? Really? "Hey son, don't be a threat to a woman when you get older....",
Talk about dumb...
How is it "ridiculous and untrue"? I know there are many good and conscientious fathers out there, but also are many who perpetuate the mindset of the father of the fast swimmer. It IS incumbent on them - as a parent (so I extend this to mothers as well) - to teach respect, boundaries, not taking advantage. Have integrity and be a decent human being, even when no one is looking you won't get caught for acting like an animal.
This is basic human empathy and compassion. Some are born with it some are not. Evolution leaves some black sheep.
Literally the most ignorant and stupidest comment I have read in I can't think how long.
Anything you lose from being honest You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
People are saying if you get totally shitfaced, that might not work out so great given there are f**king scumbags out there that will rape you... and worse if in the hands of an extreme sociopath.
Do people think we should not educate our daughters on the importance of exercising caution when out? Go ahead with your daughters if that's what you think, but I understand that no matter how much we try and educate men... there are going to be several that are numb to such messages. And as such, as sad as this might be, I will teach my daughter to be careful.
People seem to this think this is MORE important than teaching their sons anything, or at least that how people act. That is the problem. The woman's behaviour invariably becomes a focus of conversation, just like it has here, and the discussion that really has to be had - the one that MEN have to have about themselves and each other - never seems to really materialize. Let alone any actual action on any level. That is what the problem is.
This, so hard! If we are going to teach our daughters to be safe then there has to be just as much focus on teaching the sons not to be a threat. Until this is the focus the cycle will continue.
This is completely ridiculous and untrue. Teaching sons not to be a threat? Really? "Hey son, don't be a threat to a woman when you get older....",
Talk about dumb...
How is it "ridiculous and untrue"? I know there are many good and conscientious fathers out there, but also are many who perpetuate the mindset of the father of the fast swimmer. It IS incumbent on them - as a parent (so I extend this to mothers as well) - to teach respect, boundaries, not taking advantage. Have integrity and be a decent human being, even when no one is looking you won't get caught for acting like an animal.
This is basic human empathy and compassion. Some are born with it some are not. Evolution leaves some black sheep.
Literally the most ignorant and stupidest comment I have read in I can't think how long.
Eventually people who have the capacity to do these things to another human will no longer be created. Will take a long time though.
People are saying if you get totally shitfaced, that might not work out so great given there are f**king scumbags out there that will rape you... and worse if in the hands of an extreme sociopath.
Do people think we should not educate our daughters on the importance of exercising caution when out? Go ahead with your daughters if that's what you think, but I understand that no matter how much we try and educate men... there are going to be several that are numb to such messages. And as such, as sad as this might be, I will teach my daughter to be careful.
People seem to this think this is MORE important than teaching their sons anything, or at least that how people act. That is the problem. The woman's behaviour invariably becomes a focus of conversation, just like it has here, and the discussion that really has to be had - the one that MEN have to have about themselves and each other - never seems to really materialize. Let alone any actual action on any level. That is what the problem is.
This, so hard! If we are going to teach our daughters to be safe then there has to be just as much focus on teaching the sons not to be a threat. Until this is the focus the cycle will continue.
This is completely ridiculous and untrue. Teaching sons not to be a threat? Really? "Hey son, don't be a threat to a woman when you get older....",
Talk about dumb...
How is it "ridiculous and untrue"? I know there are many good and conscientious fathers out there, but also are many who perpetuate the mindset of the father of the fast swimmer. It IS incumbent on them - as a parent (so I extend this to mothers as well) - to teach respect, boundaries, not taking advantage. Have integrity and be a decent human being, even when no one is looking you won't get caught for acting like an animal.
This is basic human empathy and compassion. Some are born with it some are not. Evolution leaves some black sheep.
Literally the most ignorant and stupidest comment I have read in I can't think how long.
Eventually people who have the capacity to do these things to another human will no longer be created. Will take a long time though.
I can't even! Just too dumb.
I mean I know you're trolling for kicks but this is a serious issue. Could you at least keep that evolution hindering behaviour in the politics threads where it does the least harm.
Anything you lose from being honest You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
People are saying if you get totally shitfaced, that might not work out so great given there are f**king scumbags out there that will rape you... and worse if in the hands of an extreme sociopath.
Do people think we should not educate our daughters on the importance of exercising caution when out? Go ahead with your daughters if that's what you think, but I understand that no matter how much we try and educate men... there are going to be several that are numb to such messages. And as such, as sad as this might be, I will teach my daughter to be careful.
People seem to this think this is MORE important than teaching their sons anything, or at least that how people act. That is the problem. The woman's behaviour invariably becomes a focus of conversation, just like it has here, and the discussion that really has to be had - the one that MEN have to have about themselves and each other - never seems to really materialize. Let alone any actual action on any level. That is what the problem is.
It's the pragmatic part of the discussion.
What a f**king stupid thing to try and make an argument out of. I'll put it point blank so there's no confusion about what I'm trying to say:
1. This victim is not to blame in any way for what happened. 2. The fast swimmer is a predatory, deranged mutant that can die for all I care. 3. There's going to be (and already are) many more deranged mutant males that are going to rape our daughters. 4. If you don't want your daughter raped by a mutant... warn her and educate her about mutants. * This may not be enough... mutant males can be challenging.
Duh. Of course the problem is males acting badly. Tell us how to get the message to all our males so the problem is solved. And once that problem is solved... let me know and I'll drop my guard and tell my daughter she has nothing to concern herself with. Until then... I think a 'useful' part of the discussion is to speak of strategies to prevent harm from coming to our loved ones. Don't misconstrue these messages as victim blaming.
I never said it wasn't a useful part of the discussion. I'm saying that the discussion with, by, and about men is severely lacking, and that is actually 100% of the problem at its core.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I never said it wasn't a useful part of the discussion. I'm saying that the discussion with, by, and about men is severely lacking, and that is actually 100% of the problem at its core.
Not in my household and not in my circle of friends. We're like those Swedes- if you were in trouble and needed is... we'd be there for you even if harm to us was inevitable.
The discussions you desire are happening; however, they aren't happening everywhere and will never happen everywhere given how shitty some people are.
We've had a lot of time to 'evolve', but it has become painfully obvious that the human race will be eradicated before we ever evolve to the species everyone is dreaming about in this thread. Rape aside... look at the potential of men with things like mass murder. Have you ever looked at the gender disparity between men and women for serial murderers? How many ISIS assholes are women? Getting the point? There's a lot of men that dig being really evil and scoff at the notion of being gentle.
There's useless f**ks out there. Be careful around them, Soul. You can't even tell who bares fangs given all the 'friend' rapes we hear of or go unreported. Useless f**ks. They're out there.
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I actually thought they were different offenses. rape being actual force able sexual intercourse, sexual assault being unwanted sexual advances via other means (touching, fingering, etc).
But she was raped, not sexually assaulted. This backtracking idiot letter-writer referred to it as such.
was she? I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm just saying I didn't read anything that suggested he had intercourse with her. I thought it was all digital stuff.
penetration is penetration...be it penis, finger or tree branch. non-consensual penetration is rape.
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^^^ Anyone who does this to a woman is missing a part of their brain and will never be right for the rest of their life. So have a talk about respecting women but to include advice on how not to be a threat - dumb.
What part of your brain is missing?
No it's true. You can't unteach a rapist. A person is going to rape or not.
I never said it wasn't a useful part of the discussion. I'm saying that the discussion with, by, and about men is severely lacking, and that is actually 100% of the problem at its core.
I think the counter point that 30 is making (and pjfan is failing miserably to make) is that raising a decent human shouldn't need to include a "don't tape" talk, that is just the overkill extension to the respect a real man has for women. The people who rape never learned basic respect for anything but themselves (and probably money) and a "don't rape" talk would fall on deaf ears. Any parent who would have the discussion with, by, and about men has probably already raised a man who won't violate women, but those same good parents might fail to properly prepare their daughters for the literal monsters that are waiting in the dark.
That's why I think cases like this are teaching opportunities, it isn't enough to make intangible references to bad things that might happen, people need to see concrete occurences that involve real people so they can actually touch and feel the reality of failing to take personal safety seriously.
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
I thing dig deep is right, it comes down to a deep, fundamental worldview... Frankly, I think it is much like saying people need to be educated or they will vote for Trump, or that people need economic security or they will commit crime, etc... These are big problems that society is continually failing (for generations) to correct, and it is a much more long term and difficult prospect than the immediate and easy solution of teaching young women how not to be victims. It is similar, I think, to people saying we need to fix socioeconomic issues to stop gun violence in the US... Sure, that's true, but it is a monumental (possibly impossible) task and the faster, more attainable goal is to just tighter the availability of guns.
i still think alcohol is another aspect of the conversation no one wants to talk about ... they call it impairment for a reason ... how many people are gonna say they would do this that or the other when sober but then once they have drinks in them - everything changes ...
again - so we don't have to go through it one more time - i'm not blaming the victim here ... read the studies on sexual assault victims and see how many of them occur while they are impaired/drunk ... again - i agree, that women should be able to get drunk without getting assaulted but it's definitely a factor ...
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
So this is about men bashing? Fathers, in general, are failing to raise their sons correctly and are solely at the root of this problem where they need to dig deep?
Interesting.
Generalizations are viciously attacked on this forum, but you feel really comfortable making one in this context.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you in many cases (the same ones I suggest we safeguard our women from), but are you saying mothers get a pass on this one? I grew up respecting my mother and as such, I respect women. My dad never taught me to respect my mother- my mother got it through her actions.
The fast swimmer's mother never wrote a letter revealing her idiocy, but I'm assuming she's a full fledged idiot and she's just as culpable as the father for raising their rib eye eating pride and joy- unless... it can be established that the father spoke to the joys of violating women and encouraged and nurtured the dark side of their mutant offspring.
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
I thing dig deep is right, it comes down to a deep, fundamental worldview... Frankly, I think it is much like saying people need to be educated or they will vote for Trump, or that people need economic security or they will commit crime, etc... These are big problems that society is continually failing (for generations) to correct, and it is a much more long term and difficult prospect than the immediate and easy solution of teaching young women how not to be victims. It is similar, I think, to people saying we need to fix socioeconomic issues to stop gun violence in the US... Sure, that's true, but it is a monumental (possibly impossible) task and the faster, more attainable goal is to just tighter the availability of guns.
Everyone needs to realize and understand that there are bad people in the world and always will be. I spent most of my career in the social services and can tell you right now that most people have no concept of how much really bad shit goes on all around them all of the time. People need to know and be aware of their surroundings. Do not put yourself in situations that make it easy for people to take advantage of you because in every crowd there is probably someone that would jump at the opportunity. I do not want to come across as blaming the victim, but there are so many ways this situation could have been avoided. Maybe in a perfect world it would be fine to pass out drunk next to a dumpster, but in the real world that type of behavior will only lead to negative consequences because sickos like this are everywhere! It was not mere coincidence that one just happened to be there...they are all around. The analogy of guns is what I disagree with though. On one side you say that the easy solution is teaching women not to be victims. How about teaching our youth not to be violent? Lack of morals and ethics is what leads to this behavior, not availability or alcohol or guns. We need more people leading by example and watching out for each other. I praise the ones that stopped this asshole in the act instead of walking by like some would do. I actually kinda wish they had been armed though...preventing a rape is a justified use of deadly force in most states. Would have saved the taxpayers some money...and this conversation would be null.
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I actually thought they were different offenses. rape being actual force able sexual intercourse, sexual assault being unwanted sexual advances via other means (touching, fingering, etc).
But she was raped, not sexually assaulted. This backtracking idiot letter-writer referred to it as such.
was she? I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm just saying I didn't read anything that suggested he had intercourse with her. I thought it was all digital stuff.
penetration is penetration...be it penis, finger or tree branch. non-consensual penetration is rape.
I know that. I'm just talking in the legal sense. I'm not trying to diminish it. In Canada it's all sexual assault. I just thought it was catergorized differently in the States, that's all.
No Thirty. It's not about bashing men. It's about calling men out for not taking any responsibility for what is a male problem. For some reason women bear the burden of rape, of dealing with it, of trying to publicize the problem, and trying to being awareness, while it is men who need to pull their shit together and do something meaningful about the problem. All men. Otherwise widespread rape and sexual assaults on women will continue just the same as it is now. Men - good men - need to take responsibility for this safety crisis, as they are the only ones who can stop it. A male movement is required. Some leaders need to step up.to the cause.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
I thing dig deep is right, it comes down to a deep, fundamental worldview... Frankly, I think it is much like saying people need to be educated or they will vote for Trump, or that people need economic security or they will commit crime, etc... These are big problems that society is continually failing (for generations) to correct, and it is a much more long term and difficult prospect than the immediate and easy solution of teaching young women how not to be victims. It is similar, I think, to people saying we need to fix socioeconomic issues to stop gun violence in the US... Sure, that's true, but it is a monumental (possibly impossible) task and the faster, more attainable goal is to just tighter the availability of guns.
Everyone needs to realize and understand that there are bad people in the world and always will be. I spent most of my career in the social services and can tell you right now that most people have no concept of how much really bad shit goes on all around them all of the time. People need to know and be aware of their surroundings. Do not put yourself in situations that make it easy for people to take advantage of you because in every crowd there is probably someone that would jump at the opportunity. I do not want to come across as blaming the victim, but there are so many ways this situation could have been avoided. Maybe in a perfect world it would be fine to pass out drunk next to a dumpster, but in the real world that type of behavior will only lead to negative consequences because sickos like this are everywhere! It was not mere coincidence that one just happened to be there...they are all around. The analogy of guns is what I disagree with though. On one side you say that the easy solution is teaching women not to be victims. How about teaching our youth not to be violent? Lack of morals and ethics is what leads to this behavior, not availability or alcohol or guns. We need more people leading by example and watching out for each other. I praise the ones that stopped this asshole in the act instead of walking by like some would do. I actually kinda wish they had been armed though...preventing a rape is a justified use of deadly force in most states. Would have saved the taxpayers some money...and this conversation would be null.
Hmmm.
As many stupid arguments as the pro gun crowd makes for carrying weapons... here's one of the first semi-intelligent ones: have a gun so you can shoot a rapist's pecker off when you stumble upon them raping someone.
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
I thing dig deep is right, it comes down to a deep, fundamental worldview... Frankly, I think it is much like saying people need to be educated or they will vote for Trump, or that people need economic security or they will commit crime, etc... These are big problems that society is continually failing (for generations) to correct, and it is a much more long term and difficult prospect than the immediate and easy solution of teaching young women how not to be victims. It is similar, I think, to people saying we need to fix socioeconomic issues to stop gun violence in the US... Sure, that's true, but it is a monumental (possibly impossible) task and the faster, more attainable goal is to just tighter the availability of guns.
Everyone needs to realize and understand that there are bad people in the world and always will be. I spent most of my career in the social services and can tell you right now that most people have no concept of how much really bad shit goes on all around them all of the time. People need to know and be aware of their surroundings. Do not put yourself in situations that make it easy for people to take advantage of you because in every crowd there is probably someone that would jump at the opportunity. I do not want to come across as blaming the victim, but there are so many ways this situation could have been avoided. Maybe in a perfect world it would be fine to pass out drunk next to a dumpster, but in the real world that type of behavior will only lead to negative consequences because sickos like this are everywhere! It was not mere coincidence that one just happened to be there...they are all around. The analogy of guns is what I disagree with though. On one side you say that the easy solution is teaching women not to be victims. How about teaching our youth not to be violent? Lack of morals and ethics is what leads to this behavior, not availability or alcohol or guns. We need more people leading by example and watching out for each other. I praise the ones that stopped this asshole in the act instead of walking by like some would do. I actually kinda wish they had been armed though...preventing a rape is a justified use of deadly force in most states. Would have saved the taxpayers some money...and this conversation would be null.
Hmmm.
As many stupid arguments as the pro gun crowd makes for carrying weapons... here's one of the first semi-intelligent ones: have a gun so you can shoot a rapist's pecker off when you stumble upon them raping someone.
Okay. I'm listening. Go on.
Lol, I knew there was common ground buried in there somewhere
rapists are bred, not born. claiming anything to the contrary, in my opinion, is ludicrous. respecting women is the responsibility of your parents, not your genes.
I was talking about a lot more than a "don't rape" talk. Men really need to dig deep on this one.
So this is about men bashing? Fathers, in general, are failing to raise their sons correctly and are solely at the root of this problem where they need to dig deep?
Interesting.
Generalizations are viciously attacked on this forum, but you feel really comfortable making one in this context.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you in many cases (the same ones I suggest we safeguard our women from), but are you saying mothers get a pass on this one? I grew up respecting my mother and as such, I respect women. My dad never taught me to respect my mother- my mother got it through her actions.
The fast swimmer's mother never wrote a letter revealing her idiocy, but I'm assuming she's a full fledged idiot and she's just as culpable as the father for raising their rib eye eating pride and joy- unless... it can be established that the father spoke to the joys of violating women and encouraged and nurtured the dark side of their mutant offspring.
Come on. It's nuanced enough to warrant better than a knee-jerk reaction.
Not that mothers aren't important, but there's something to be said for the male parent telling his son to be respectful, particularly given that he's hearing all sorts of things from his young male friends. As, I'd like to think, an above-average male in the area of respecting women, I know that when I was a teenager, I'd be more likely to roll my eyes at such dialog from my mom than my dad. Remember, young people, regardless of how smart and generally respectful they are are still stupid.
I was in about 8th grade during the Mike Tyson rape aftermath, surrounded by nitwit friends saying "well what did think she was going into his room to do, play checkers?" It was my father that set me straight when I parroted it...would it have resonated as much from my mother? Who knows. But there's value to a male role model in this situation.
Is the mother a part of this punk's problem? Of course. My take has always been that the "parents" have a role here. But as nice as it is to say "boys should respect their mothers" that's not necessarily the case. It's also males (be it fathers, peers, etc.) that traditionally have carried out the culture of victim-blaming and rationalizing how "she actually does want it." So I'd feel comfortable arguing it's males that need to step up their games. Yeah, I've heard women say "Well what was she doing out there by herself at 2:00 AM" too, and that's part of the problem...all people need to help change the culture, but to look to fathers as the people that need to lead is not "male bashing."
Regarding "don't rape." That's shorthand for something very important. Sure, if you literally tell a kid not to rape and don't expand on it, the response of "duh" is probably warranted. But all young boys need to be reminded that certain things are not open doors to do whatever they want. Because it's not necessarily what they are hearing.
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No Thirty. It's not about bashing men. It's about calling men out for not taking any responsibility for what is a male problem. For some reason women bear the burden of rape, of dealing with it, of trying to publicize the problem, and trying to being awareness, while it is men who need to pull their shit together and do something meaningful about the problem. All men. Otherwise widespread rape and sexual assaults on women will continue just the same as it is now. Men - good men - need to take responsibility for this safety crisis, as they are the only ones who can stop it. A male movement is required. Some leaders need to step up.to the cause.
You mean kind of like Muslims and ISIS for the Islamic problem? Place responsibility for the Islamic violence problem on the peaceful practitioners?
You do realize the overwhelming majority of men wouldn't hurt a woman don't you (outside of backwards countries that keep their women in boxes)?
To save any misunderstanding... you, and others, rightfully argued against the notion I compared your 'men problem' to. Yet in this particular matter, you seem to feel a broad generalization is warranted and legitimate. I find that interesting.
Jeff Martin of the Tea Party is a big supporter of the White Ribbon campaign, which is an organization of men that stand up against domestic violence against women. This the kind of thing PJ_Soul is referring to, I believe.
The thing is, the message gets taken more seriously, rightly or wrongly, when it is the group that is the most likely to be the perpetrators that are standing up against the crime.
I agree with PJ_Soul that it should be the father's responsibility, to a larger extent, to teach the sons how to treat women properly. the message might get lost easier or dismissed entirely when it comes from someone who may have a less objective view on the subjet matter.
Are we avoiding the "psychotic" realm of the conversation? A person that does something like this is probably a sociopath. It requires lack of empathy, disregard of the wellbeing of others, etc to be able to follow through with this type of behavior...textbook. I do not think this is a gender problem, but this dude probably does not fit the definition of a well functioning person. Just because a person is born a male does not automatically give them rape tendencies. Again, I feel that people need to be more aware that there are people like this out there. I saw a humorous video the other day of a person getting his leg humped by a dog while he was passed out drunk on a sidewalk... The likelihood of getting humped by either a dog or a psychopath increases dramatically if you pass out drunk in a place you probably should not pass out drunk. Dogs and sickos are everywhere... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying it's acceptable, but it is reality.
Are we avoiding the "psychotic" realm of the conversation? A person that does something like this is probably a sociopath. It requires lack of empathy, disregard of the wellbeing of others, etc to be able to follow through with this type of behavior...textbook. I do not think this is a gender problem, but this dude probably does not fit the definition of a well functioning person. Just because a person is born a male does not automatically give them rape tendencies. Again, I feel that people need to be more aware that there are people like this out there. I saw a humorous video the other day of a person getting his leg humped by a dog while he was passed out drunk on a sidewalk... The likelihood of getting humped by either a dog or a psychopath increases dramatically if you pass out drunk in a place you probably should not pass out drunk. Dogs and sickos are everywhere... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying it's acceptable, but it is reality.
I disagree. you don't have to be psychotic or a sociopath to be a rapist. some people are just brought up to not respect others/boundaries, whether it's other men, other women, children, property, whatever.
Are we avoiding the "psychotic" realm of the conversation? A person that does something like this is probably a sociopath. It requires lack of empathy, disregard of the wellbeing of others, etc to be able to follow through with this type of behavior...textbook. I do not think this is a gender problem, but this dude probably does not fit the definition of a well functioning person. Just because a person is born a male does not automatically give them rape tendencies. Again, I feel that people need to be more aware that there are people like this out there. I saw a humorous video the other day of a person getting his leg humped by a dog while he was passed out drunk on a sidewalk... The likelihood of getting humped by either a dog or a psychopath increases dramatically if you pass out drunk in a place you probably should not pass out drunk. Dogs and sickos are everywhere... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying it's acceptable, but it is reality.
I disagree. you don't have to be psychotic or a sociopath to be a rapist. some people are just brought up to not respect others/boundaries, whether it's other men, other women, children, property, whatever.
I'll agree with you. But my point still stands. We are surrounded by people that are raised the wrong way, sociopaths, dogs, etc. There is no way of extinguishing all of those different kinds of threats...Unless maybe you live in candyland it's probably not a good idea to pass out drunk next to a dumpster. Being oblivious to the environment is never a good idea. If you pass out drunk in the woods, you probably raise your odds of being eaten by a bear. Still a victim, but again...play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Comments
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
Will take a long time though.
we will find a way, we will find our place
I mean I know you're trolling for kicks but this is a serious issue. Could you at least keep that evolution hindering behaviour in the politics threads where it does the least harm.
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
Wouldn't it be nice if one thread could stay on topic?
Yes, I believe as parents we can teach our children empathy. Duh.
What a f**king stupid thing to try and make an argument out of. I'll put it point blank so there's no confusion about what I'm trying to say:
1. This victim is not to blame in any way for what happened.
2. The fast swimmer is a predatory, deranged mutant that can die for all I care.
3. There's going to be (and already are) many more deranged mutant males that are going to rape our daughters.
4. If you don't want your daughter raped by a mutant... warn her and educate her about mutants.
* This may not be enough... mutant males can be challenging.
Duh. Of course the problem is males acting badly. Tell us how to get the message to all our males so the problem is solved. And once that problem is solved... let me know and I'll drop my guard and tell my daughter she has nothing to concern herself with. Until then... I think a 'useful' part of the discussion is to speak of strategies to prevent harm from coming to our loved ones. Don't misconstrue these messages as victim blaming.
Geezuz.
The discussions you desire are happening; however, they aren't happening everywhere and will never happen everywhere given how shitty some people are.
We've had a lot of time to 'evolve', but it has become painfully obvious that the human race will be eradicated before we ever evolve to the species everyone is dreaming about in this thread. Rape aside... look at the potential of men with things like mass murder. Have you ever looked at the gender disparity between men and women for serial murderers? How many ISIS assholes are women? Getting the point? There's a lot of men that dig being really evil and scoff at the notion of being gentle.
There's useless f**ks out there. Be careful around them, Soul. You can't even tell who bares fangs given all the 'friend' rapes we hear of or go unreported. Useless f**ks. They're out there.
take a good look
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Any parent who would have the discussion with, by, and about men has probably already raised a man who won't violate women, but those same good parents might fail to properly prepare their daughters for the literal monsters that are waiting in the dark.
That's why I think cases like this are teaching opportunities, it isn't enough to make intangible references to bad things that might happen, people need to see concrete occurences that involve real people so they can actually touch and feel the reality of failing to take personal safety seriously.
Frankly, I think it is much like saying people need to be educated or they will vote for Trump, or that people need economic security or they will commit crime, etc... These are big problems that society is continually failing (for generations) to correct, and it is a much more long term and difficult prospect than the immediate and easy solution of teaching young women how not to be victims. It is similar, I think, to people saying we need to fix socioeconomic issues to stop gun violence in the US... Sure, that's true, but it is a monumental (possibly impossible) task and the faster, more attainable goal is to just tighter the availability of guns.
again - so we don't have to go through it one more time - i'm not blaming the victim here ... read the studies on sexual assault victims and see how many of them occur while they are impaired/drunk ... again - i agree, that women should be able to get drunk without getting assaulted but it's definitely a factor ...
Interesting.
Generalizations are viciously attacked on this forum, but you feel really comfortable making one in this context.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you in many cases (the same ones I suggest we safeguard our women from), but are you saying mothers get a pass on this one? I grew up respecting my mother and as such, I respect women. My dad never taught me to respect my mother- my mother got it through her actions.
The fast swimmer's mother never wrote a letter revealing her idiocy, but I'm assuming she's a full fledged idiot and she's just as culpable as the father for raising their rib eye eating pride and joy- unless... it can be established that the father spoke to the joys of violating women and encouraged and nurtured the dark side of their mutant offspring.
The analogy of guns is what I disagree with though. On one side you say that the easy solution is teaching women not to be victims. How about teaching our youth not to be violent? Lack of morals and ethics is what leads to this behavior, not availability or alcohol or guns. We need more people leading by example and watching out for each other. I praise the ones that stopped this asshole in the act instead of walking by like some would do. I actually kinda wish they had been armed though...preventing a rape is a justified use of deadly force in most states. Would have saved the taxpayers some money...and this conversation would be null.
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As many stupid arguments as the pro gun crowd makes for carrying weapons... here's one of the first semi-intelligent ones: have a gun so you can shoot a rapist's pecker off when you stumble upon them raping someone.
Okay. I'm listening. Go on.
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Not that mothers aren't important, but there's something to be said for the male parent telling his son to be respectful, particularly given that he's hearing all sorts of things from his young male friends. As, I'd like to think, an above-average male in the area of respecting women, I know that when I was a teenager, I'd be more likely to roll my eyes at such dialog from my mom than my dad. Remember, young people, regardless of how smart and generally respectful they are are still stupid.
I was in about 8th grade during the Mike Tyson rape aftermath, surrounded by nitwit friends saying "well what did think she was going into his room to do, play checkers?" It was my father that set me straight when I parroted it...would it have resonated as much from my mother? Who knows. But there's value to a male role model in this situation.
Is the mother a part of this punk's problem? Of course. My take has always been that the "parents" have a role here. But as nice as it is to say "boys should respect their mothers" that's not necessarily the case. It's also males (be it fathers, peers, etc.) that traditionally have carried out the culture of victim-blaming and rationalizing how "she actually does want it." So I'd feel comfortable arguing it's males that need to step up their games. Yeah, I've heard women say "Well what was she doing out there by herself at 2:00 AM" too, and that's part of the problem...all people need to help change the culture, but to look to fathers as the people that need to lead is not "male bashing."
Regarding "don't rape." That's shorthand for something very important. Sure, if you literally tell a kid not to rape and don't expand on it, the response of "duh" is probably warranted. But all young boys need to be reminded that certain things are not open doors to do whatever they want. Because it's not necessarily what they are hearing.
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You do realize the overwhelming majority of men wouldn't hurt a woman don't you (outside of backwards countries that keep their women in boxes)?
To save any misunderstanding... you, and others, rightfully argued against the notion I compared your 'men problem' to. Yet in this particular matter, you seem to feel a broad generalization is warranted and legitimate. I find that interesting.
The thing is, the message gets taken more seriously, rightly or wrongly, when it is the group that is the most likely to be the perpetrators that are standing up against the crime.
I agree with PJ_Soul that it should be the father's responsibility, to a larger extent, to teach the sons how to treat women properly. the message might get lost easier or dismissed entirely when it comes from someone who may have a less objective view on the subjet matter.
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I saw a humorous video the other day of a person getting his leg humped by a dog while he was passed out drunk on a sidewalk... The likelihood of getting humped by either a dog or a psychopath increases dramatically if you pass out drunk in a place you probably should not pass out drunk. Dogs and sickos are everywhere... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying it's acceptable, but it is reality.
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