Migrants rushing Europian Borders

badbrains said:

Well, seems my new avatar is ok cuz it hasn't been changed and I haven't been banned. Still trying to figure out why anyone would report an avatar.

Didn't realize this would be a big issue but it seems like most of you in here support and have an issue with what happened. Good to see that we all still believe in freedom of speech. Appreciate all the kind words of support. Even from Scott.

dignin said:

callen said:

dignin said:

callen said:

Moonpig said:

callen said:

Going to sound cold but if Europe and or Canada or the US just openly accepted all these folks more and more would come and countries would go broke, it's citizens would revolt and we would have a major mess.

Going to sound cold, but if Europe, Canada, and the US didn't drop bombs on these people as well as fund both sides of nearly every bloody conflict in the middle east then perhaps there would not be the scale of crisis we are now facing.

Bomb their country back to the stone age and then criticise them for wanting to be part of the 21st century.

Well don't disagree that the west has some responsibility but believe that many, even those that aren't refugees, well clamor to Europeans social benefit plans. happened before wests interference with Middle East and will continue afterwards. There's reason they are headed there and not less beneficial countries. Once those in poorer countries see opening more will rush. Don't blame them. Not sustainable. Only so many that pay taxes. So point only it will get uglier and European countries will be forced to hold the line. We'll see.

Maybe the us will keep it's nose out and maybe leave more decisions for intervention to Europeans that will feel ramifications more.

You are making a lot of assumptions here callen. A lot of these refugees are educated people that will add to an economy/society, and not be a burden. You happen to live in a country built on the backs of immigrants and refugees, and so do I.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-6-2015-1.2984153/refugees-pay-more-income-tax-to-canada-than-millionaire-migrants-1.2984201

And let's be clear, the vast majority of these Syrian refugees are leaving Syria because they have to, not because they want to. Their home and way of life has been completely destroyed.

Okay Digin so you've referenced my post few times and repeated that I'm making assumptions.

First agreed the west has some responsibility for this crisis so that's not it. Stated that maybe the west will think little harder before it invades or meddles in others affairs. Im a huge critic of our involvement.

So now to rest of my post. It's no secret to many In the world that getting to Germany or England is a goal for many. Due to social systems. I've personally spoken to people that told me point blank that they wanted to go to Germany because of the benefits. I've listened to interviews by those that are crossing Mediterranean that their goal is to go to England due to assistance. So don't feel this is an assumption but let me know if you disagree.
I know people that live in Germany and they are concerned with number of auslanders as they call them. Again have listened to interviews and many say same thing.
I don't doubt that many are displaced and do feel this is a crises but also feel that many will see this as an opportunity to join the migration. Again people have been flocking to Europe for many years and Europe has been liberal in accepting them but they will have to control and not just let everybody in. Merkel said just this. Same reason many in US don't want to grant citizenship to current illegals cause fear is it will embolden more. I agree with this. Again I don't blame humans for doing this. They have guts. More than I.

As to paying their fare share and eventually paying back what they receive? Well that remains to be determined. Adding million people, schooling medical food shelter will add big tax burden initially. I've countered those that say illegals in US mooch off system and don't pay taxes. I know this isn't true. They pay sales tax and SSN that they'll never receive. They don't get food stamps or go to dr's because they are trying to stay away from authorities. Different for these refugees. They will get assistance and the current taxpayers will pay now. So my statement the populations of these European countries will push back. Even the non right wing hate groups.

So do I have hard facts to back up my post, no, but let's see how this pans out.

Peace.

Thanks for the well thought out response Callen. I have nothing really to argue about with this post, all good points.

Annafalk said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

badbrains said:

Well, seems my new avatar is ok cuz it hasn't been changed and I haven't been banned. Still trying to figure out why anyone would report an avatar.

Didn't realize this would be a big issue but it seems like most of you in here support and have an issue with what happened. Good to see that we all still believe in freedom of speech. Appreciate all the kind words of support. Even from Scott.

The new avatar is hilarious.

I hope you get that I wasn't suggesting censorship... I was questioning appropriateness.

I think your post was very well put, good thinking

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

pdalowsky said:

oftenreading said:

rr165892 said:

Ben,My position is this.
I see a similar migration of exiled folks who's lives have been uprooted and life turned upside down as I do the Jews fleeing occupied areas during and prior to WW2.I see some Parralel issues and really feel for these folks.I want to see countries help.

I think all this nonsense started because I commented on some of the western posters that said they would open their homes to these refugees.If true that is awesome and heartwarming,but like many things on these boards I thought It was lip service bullshit on behalf of some(not all) and I made a comment on the hypocrisy by stating they should go to a homeless shelter and help someone in need right here.That didn't go over well with some.Oh well,it happenes.Then like always someone blames the U.S. For this problem which I acknowledge may have been part of original destabilization but that Assads regime and IsIs are the one directly responsible now.
I also commented that I wouldn't let strangers stay in my house but would be fine with helping with $$.
Oh,and I commented on that I thought UK would have a issue with the influx of more Muslims.Based on my visit there and the comments we heard non Muslim locals making.Nart
thinks I'm off base so I asked one of our UK posters to verify the feeling on the ground in England.To date no one commented.thats it pal.Ive stated nothing negative about the fleeing families other then wishing them safe passage.So you tell me,where do I stand on this?

Actually, FYI pdalowsky commented at length this morning, a few posts above yours. Not being nit-picky here - you may be interested in reading that post as it seems you missed it.

Page 6 if of interest. I would happily expand further and add more detail of the types of mentality encountered and prevalent in society in the north of England and the countries geographical balance in terms of ethnicity. I would repeat that to get the impression that was formed in London and mentioned earlier, is HUGELY surprising.

I'm sorry I missed your comment.I went back and re read it.
I stayed by Hyde Park/Marble Arch just a block of Oxford when in London for 10 days in mid May.i can only speak to MY experience and what I saw and Heard.
My wife is of British birth and it was her first time back since childhood.
Cab drivers,shop keepers,store clerks and bartenders all made a comments unasked or unsolicited by Us in regards to the large and growing Muslim community within London.
I can tell you,it is the most noticeably Muslim city I have ever been to.Not that there is anything at all wrong with that just saying there was many,many full burkas and head scarfs.
There are areas of London where we were told not to go as folks there want only activities in line with Sharia law and will give you shit on the street.
Hell,even at the hotel my lovely wife came out of the gym rocking a LuLu lemon tank top and Yoga pants after her workout and was basically shunned and ignored by the full burka wearing women who were near her in the breakfast line.It watched it and it wasn't polite.Thats not hear nor there,just observations.
When we traveled up to Birmingham,it was impossible not to see the same.
Don't get me wrong some of the Muslim folks we met were very engaging and nice,others would ignore us after I engaged them in conversation or the niceties of daily living(holding doors,elevators,etc)
So do my eyes and ears descieve me ? Is what I saw not what is going on in London and the UK.

Sorry RR, but that's no diff than walking in a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn or an Amish community right here in the U.S.. You and your wife would get the same looks. Is there bigot neighborhoods all around? Of course there is. It's everywhere and every race/religion has them. What I think is funny is that I travel a lot too. And out of all the places I've been too, the Arab nations were the most hospitipal of all. I've been all over Europe, Russia and the Mediterranean. I'm as white as they come. Maybe it's in what you choose to see.

Oh,I completely agree Nart.The segregated areas like you said are everywhere.We have them here.I can't comment on the Arab nations,never been although Dubai, is on my bucket list for sure.
Keep in mind I am not passing judgement on England's immigration issues or complexities,I am simply repeating what was said by locals when there.As stated above ,my personal interactions were a mixed bag.Some nice ,some rude .But that is with every group isn't it?

pdalowsky said:

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

pdalowsky said:

oftenreading said:

rr165892 said:

Ben,My position is this.
I see a similar migration of exiled folks who's lives have been uprooted and life turned upside down as I do the Jews fleeing occupied areas during and prior to WW2.I see some Parralel issues and really feel for these folks.I want to see countries help.

I think all this nonsense started because I commented on some of the western posters that said they would open their homes to these refugees.If true that is awesome and heartwarming,but like many things on these boards I thought It was lip service bullshit on behalf of some(not all) and I made a comment on the hypocrisy by stating they should go to a homeless shelter and help someone in need right here.That didn't go over well with some.Oh well,it happenes.Then like always someone blames the U.S. For this problem which I acknowledge may have been part of original destabilization but that Assads regime and IsIs are the one directly responsible now.
I also commented that I wouldn't let strangers stay in my house but would be fine with helping with $$.
Oh,and I commented on that I thought UK would have a issue with the influx of more Muslims.Based on my visit there and the comments we heard non Muslim locals making.Nart
thinks I'm off base so I asked one of our UK posters to verify the feeling on the ground in England.To date no one commented.thats it pal.Ive stated nothing negative about the fleeing families other then wishing them safe passage.So you tell me,where do I stand on this?

Actually, FYI pdalowsky commented at length this morning, a few posts above yours. Not being nit-picky here - you may be interested in reading that post as it seems you missed it.

Page 6 if of interest. I would happily expand further and add more detail of the types of mentality encountered and prevalent in society in the north of England and the countries geographical balance in terms of ethnicity. I would repeat that to get the impression that was formed in London and mentioned earlier, is HUGELY surprising.

I'm sorry I missed your comment.I went back and re read it.
I stayed by Hyde Park/Marble Arch just a block of Oxford when in London for 10 days in mid May.i can only speak to MY experience and what I saw and Heard.
My wife is of British birth and it was her first time back since childhood.
Cab drivers,shop keepers,store clerks and bartenders all made a comments unasked or unsolicited by Us in regards to the large and growing Muslim community within London.
I can tell you,it is the most noticeably Muslim city I have ever been to.Not that there is anything at all wrong with that just saying there was many,many full burkas and head scarfs.
There are areas of London where we were told not to go as folks there want only activities in line with Sharia law and will give you shit on the street.
Hell,even at the hotel my lovely wife came out of the gym rocking a LuLu lemon tank top and Yoga pants after her workout and was basically shunned and ignored by the full burka wearing women who were near her in the breakfast line.It watched it and it wasn't polite.Thats not hear nor there,just observations.
When we traveled up to Birmingham,it was impossible not to see the same.
Don't get me wrong some of the Muslim folks we met were very engaging and nice,others would ignore us after I engaged them in conversation or the niceties of daily living(holding doors,elevators,etc)
So do my eyes and ears descieve me ? Is what I saw not what is going on in London and the UK.

Sorry RR, but that's no diff than walking in a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn or an Amish community right here in the U.S.. You and your wife would get the same looks. Is there bigot neighborhoods all around? Of course there is. It's everywhere and every race/religion has them. What I think is funny is that I travel a lot too. And out of all the places I've been too, the Arab nations were the most hospitipal of all. I've been all over Europe, Russia and the Mediterranean. I'm as white as they come. Maybe it's in what you choose to see.

Oh,I completely agree Nart.The segregated areas like you said are everywhere.We have them here.I can't comment on the Arab nations,never been although Dubai, is on my bucket list for sure.
Keep in mind I am not passing judgement on England's immigration issues or complexities,I am simply repeating what was said by locals when there.As stated above ,my personal interactions were a mixed bag.Some nice ,some rude .But that is with every group isn't it?

BTW Dubai is incredible

rr165892 said:

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

pdalowsky said:

oftenreading said:

rr165892 said:

Ben,My position is this.
I see a similar migration of exiled folks who's lives have been uprooted and life turned upside down as I do the Jews fleeing occupied areas during and prior to WW2.I see some Parralel issues and really feel for these folks.I want to see countries help.

I think all this nonsense started because I commented on some of the western posters that said they would open their homes to these refugees.If true that is awesome and heartwarming,but like many things on these boards I thought It was lip service bullshit on behalf of some(not all) and I made a comment on the hypocrisy by stating they should go to a homeless shelter and help someone in need right here.That didn't go over well with some.Oh well,it happenes.Then like always someone blames the U.S. For this problem which I acknowledge may have been part of original destabilization but that Assads regime and IsIs are the one directly responsible now.
I also commented that I wouldn't let strangers stay in my house but would be fine with helping with $$.
Oh,and I commented on that I thought UK would have a issue with the influx of more Muslims.Based on my visit there and the comments we heard non Muslim locals making.Nart
thinks I'm off base so I asked one of our UK posters to verify the feeling on the ground in England.To date no one commented.thats it pal.Ive stated nothing negative about the fleeing families other then wishing them safe passage.So you tell me,where do I stand on this?

Actually, FYI pdalowsky commented at length this morning, a few posts above yours. Not being nit-picky here - you may be interested in reading that post as it seems you missed it.

Page 6 if of interest. I would happily expand further and add more detail of the types of mentality encountered and prevalent in society in the north of England and the countries geographical balance in terms of ethnicity. I would repeat that to get the impression that was formed in London and mentioned earlier, is HUGELY surprising.

I'm sorry I missed your comment.I went back and re read it.
I stayed by Hyde Park/Marble Arch just a block of Oxford when in London for 10 days in mid May.i can only speak to MY experience and what I saw and Heard.
My wife is of British birth and it was her first time back since childhood.
Cab drivers,shop keepers,store clerks and bartenders all made a comments unasked or unsolicited by Us in regards to the large and growing Muslim community within London.
I can tell you,it is the most noticeably Muslim city I have ever been to.Not that there is anything at all wrong with that just saying there was many,many full burkas and head scarfs.
There are areas of London where we were told not to go as folks there want only activities in line with Sharia law and will give you shit on the street.
Hell,even at the hotel my lovely wife came out of the gym rocking a LuLu lemon tank top and Yoga pants after her workout and was basically shunned and ignored by the full burka wearing women who were near her in the breakfast line.It watched it and it wasn't polite.Thats not hear nor there,just observations.
When we traveled up to Birmingham,it was impossible not to see the same.
Don't get me wrong some of the Muslim folks we met were very engaging and nice,others would ignore us after I engaged them in conversation or the niceties of daily living(holding doors,elevators,etc)
So do my eyes and ears descieve me ? Is what I saw not what is going on in London and the UK.

Sorry RR, but that's no diff than walking in a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn or an Amish community right here in the U.S.. You and your wife would get the same looks. Is there bigot neighborhoods all around? Of course there is. It's everywhere and every race/religion has them. What I think is funny is that I travel a lot too. And out of all the places I've been too, the Arab nations were the most hospitipal of all. I've been all over Europe, Russia and the Mediterranean. I'm as white as they come. Maybe it's in what you choose to see.

Oh,I completely agree Nart.The segregated areas like you said are everywhere.We have them here.I can't comment on the Arab nations,never been although Dubai, is on my bucket list for sure.
Keep in mind I am not passing judgement on England's immigration issues or complexities,I am simply repeating what was said by locals when there.As stated above ,my personal interactions were a mixed bag.Some nice ,some rude .But that is with every group isn't it?