Bernie Sanders for President

lolobugg · March 2016

from Wiki description

" most carpetbaggers probably combine the desire for personal gain with a commitment to taking part in an effort "to substitute the civilization of freedom for that of slavery".

so about that personal gain part.......
Bernie never gave speeches to Wall Street for $$$$$$$$$$$

dignin · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.

To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?

mrussel1 · March 2016

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?

He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.

He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.

mrussel1 · March 2016

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.

I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.

You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.

mrussel1 · March 2016

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.

Hillary is against CU as well. Here is a quote from her in CNN "That starts with reversing Citizens United. And that's where my comprehensive plan to restore common sense to campaign finance begins. As president, I'll appoint Supreme Court justices who recognize that Citizens United is bad for America. And if necessary, I'll fight for a constitutional amendment that overturns it." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/opinions/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-more-democracy/

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.
Hillary is against CU as well. Here is a quote from her in CNN "That starts with reversing Citizens United. And that's where my comprehensive plan to restore common sense to campaign finance begins. As president, I'll appoint Supreme Court justices who recognize that Citizens United is bad for America. And if necessary, I'll fight for a constitutional amendment that overturns it." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/opinions/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-more-democracy/

All that, and I still might not vote for her.

lolobugg · March 2016

I think Hillary should help Bernie pay some of that campaign debt since she has appropriated many of his positions lately.

mrussel1 · March 2016

^Further, before people scream "LIAR".. don't forget that she voted for McCain-Feingold which is the act that led to CU.

mrussel1 · March 2016

lolobugg said:
I think Hillary should help Bernie pay some of that campaign debt since she has appropriated many of his positions lately.

You mean like holding gun manufacturers liable? I hope you don't mean CU. You should know that Hillary is actually the core reason for the CU case. They were trying to air a trash documentary within 30 days of a primary, which was illegal under the BCRA. A right wing political operative group is the origin of the CU v. FEC and it centered around Hillary.

lolobugg · March 2016

Nope.
Like all of the other things she has added to her campaign speech in the last months after Bernie has been beating her in the primaries and in the debates.
you know like... affordable education, reformed justice system and (cough) holding wall street responsible.

Free · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.
Hillary is against CU as well. Here is a quote from her in CNN "That starts with reversing Citizens United. And that's where my comprehensive plan to restore common sense to campaign finance begins. As president, I'll appoint Supreme Court justices who recognize that Citizens United is bad for America. And if necessary, I'll fight for a constitutional amendment that overturns it." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/opinions/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-more-democracy/

Downright laughable.

And if you think any of us will sway because of Devine? Pfft. I will contribute more based on that.

We will not stop supporting Bernie. You can attack us, his campaign, anyone you want, scream about math, call us whatever you want.

Still supporting Bernie.

For supposed Hillary fan, you sure are afraid of voters.

mrussel1 · March 2016

lolobugg said:
Nope.
Like all of the other things she has added to her campaign speech in the last months after Bernie has been beating her in the primaries and in the debates.
you know like... affordable education, reformed justice system and (cough) holding wall street responsible.

Let's talk issues:
Criminal Justice reform: I hope you understand that Bernie is not a leading voice on criminal justice reform. It's actually the dreaded Koch Brothers. They've been on this cause for several years. Bernie is quite late to this party. And Bernie is the one who voted for the crime bill in 1995. Now in fairness Hillary supported it, but they are BOTH part of that problem.

Holding Wall Street Accountable: Can you explain what that means? I guarantee you 99% of Bernie supporters (or most anyone) cannot form a coherent sentence about Glass-Steagall. You already have Sarb-Ox, you have Basil III, CFPB, Card Act, etc. Bernie supports reinstating the Act. Hillary does not. Let me say this clearly... The housing bust was NOT caused by the lack of Glass-Steagall! Although liberal orthodoxy says so, there's simply no evidence that was the case. Now the rest of his prescriptions are hit and miss. Some are benign, others are dumb. Cap credit cards at 15%?? Okay. Good idea. The banks won't loan to anyone with less than 10 years of credit history. Good luck renting that car.

Education: Now this is an interesting one that I've tried to discuss several times. You say he wants to make education more affordable. AGREED! I'll have 3 kids in college over the next 10 years. However, his solution is to tax to make it free. WTF? Why aren't we addressing the causes of the ridiculous tuition rates? Why does Harvard charge 64k when it has a 37 billion dollar endowment? UVA has 7 billion and its a public school! Ohio State has 3 billion! Why should my tax rate jump up 15 points when the issues is the cost of tuition? Makes no friggin' sense. Cap the tuition on public school if you want. Make sure one of your answers isn't "Higher Taxes".

Someone please engage me on the issues.

mrussel1 · March 2016

Free said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.
Hillary is against CU as well. Here is a quote from her in CNN "That starts with reversing Citizens United. And that's where my comprehensive plan to restore common sense to campaign finance begins. As president, I'll appoint Supreme Court justices who recognize that Citizens United is bad for America. And if necessary, I'll fight for a constitutional amendment that overturns it." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/opinions/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-more-democracy/

Downright laughable.

And if you think any of us will sway because of Devine? Pfft. I will contribute more based on that.

We will not stop supporting Bernie. You can attack us, his campaign, anyone you want, scream about math, call us whatever you want.

Still supporting Bernie.

For supposed Hillary fan, you sure are afraid of voters.

I could give a shit about how much Ted Devine makes. I was simply pointing out the continued Hillary Derangement Syndrome and outright hypocrisy you practice.

ckravitz · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

Education: Now this is an interesting one that I've tried to discuss several times. You say he wants to make education more affordable. AGREED! I'll have 3 kids in college over the next 10 years. However, his solution is to tax to make it free. WTF? Why aren't we addressing the causes of the ridiculous tuition rates? Why does Harvard charge 64k when it has a 37 billion dollar endowment? UVA has 7 billion and its a public school! Ohio State has 3 billion! Why should my tax rate jump up 15 points when the issues is the cost of tuition? Makes no friggin' sense. Cap the tuition on public school if you want. Make sure one of your answers isn't "Higher Taxes".

You keep asking this question and yet never a response. Let me try... he knows that his popularity is huge on campuses, including educators and administrators, and that increasing our taxes to pay for the outrageous costs doesn't kill the golden goose like attempting to actually reduce those costs would. What college administrator or professor wants to hear about caps or reduced funding? I'm pretty sure that answer is none.

Free · March 2016

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.
Hillary is against CU as well. Here is a quote from her in CNN "That starts with reversing Citizens United. And that's where my comprehensive plan to restore common sense to campaign finance begins. As president, I'll appoint Supreme Court justices who recognize that Citizens United is bad for America. And if necessary, I'll fight for a constitutional amendment that overturns it." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/opinions/hillary-clinton-citizens-united-more-democracy/

Downright laughable.

And if you think any of us will sway because of Devine? Pfft. I will contribute more based on that.

We will not stop supporting Bernie. You can attack us, his campaign, anyone you want, scream about math, call us whatever you want.

Still supporting Bernie.

For supposed Hillary fan, you sure are afraid of voters.
I could give a shit about how much Ted Devine makes. I was simply pointing out the continued Hillary Derangement Syndrome and outright hypocrisy you practice.

I have nothing to discuss with a closet Hillary supporter who is immune to reality of the media, real voter suppression, and actual facts about Hillary.

PJ_Soul · March 2016

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.

I think the premise you're discussion is somewhat ridiculous. This is not the first time I have seen people try to discredit good people because they aren't Jesus fucking Christ. It's just criticizing him for running for President in the most principled way he possibly can under the existing system. Finding fault in that just seems so rigid and illogical to me. I personally don't admire people who defy simple reality and logic while they're trying to accomplish a goal, so "accusing" Bernie of NOT doing that actually ends up being a compliment, lol.

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2016

PJ_Soul said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:
i meant reverse in terms of coming from Arkansas to NY.
she def is a carpetbagger in every sense of the word.
Isn't Bernie the same? He joined the Democratic party to run for President...opportunism and exploitation.
To be fair, it is a two party system. For anyone to have a realistic chance to become president, they have to run as one or the other. Would you rather he ran as an independent?
He could have. That would have been more principled. He probably would not have had an $800k a month campaign manager in that position though. I'm sure Nader didn't pay that much for his manager. Seems hypocritical that he's using all these small donations to pay that much.
He certainly could have, and helped put a republican in the White House. Just like Nader.

In order to be viable, he has to play the game to an extent. Otherwise he's just an old guy yelling in the background.
I think he's principled when it's convenient for him. He's a politician like all the others. He scapegoats. He hires corporate shills to run his campaigns. He complains about unfair treatment and bias. He's no different. And don't anyone get high and mighty about contributions. If Hillary released super PAC negative ads on him, he would have to go to the well also. And if he wins the nomination, I can guarantee he will have super PACs supporting him.
You are probably right. It's really the only way to get elected anymore. Despite all that, he still says he wants to get the money out of politics. Maybe he feels the end justifies the means? I don't know.
I think the premise you're discussion is somewhat ridiculous. This is not the first time I have seen people try to discredit good people because they aren't Jesus fucking Christ. It's just criticizing him for running for President in the most principled way he possibly can under the existing system. Finding fault in that just seems so rigid and illogical to me. I personally don't admire people who defy simple reality and logic while they're trying to accomplish a goal, so "accusing" Bernie of NOT doing that actually ends up being a compliment, lol.

Is this directed at me? I wasn't criticising him or trying to discredit him. I think he is the most principled candidate. I don't blame him for having to run a campaign in a less than ideal way. That is way the game is rigged. I was agreeing with the last part about the super pac.

Bernie Sanders for President

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