Canadian Politics Redux
Comments
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Hey man.
I responded with respect. I suggested the book in as sincere form as I might have been able to given out recent exchanges.
Their current reality has been shaped by their past. If they are shrugging their shoulders and lamenting their condition to you without any understanding of their past and how it contributed to their current state, I would suggest you aren't talking to the brightest people their country has to offer.
As a side note... I'm envious as hell of you right now."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!TalonTedd said:
That's because the Jackels in the American CIA and Wall street devote their every breath to destroying anything that remotely resembles a fair and equitable monetary and political system. Capitalism is the greatest evil ever!1ThoughtKnown said:Interesting thing we have learned in Argentina and Chile, after a long periods with socialist/leftist governments their economies are in ruins.
Argentina is in the middle of elections next month and will be turfing the existing president. Locals I have talked to are hoping things will become better.
Chile has always been like the "US" of South America. Their flag looks like the flag of Texas. They went left a number of years ago. For forty days the section of the government.responsible for registries has been on an illegal strike. Basically the economy has ground to a halt as the government workers (who make twice as much as the average Chilean) want more money.
You cannot buy a new car, for instance, because if you did it is impossible to register it and get a licence plate. Want to get married? Same thing.
It has been a great learning experience, especially here in Argentina. The black eye they have on the international stage for defaulting on their debt is very hard on them. I sensed the embarrassment when I broached the subject delicately. They are a proud people. They are survivors, self-admittedly, and are hoping for a return to an economy (a government) where business can thrive and opportunities exist.
Keep in mind, these are comments from people I have talked to. I have not had time to research all the information as I am on a vacation. Cheers!
PS. Have a great time on your vacation. I/m so jealous.
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
The world we all operate in, is what it is, for now. Things change. I for one would have less problem with the level of taxation we burden under if wages were more equitable to the workforce and profits were less sheltered from re-disbursement back into general population through increased wages and taxes.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!TalonTedd said:
That's because the Jackels in the American CIA and Wall street devote their every breath to destroying anything that remotely resembles a fair and equitable monetary and political system. Capitalism is the greatest evil ever!1ThoughtKnown said:Interesting thing we have learned in Argentina and Chile, after a long periods with socialist/leftist governments their economies are in ruins.
Argentina is in the middle of elections next month and will be turfing the existing president. Locals I have talked to are hoping things will become better.
Chile has always been like the "US" of South America. Their flag looks like the flag of Texas. They went left a number of years ago. For forty days the section of the government.responsible for registries has been on an illegal strike. Basically the economy has ground to a halt as the government workers (who make twice as much as the average Chilean) want more money.
You cannot buy a new car, for instance, because if you did it is impossible to register it and get a licence plate. Want to get married? Same thing.
It has been a great learning experience, especially here in Argentina. The black eye they have on the international stage for defaulting on their debt is very hard on them. I sensed the embarrassment when I broached the subject delicately. They are a proud people. They are survivors, self-admittedly, and are hoping for a return to an economy (a government) where business can thrive and opportunities exist.
Keep in mind, these are comments from people I have talked to. I have not had time to research all the information as I am on a vacation. Cheers!
PS. Have a great time on your vacation. I/m so jealous.
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
As to charity. The mere fact that charity even exists fortifies my belief that the system is unfair, privileged, and unsustainable. That the inequity has been growing and will continue to grow. There should be no poverty in Canada.
PeaceI remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.0 -
My good man, that was an intelligent and thoughtful response to my post. You gave me a lot to think about there.TalonTedd said:
The world we all operate in, is what it is, for now. Things change. I for one would have less problem with the level of taxation we burden under if wages were more equitable to the workforce and profits were less sheltered from re-disbursement back into general population through increased wages and taxes.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!TalonTedd said:
That's because the Jackels in the American CIA and Wall street devote their every breath to destroying anything that remotely resembles a fair and equitable monetary and political system. Capitalism is the greatest evil ever!1ThoughtKnown said:Interesting thing we have learned in Argentina and Chile, after a long periods with socialist/leftist governments their economies are in ruins.
Argentina is in the middle of elections next month and will be turfing the existing president. Locals I have talked to are hoping things will become better.
Chile has always been like the "US" of South America. Their flag looks like the flag of Texas. They went left a number of years ago. For forty days the section of the government.responsible for registries has been on an illegal strike. Basically the economy has ground to a halt as the government workers (who make twice as much as the average Chilean) want more money.
You cannot buy a new car, for instance, because if you did it is impossible to register it and get a licence plate. Want to get married? Same thing.
It has been a great learning experience, especially here in Argentina. The black eye they have on the international stage for defaulting on their debt is very hard on them. I sensed the embarrassment when I broached the subject delicately. They are a proud people. They are survivors, self-admittedly, and are hoping for a return to an economy (a government) where business can thrive and opportunities exist.
Keep in mind, these are comments from people I have talked to. I have not had time to research all the information as I am on a vacation. Cheers!
PS. Have a great time on your vacation. I/m so jealous.
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
As to charity. The mere fact that charity even exists fortifies my belief that the system is unfair, privileged, and unsustainable. That the inequity has been growing and will continue to grow. There should be no poverty in Canada.
Peace
I struggle with the theory of trickle down economics (it is failing and posted about that months ago on the old CDN Politics forum).
The only thing about the re-disbursement is that those who risk everything to create a business should enjoy the success it may bring, because who is there to help them when it fails? You don't get EI when you close up shop and declare bankruptcy, etc.
Target, for example, failed miserably with its expansion into Canada and lost billions. The corporatïon suffered, jobs were created and lost.
I often think about the sawmill south of Westbank just on top of the hill to Peachland in BC.
The owner was so good to his workers. Huge forest fires threatened the mill and the workers gave their free time to help protect it.
They also worked a day for nothing as a birthday gift for the owner.
This mill is non-Union. (This are all stories my grandfather tells and he lives near there).
There should be no poverty anywhere, you are right. But I stick to my belief that poverty would be virtually eliminated in Canada if money was diverted from some bloated Social programs and into strengthening our mental health system. I would applaud any government who made it a point to do this. Many people with mental health issues are the ones who fall through the cracks and self medicate on alcohol or drugs. Some of these people, sadly, end up on the street.
Cheers man!
Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on0 -
1TK
I think a lot of mental health issues and others like crime and violence grow strong in poverty. I've seen the effects myself,(ran with the wrong crew when i was younger). Poverty is a root cause on too many levels. ie overworked parents have less patients, fun and time for each other and the children; they fly off the handle easy, transmit feelings of inadequacy to loved ones and worse. They deserve better. self esteem, feeling accomplished, time for R/R etc etc etc.
Yeah....lets rename trickle down to....step on their throats and watch one half of the poor kill the other half economics. What a sick idea; the wealthy must have been laughin their asses off when that lie was coined.
And those that develop sustainable and useful business should have higher standing in the community. Greater access in the access based society we should be striving for. Access for all, and extra for achievement.
NLRBE for all and watch happiness grow, not the stress.
In joyous part.I remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.0 -
.Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on0
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not sure if it's the worst thing he's done ... but ...
all these trade deals do is provide more power and access for large corporations
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/balsillie-fears-tpp-could-cost-canada-billions-become-203327302.html
OTTAWA - Jim Balsillie warns that provisions tucked into the Trans-Pacific Partnership could cost Canada hundreds of billions of dollars — and eventually make signing it the worst public policy decision in the country's history.
After poring over the treaty's final text, the businessman who helped build Research In Motion into a $20-billion global player said the deal contains "troubling" rules on intellectual property that threaten to make Canada a "permanent underclass" in the economy of selling ideas.
Last month, in the middle of the election campaign, the Conservative government put Canada's signature on the controversial 12-country pact. The Pacific Rim agreement, which includes the massive American and Japanese economies, has been described as the world's largest-ever trade zone.
But Balsillie said parts of the deal will harm Canadian innovators by forcing them to play by rules set by the treaty's most-dominant partner: the United States.
The fallout could prove costly for Canada because technologies created by these entrepreneurs have the potential to create huge amounts of wealth for the economy, he says.
"I'm not a partisan actor, but I actually think this is the worst thing that the Harper government has done for Canada," the former co-chief executive of RIM said in an interview after studying large sections of the 6,000-page document, released to the public last week.
"I think in 10 years from now, we'll call that the signature worst thing in policy that Canada's ever done...
"It's a treaty that structures everything forever — and we can't get out of it."
Balsillie's concerns about the deal include how it would impose intellectual property standards set by the U.S., the biggest partner in the treaty.
He fears it would give American firms an edge and cost Canadian companies more money because they would have to pay for someone else's ideas instead their own.
On top of that, Balsillie believes the structure could prevent Canadian firms from growing as it would also limit how much money they can make from their own products and services.
Balsillie, who spent much of his time building RIM by negotiating agreements around the world, called the comprehensive final text a "brilliant piece of literature."
"It's such brilliantly systemic encirclement. I'm just in awe at its powerful purity by the Americans...
"We've been outfoxed."
And unlike legislation passed in Parliament, he noted treaties like this one set rules that must be followed forever. This deal, he added, also features "iron-clad" dispute mechanisms.
"I'm worried and I don't know how we can get out of this," said Balsillie, who's also helping guide the creation of a lobby group that would press for the needs of Canada's innovation sector.
"I think our trade negotiators have profoundly failed Canadians and our future innovators. I really lament it."
He said the government should have dispatched a more-sophisticated negotiating team.
Harper had hailed the agreement as a means of ensuring Canadian access to a market of nearly 800 million people and before it was signed, warned Canada couldn't afford not to take part.
The deal must be ratified by all 12 countries, and then it would come into force six months later. It would require a parliamentary vote in Canada.
Alternatively, the treaty can also take effect if it's ratified by half the countries representing 85 per cent of the zone's economy. A country can withdraw any time, on six months' notice.
The Liberal government has yet to say how it will proceed.
International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland, named to cabinet a day before the finalized treaty was made public, reiterated that the Liberals believe in trade, but she was careful to note the deal was negotiated by the Conservative government.
After the text was released, Freeland told reporters she wanted Canadians to send her comments about it.
"I'm going to take that seriously — we're going to review it," she said Thursday.
The government, she added, is committed to a full parliamentary debate on the deal and a vote in the House of Commons, though she had yet to set a deadline.
She declined to answer questions whether the Liberals would be prepared to walk away from the deal.
Balsillie warned that the Liberals' plan to run budgetary deficits of up to $10 billion in each of the next three years could pale in comparison to what could be lost in the country's ideas economy because of the TPP.
"These provisions are more important by far — times 10 — than anything else in the agreement," he said.
"But we're having no discussion on it."
Follow @AndyBlatchford on Twitter0 -
"It's such brilliantly systemic encirclement. I'm just in awe at its powerful purity by the Americans...
"We've been outfoxed."
And unlike legislation passed in Parliament, he noted treaties like this one set rules that must be followed forever. This deal, he added, also features "iron-clad" dispute mechanisms.
"I'm worried and I don't know how we can get out of this," said Balsillie, who's also helping guide the creation of a lobby group that would press for the needs of Canada's innovation sector.
"I think our trade negotiators have profoundly failed Canadians and our future innovators. I really lament it."
Outfoxed. That might be one way to frame it.
Cheated. Might be another. Harper... the US lap dog was always eager to lick Uncle Sam's boots."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Sorry guys, we tried to stop it but Obama wasn't on our side and the cons were with him.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Thankfully we're still a long way from signing on to the TPP......and we threw out Harper, who would have backed this deal 100%.
This is where a Liberal minority propped up by the NDP would have really come in handy.0 -
Yeah, not too late yet.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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I def wouldn't say no one is against capitalism....personally, I think we all should be against it in the form it takes now....Does that mean PJ is wrong for being a part of it? No....because we all are. The part people should 'stop', IMO, is the presumption that anyone thinks PJ is not a business - we all know that, so it shouldn't be constantly thrown in leftist's faces as if we don't understand how it works (yes, there are some people who think the PJ posturing of the early 90's translates into current practice, but they're usually people who have barely followed the band over the last 20 years).....Also, I wish people (1TK in this case) would stop with the libertarian thought line of acceptance that trickle down economics just doesn't work....but for some reason it would work in regards to charity....HughFreakingDillon said:
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
Also....since we're talking ideology, and 1TK and Thirty are talking Argentina and Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine...I'll bring up another Klein work that I've mentioned here a few times (I've never had anyone mention that they've actually watched it yet)....she did an awesome doc in 04 about Argentina's collectivist movement, called La Toma (or The Take)....it's an example of how the movement actually saved people after the chaos of an economy destroyed not by socialist/leftists as 1TK said, but by neoliberalism...
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I don't think that trickle down economics works either. I think it's complete bullshit. It COULD work, but it doesn't.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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I'd like to watch that.Drowned Out said:
I def wouldn't say no one is against capitalism....personally, I think we all should be against it in the form it takes now....Does that mean PJ is wrong for being a part of it? No....because we all are. The part people should 'stop', IMO, is the presumption that anyone thinks PJ is not a business - we all know that, so it shouldn't be constantly thrown in leftist's faces as if we don't understand how it works (yes, there are some people who think the PJ posturing of the early 90's translates into current practice, but they're usually people who have barely followed the band over the last 20 years).....Also, I wish people (1TK in this case) would stop with the libertarian thought line of acceptance that trickle down economics just doesn't work....but for some reason it would work in regards to charity....HughFreakingDillon said:
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
Also....since we're talking ideology, and 1TK and Thirty are talking Argentina and Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine...I'll bring up another Klein work that I've mentioned here a few times (I've never had anyone mention that they've actually watched it yet)....she did an awesome doc in 04 about Argentina's collectivist movement, called La Toma (or The Take)....it's an example of how the movement actually saved people after the chaos of an economy destroyed not by socialist/leftists as 1TK said, but by neoliberalism..."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Here ya go:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I'd like to watch that.Drowned Out said:
I def wouldn't say no one is against capitalism....personally, I think we all should be against it in the form it takes now....Does that mean PJ is wrong for being a part of it? No....because we all are. The part people should 'stop', IMO, is the presumption that anyone thinks PJ is not a business - we all know that, so it shouldn't be constantly thrown in leftist's faces as if we don't understand how it works (yes, there are some people who think the PJ posturing of the early 90's translates into current practice, but they're usually people who have barely followed the band over the last 20 years).....Also, I wish people (1TK in this case) would stop with the libertarian thought line of acceptance that trickle down economics just doesn't work....but for some reason it would work in regards to charity....HughFreakingDillon said:
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
Also....since we're talking ideology, and 1TK and Thirty are talking Argentina and Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine...I'll bring up another Klein work that I've mentioned here a few times (I've never had anyone mention that they've actually watched it yet)....she did an awesome doc in 04 about Argentina's collectivist movement, called La Toma (or The Take)....it's an example of how the movement actually saved people after the chaos of an economy destroyed not by socialist/leftists as 1TK said, but by neoliberalism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sug7bWxTuSo
(you have to turn the subtitles on)0 -
she's got a new movie out called This Changes Everything ... focusing on the relationship between capitalism and global warming ... not the greatest film to be quite honest ...
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All I did was comment how it was interesting as we are going left here, far away in South America they are going the other way (surprisingly according to the people I talked to). I only brought it up because it got me thinking that generally in democratic situations a correction will happen.
As for contributing to charitable organizations, once again, it is the money I make. I trade my time for money.
I stand behind my right to contribute it or organizations I want to help, not the government taxing me more to give it to who THEY think should get it. (CBC, NFB,, etc.). I do not believe in a nanny state. The government should stick to infrastructure, education, health care and a social safety net. As an adult, I do not appreciate the government (or anyone else for that matter) telling me where my hard earned money should go.
You may not agree with my sentiment, but I appreciate those who are respectful in their counter-arguments. I merely throw out things I observe in life, just to get people thinking.
Most people here were so anti-Harper they would not admit he did anything right in 10 years. That is just irrational! I was ready for a change, however the other options just didn't appeal to me.
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2004 is ten years ago bud, I was talking to Argentines today, in 2015. I was simply relaying what I heard.Drowned Out said:
I def wouldn't say no one is against capitalism....personally, I think we all should be against it in the form it takes now....Does that mean PJ is wrong for being a part of it? No....because we all are. The part people should 'stop', IMO, is the presumption that anyone thinks PJ is not a business - we all know that, so it shouldn't be constantly thrown in leftist's faces as if we don't understand how it works (yes, there are some people who think the PJ posturing of the early 90's translates into current practice, but they're usually people who have barely followed the band over the last 20 years).....Also, I wish people (1TK in this case) would stop with the libertarian thought line of acceptance that trickle down economics just doesn't work....but for some reason it would work in regards to charity....HughFreakingDillon said:
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
Also....since we're talking ideology, and 1TK and Thirty are talking Argentina and Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine...I'll bring up another Klein work that I've mentioned here a few times (I've never had anyone mention that they've actually watched it yet)....she did an awesome doc in 04 about Argentina's collectivist movement, called La Toma (or The Take)....it's an example of how the movement actually saved people after the chaos of an economy destroyed not by socialist/leftists as 1TK said, but by neoliberalism...
I couldn't walk 50 feet in some places in BA without someone saying "Cambio, Cambio" to me (I think that's what they were saying haha).
They are trying to get all the US currency they can get (and offering 16 pesos to the dollar for it on the "blue market") because they are afraid their money is going to become worthless.
Do you believe the socialist movement driving the country into debt has nothing to do with this? We are going to blame people running hedge funds for this? Argentina sold their debt and now the hedge fund investors want their money back.
Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on0 -
Good job!Drowned Out said:
Here ya go:Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I'd like to watch that.Drowned Out said:
I def wouldn't say no one is against capitalism....personally, I think we all should be against it in the form it takes now....Does that mean PJ is wrong for being a part of it? No....because we all are. The part people should 'stop', IMO, is the presumption that anyone thinks PJ is not a business - we all know that, so it shouldn't be constantly thrown in leftist's faces as if we don't understand how it works (yes, there are some people who think the PJ posturing of the early 90's translates into current practice, but they're usually people who have barely followed the band over the last 20 years).....Also, I wish people (1TK in this case) would stop with the libertarian thought line of acceptance that trickle down economics just doesn't work....but for some reason it would work in regards to charity....HughFreakingDillon said:
Oh stop it already. No one is against capitalism. No one is assuming you love harper, but if they do, its because you keep defending him and/or continue to keep it a big secret who you do support. Guess what? No one gives a shit.1ThoughtKnown said:
Thanks man!
I have to say, it is ironic that everyone is against capitalism when Pearl Jam is a rich entity because they sell their talents. Pearl Jam is a business.
I wish people were not overtaxed so, like PJ, we could give our money to causes we want to, not the government to put it where they want. It is too much like a nanny state.
The more they tax us, the less disposable income we have to help the less fortunate
Also....since we're talking ideology, and 1TK and Thirty are talking Argentina and Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine...I'll bring up another Klein work that I've mentioned here a few times (I've never had anyone mention that they've actually watched it yet)....she did an awesome doc in 04 about Argentina's collectivist movement, called La Toma (or The Take)....it's an example of how the movement actually saved people after the chaos of an economy destroyed not by socialist/leftists as 1TK said, but by neoliberalism...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sug7bWxTuSo
(you have to turn the subtitles on)
Just gotta find some time to sit and watch. I'll let you know when I do."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
I am completely on line for treaty agreements that bring people around the world together. Not ones that give corporations more power over people. I hope PMJT takes a serious look at the document and heeds its' criticism from people like Balsillie and othersI remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.0
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