Schools must allow transgender bathrooms, Department of Education says

Thirty Bills Unpaid · May 2016

hedonist said:
See, I think the willingness to want to understand and/or relate, based not only on Thirty's and what dreams' comments have conveyed, are important. It's not the mental equivalent of shoving a plate of food away saying "I refuse to even taste this", it's more (to me) about being open to the ingredients, the why's and how's.

Probably another analogy that begs forgiveness

No. This sums it up pretty nicely and needs no forgiveness.

I'm trying to see this how others see it. It's a challenge for me. I'm not going to stand in the way of anything or make it difficult for anyone in any way... but I'm just being honest when I say I'm not quite at the point where I look at this as a completely normal situation and think absolutely nothing of it.

I'd like to add that it's really not a big deal to me. If people would prefer I keep from this thread and not express my curiousness (for lack of better word)... I can leave it so everyone can nod their heads at each other.

hedonist · May 2016

Nope, Thirty. You're not allowed to not express!

(says I)

rollings · May 2016

lukin2006 said:
Yeah ... I don't known either. Young people are already self contious of there bodies, are they not? I was in my teen years. I'd suggest bathrooms with ceiling to wall stalls, that could be costly. Now you're dealing with teenagers, and many can be bullies. Hopefully POD chimes in. POD?

prisoner of drawer is not transgender

rollings · May 2016

what dreams said:
Can I just add that I am always disturbed when the 1% dictate what happens to the 99%. No matter who the 1% is

moooooo

bootlegger10 · May 2016

PJ_Soul said:

show previous quotes
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:
What the hell is the difference if it's biological or psychological if people are born that way?? If you're born that way, and it is something in your brain that determines that you're transgendered, does that kind of mean it's biological anyhow?? Either way, who cares? I am pretty sure that the argument of "well they need psychological help" seems like a pretty insulting and offensive viewpoint IMO. That's what the religious wackos still say about gays, and they ship their kids off to camps the get "reconditioned". This is considered to be child abuse by most people.
You're all over the place with this one.

There's all kinds of therapies, medications, and treatments for all kinds of things.

If a person born with male genitalia develops the mindset where they think they are a woman and it is established that this is psychological... would therapy or drugs having the effect of reaffirming one's gender be a more suitable course of action than surgery? Or is it no big deal and if a male thinks they are a female... replace their organs and simply make them a female?

The only point I am trying to make is posing the idea that perhaps there is a better way than reconstructive surgery. Are we sure we got this figured out? I'm hearing from you and a few others that you're sure we do. I'm not convinced, but I'm certainly not going to be the fly in the ointment.

If someone with a penis thinks they are a female and want their organs removed... hack away. It won't bother me.
I'm not all over the place with it at all. I'm specifically talking about being bored wired a certain way like gays and transgendered people are. I'm not talking about mental illness. Surely we're beyond THAT kind of thinking by now?

As for reassignment surgery..... that is absolutely NOBODY'S business but the person who wants/needs the surgery. If that seems a legitimate way to handle their transgenderism (word??), then how is that worse than medicating the shit out of someone or telling them to seek therapy when they don't want to change they way they think or feel?? It is their bodies that feel wrong, not their minds. When your mind feels wrong, you medicate. When your body feels wrong, you fix your body. Makes perfect sense, and I don't even know why people are considering shit like therapy or drugs as a course of action. I find it incredibly insensitive.

If the body has male sex organs but the mind thinks the body is female, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say the disconnect is with the mind? It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that perhaps there is some chemical inbalance that can be treated with drugs. Right or wrong, I don't think it is insensitive to ask the question.

Degeneratefk · May 2016

bootlegger10 said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:
What the hell is the difference if it's biological or psychological if people are born that way?? If you're born that way, and it is something in your brain that determines that you're transgendered, does that kind of mean it's biological anyhow?? Either way, who cares? I am pretty sure that the argument of "well they need psychological help" seems like a pretty insulting and offensive viewpoint IMO. That's what the religious wackos still say about gays, and they ship their kids off to camps the get "reconditioned". This is considered to be child abuse by most people.
You're all over the place with this one.

There's all kinds of therapies, medications, and treatments for all kinds of things.

If a person born with male genitalia develops the mindset where they think they are a woman and it is established that this is psychological... would therapy or drugs having the effect of reaffirming one's gender be a more suitable course of action than surgery? Or is it no big deal and if a male thinks they are a female... replace their organs and simply make them a female?

The only point I am trying to make is posing the idea that perhaps there is a better way than reconstructive surgery. Are we sure we got this figured out? I'm hearing from you and a few others that you're sure we do. I'm not convinced, but I'm certainly not going to be the fly in the ointment.

If someone with a penis thinks they are a female and want their organs removed... hack away. It won't bother me.
I'm not all over the place with it at all. I'm specifically talking about being bored wired a certain way like gays and transgendered people are. I'm not talking about mental illness. Surely we're beyond THAT kind of thinking by now?

As for reassignment surgery..... that is absolutely NOBODY'S business but the person who wants/needs the surgery. If that seems a legitimate way to handle their transgenderism (word??), then how is that worse than medicating the shit out of someone or telling them to seek therapy when they don't want to change they way they think or feel?? It is their bodies that feel wrong, not their minds. When your mind feels wrong, you medicate. When your body feels wrong, you fix your body. Makes perfect sense, and I don't even know why people are considering shit like therapy or drugs as a course of action. I find it incredibly insensitive.
If the body has male sex organs but the mind thinks the body is female, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say the disconnect is with the mind? It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that perhaps there is some chemical inbalance that can be treated with drugs. Right or wrong, I don't think it is insensitive to ask the question.

So your saying that transgender people are sick? Is that the same for gay people?

Thirty Bills Unpaid · May 2016

Degeneratefk said:

show previous quotes
bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:
What the hell is the difference if it's biological or psychological if people are born that way?? If you're born that way, and it is something in your brain that determines that you're transgendered, does that kind of mean it's biological anyhow?? Either way, who cares? I am pretty sure that the argument of "well they need psychological help" seems like a pretty insulting and offensive viewpoint IMO. That's what the religious wackos still say about gays, and they ship their kids off to camps the get "reconditioned". This is considered to be child abuse by most people.
You're all over the place with this one.

There's all kinds of therapies, medications, and treatments for all kinds of things.

If a person born with male genitalia develops the mindset where they think they are a woman and it is established that this is psychological... would therapy or drugs having the effect of reaffirming one's gender be a more suitable course of action than surgery? Or is it no big deal and if a male thinks they are a female... replace their organs and simply make them a female?

The only point I am trying to make is posing the idea that perhaps there is a better way than reconstructive surgery. Are we sure we got this figured out? I'm hearing from you and a few others that you're sure we do. I'm not convinced, but I'm certainly not going to be the fly in the ointment.

If someone with a penis thinks they are a female and want their organs removed... hack away. It won't bother me.
I'm not all over the place with it at all. I'm specifically talking about being bored wired a certain way like gays and transgendered people are. I'm not talking about mental illness. Surely we're beyond THAT kind of thinking by now?

As for reassignment surgery..... that is absolutely NOBODY'S business but the person who wants/needs the surgery. If that seems a legitimate way to handle their transgenderism (word??), then how is that worse than medicating the shit out of someone or telling them to seek therapy when they don't want to change they way they think or feel?? It is their bodies that feel wrong, not their minds. When your mind feels wrong, you medicate. When your body feels wrong, you fix your body. Makes perfect sense, and I don't even know why people are considering shit like therapy or drugs as a course of action. I find it incredibly insensitive.
If the body has male sex organs but the mind thinks the body is female, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say the disconnect is with the mind? It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that perhaps there is some chemical inbalance that can be treated with drugs. Right or wrong, I don't think it is insensitive to ask the question.
So your saying that transgender people are sick? Is that the same for gay people?

Again... exactly why are people associating transgender people with gay people?

Degeneratefk · May 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes
Degeneratefk said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:
What the hell is the difference if it's biological or psychological if people are born that way?? If you're born that way, and it is something in your brain that determines that you're transgendered, does that kind of mean it's biological anyhow?? Either way, who cares? I am pretty sure that the argument of "well they need psychological help" seems like a pretty insulting and offensive viewpoint IMO. That's what the religious wackos still say about gays, and they ship their kids off to camps the get "reconditioned". This is considered to be child abuse by most people.
You're all over the place with this one.

There's all kinds of therapies, medications, and treatments for all kinds of things.

If a person born with male genitalia develops the mindset where they think they are a woman and it is established that this is psychological... would therapy or drugs having the effect of reaffirming one's gender be a more suitable course of action than surgery? Or is it no big deal and if a male thinks they are a female... replace their organs and simply make them a female?

The only point I am trying to make is posing the idea that perhaps there is a better way than reconstructive surgery. Are we sure we got this figured out? I'm hearing from you and a few others that you're sure we do. I'm not convinced, but I'm certainly not going to be the fly in the ointment.

If someone with a penis thinks they are a female and want their organs removed... hack away. It won't bother me.
I'm not all over the place with it at all. I'm specifically talking about being bored wired a certain way like gays and transgendered people are. I'm not talking about mental illness. Surely we're beyond THAT kind of thinking by now?

As for reassignment surgery..... that is absolutely NOBODY'S business but the person who wants/needs the surgery. If that seems a legitimate way to handle their transgenderism (word??), then how is that worse than medicating the shit out of someone or telling them to seek therapy when they don't want to change they way they think or feel?? It is their bodies that feel wrong, not their minds. When your mind feels wrong, you medicate. When your body feels wrong, you fix your body. Makes perfect sense, and I don't even know why people are considering shit like therapy or drugs as a course of action. I find it incredibly insensitive.
If the body has male sex organs but the mind thinks the body is female, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say the disconnect is with the mind? It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that perhaps there is some chemical inbalance that can be treated with drugs. Right or wrong, I don't think it is insensitive to ask the question.
So your saying that transgender people are sick? Is that the same for gay people?
Again... exactly why are people associating transgender people with gay people?

I'm not associating transgender people with gay people. I'm wondering since people think being a transgender is mental illness if they think the same about gay oeople.

tempo_n_groove · May 2016

Degeneratefk said:

show previous quotes
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Degeneratefk said:

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:
What the hell is the difference if it's biological or psychological if people are born that way?? If you're born that way, and it is something in your brain that determines that you're transgendered, does that kind of mean it's biological anyhow?? Either way, who cares? I am pretty sure that the argument of "well they need psychological help" seems like a pretty insulting and offensive viewpoint IMO. That's what the religious wackos still say about gays, and they ship their kids off to camps the get "reconditioned". This is considered to be child abuse by most people.
You're all over the place with this one.

There's all kinds of therapies, medications, and treatments for all kinds of things.

If a person born with male genitalia develops the mindset where they think they are a woman and it is established that this is psychological... would therapy or drugs having the effect of reaffirming one's gender be a more suitable course of action than surgery? Or is it no big deal and if a male thinks they are a female... replace their organs and simply make them a female?

The only point I am trying to make is posing the idea that perhaps there is a better way than reconstructive surgery. Are we sure we got this figured out? I'm hearing from you and a few others that you're sure we do. I'm not convinced, but I'm certainly not going to be the fly in the ointment.

If someone with a penis thinks they are a female and want their organs removed... hack away. It won't bother me.
I'm not all over the place with it at all. I'm specifically talking about being bored wired a certain way like gays and transgendered people are. I'm not talking about mental illness. Surely we're beyond THAT kind of thinking by now?

As for reassignment surgery..... that is absolutely NOBODY'S business but the person who wants/needs the surgery. If that seems a legitimate way to handle their transgenderism (word??), then how is that worse than medicating the shit out of someone or telling them to seek therapy when they don't want to change they way they think or feel?? It is their bodies that feel wrong, not their minds. When your mind feels wrong, you medicate. When your body feels wrong, you fix your body. Makes perfect sense, and I don't even know why people are considering shit like therapy or drugs as a course of action. I find it incredibly insensitive.
If the body has male sex organs but the mind thinks the body is female, wouldn't it be more reasonable to say the disconnect is with the mind? It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that perhaps there is some chemical inbalance that can be treated with drugs. Right or wrong, I don't think it is insensitive to ask the question.
So your saying that transgender people are sick? Is that the same for gay people?
Again... exactly why are people associating transgender people with gay people?
I'm not associating transgender people with gay people. I'm wondering since people think being a transgender is mental illness if they think the same about gay oeople.

A pill is not the answer for everything.

'The wires are crossed in the brain for sure' but that's what everyone thought about gay people at first too. Hell, didn't they do lobotomy's on people that were considered "off"?

This is still all something I am trying to understand myself.

callen · May 2016

Jason P said:

show previous quotes
josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

josevolution said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Overblown issue.

We're talking about f**king bathrooms. If you got a noodle... go hang your noodle out where all the other noodles hang out. Look straight ahead while you do it and bingo... you've successfully pee'd.

School bathrooms are not teeming with thugs looking to club transgender people. They're typically very quiet places with most of the kids sitting in class. A transgender kid simply needs to ask if they can go to the washroom... walk to the washroom through the empty halls... walk into the empty washroom (there might be someone in there so say "Hi" if so)... and relieve themselves.

* Both the same issue... but essentially the same strategy for adults in the public setting. I'm pretty sure there are no scarlet letters indicating who's transitioning so even the worst asshole out there doesn't give a shit. If someone has already transitioned... go to new designation.
it's just not that cut and dried man, the human factor is way to bazar and the fact that it's been boy's in the boy's room and girls in the girls room since forever ! and accepted as so then why change it ? it's worked great all these years.

Godfather.

Yes, it is cut and dry. The only "human" factor that comes into play are the people that discriminate against the transgender community.
geeeeeze would you get off that discriminate thing ! whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa !!!!!! it's not discrimination at all ! it's people like you forcing your bullshit on people who don't want it !
get over yourself already !

Godfather.

What do you mean people like you ? Dude this law is discriminatory against a sect of humans ...
There are estimates that .3% of the US population is transgender. That is less than 1 million people in the country. I agree this is a non subject, however when the POTUS threatens to cut off funds for education it becomes everyones issue. Why should 99.7% of the people have to conform to the .3%?
You are clueless !!
no man, he's spot on!

Godfather.

You fall in the same boat GF you're clueless too !!
Threatening to cut federal funds for something that wasn't on anybody's radar 3 months ago is clueless.

Right.

Now who started this mess?

At whom should you be putting the blame?

No no no not the Feds.
No Not the evil Obama.

It's the religious that are fighting for their perception of reality which is being taken away from them. Another win for gods and goblins.

callen · May 2016

Dirtie_Frank said:

show previous quotes
josevolution said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Overblown issue.

We're talking about f**king bathrooms. If you got a noodle... go hang your noodle out where all the other noodles hang out. Look straight ahead while you do it and bingo... you've successfully pee'd.

School bathrooms are not teeming with thugs looking to club transgender people. They're typically very quiet places with most of the kids sitting in class. A transgender kid simply needs to ask if they can go to the washroom... walk to the washroom through the empty halls... walk into the empty washroom (there might be someone in there so say "Hi" if so)... and relieve themselves.

* Both the same issue... but essentially the same strategy for adults in the public setting. I'm pretty sure there are no scarlet letters indicating who's transitioning so even the worst asshole out there doesn't give a shit. If someone has already transitioned... go to new designation.
it's just not that cut and dried man, the human factor is way to bazar and the fact that it's been boy's in the boy's room and girls in the girls room since forever ! and accepted as so then why change it ? it's worked great all these years.

Godfather.

Yes, it is cut and dry. The only "human" factor that comes into play are the people that discriminate against the transgender community.
geeeeeze would you get off that discriminate thing ! whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa !!!!!! it's not discrimination at all ! it's people like you forcing your bullshit on people who don't want it !
get over yourself already !

Godfather.

What do you mean people like you ? Dude this law is discriminatory against a sect of humans ...
There are estimates that .3% of the US population is transgender. That is less than 1 million people in the country. I agree this is a non subject, however when the POTUS threatens to cut off funds for education it becomes everyones issue. Why should 99.7% of the people have to conform to the .3%?
You are clueless !!
So fill me in then. What am I missing? How many children are trans? Why should the POTUS threaten to withhold federal funding for eduction?

Basic rights for EVERY American. That's why.

Now understand you've had the privilege to be born a white heterosexual male so haven't needed any laws to protect you, but that's not the case for many.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · May 2016

^^^
Agree.
(Don't waste anymore time debating the religious nuts)
Stupid people can't be corrected - like cows if you will.

callen · May 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I have to admit that I don't understand the transgender phenomenon very well. It sure seems to be trending lately and humans love trending.

Are we sure that 'transitioning' is a natural aspect of the human psyche and that instead of treating the confused human... we are entertaining something we shouldn't?

Does asking this question make me intolerant?

Intolerant? Not sure. Yet. We'll see.

Way I think of it is there are Billions of humans. Billions. Soooo inevitably brains and bodies will be switched. Sexual orientation will be switched or on sliding scale.

Just odds.

So now do we treat all as equals or do we squirm and get scared and then pass fked up laws due to our insecurities?

Godfather. · May 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
^^^
Agree.
(Don't waste anymore time debating the religious nuts)
Stupid people can't be corrected - like cows if you will.

religious nuts ??? AHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHA and we're talking about men who like to dress like women and in some cases have their junk surgically removed and get breast implants ? forgive for finding the ignorance of that statement hilarious.....but DAAAAAMMMMMN ! really ? HAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.
and then they want to use the ladies room ??????? ohhhhhh dear that was great !!!! hahhahahhahhahahahah !!!!!!! and then want everybody else to look on as if nothing was wrong ???? (album quote from Frank Zappa "act like nothing's wrong") wow !!!!! oh man I can't stop laughing !

Godfather.

Bentleyspop · May 2016

Godfather. said:

show previous quotes
PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
^^^
Agree.
(Don't waste anymore time debating the religious nuts)
Stupid people can't be corrected - like cows if you will.
religious nuts ??? AHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHA and we're talking about men who like to dress like women and in some cases have their junk surgically removed and get breast implants ? forgive for finding the ignorance of that statement hilarious.....but DAAAAAMMMMMN ! really ? HAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.
and then they want to use the ladies room ??????? ohhhhhh dear that was great !!!! hahhahahhahhahahahah !!!!!!! and then want everybody else to look on as if nothing was wrong ???? (album quote from Frank Zappa "act like nothing's wrong") wow !!!!! oh man I can't stop laughing !

Godfather.

Congratulations GF you've finally hit a new low even for you.

Godfather. · May 2016

Bentleyspop said:

show previous quotes
Godfather. said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
^^^
Agree.
(Don't waste anymore time debating the religious nuts)
Stupid people can't be corrected - like cows if you will.
religious nuts ??? AHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHA and we're talking about men who like to dress like women and in some cases have their junk surgically removed and get breast implants ? forgive for finding the ignorance of that statement hilarious.....but DAAAAAMMMMMN ! really ? HAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.
and then they want to use the ladies room ??????? ohhhhhh dear that was great !!!! hahhahahhahhahahahah !!!!!!! and then want everybody else to look on as if nothing was wrong ???? (album quote from Frank Zappa "act like nothing's wrong") wow !!!!! oh man I can't stop laughing !

Godfather.

Congratulations GF you've finally hit a new low even for you.

nahhhhhh, but how so ? I really think that was funny calling people religious nuts while talking about people that have issues of their own.....crap man you have to see the humor in that !

Godfather.

Dirtie_Frank · May 2016

So now I am a white privileged religious nut? So since you do not agree you bash people with words. I have defended Gay rights, I have voted for gay marriage. From what I read and posted there are a lot of LGB that do not want the T in their group anymore. Some believe their fight is different. This issue was not even on my radar until the POTUS threatened to withhold federal funding from schools and receiving a letter form my kids schools on transgender bathrooms.

mace1229 · May 2016

I didn't agree with the race analogy either.

Dirtie_Frank · May 2016

Double post.

Bentleyspop · May 2016

Godfather. said:

show previous quotes
Bentleyspop said:

Godfather. said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
^^^
Agree.
(Don't waste anymore time debating the religious nuts)
Stupid people can't be corrected - like cows if you will.
religious nuts ??? AHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHA and we're talking about men who like to dress like women and in some cases have their junk surgically removed and get breast implants ? forgive for finding the ignorance of that statement hilarious.....but DAAAAAMMMMMN ! really ? HAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.
and then they want to use the ladies room ??????? ohhhhhh dear that was great !!!! hahhahahhahhahahahah !!!!!!! and then want everybody else to look on as if nothing was wrong ???? (album quote from Frank Zappa "act like nothing's wrong") wow !!!!! oh man I can't stop laughing !

Godfather.

Congratulations GF you've finally hit a new low even for you.
nahhhhhh, but how so ? I really think that was funny calling people religious nuts while talking about people that have issues of their own.....crap man you have to see the humor in that !

Godfather.

guess you missed this part....

"we're talking about men who like to dress like women and in some cases have their junk surgically removed and get breast implants ? forgive for finding the ignorance of that statement hilarious.....but DAAAAAMMMMMN ! really ? HAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA.
and then they want to use the ladies room ??????? "

Schools must allow transgender bathrooms, Department of Education says

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