Another Bullsh$@ Manufactured story to provoke the race card.

muskydan · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
Gern Blansten said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
The whole point is that he should never have ordered her to get out of the car in the first place. There was no justification for it, so he backed himself into a corner by doing it. When she didn't comply, he didn't have the right to escalate it to physical force, but he didn't see any other option because his better judgment was clouded by anger. This is a "two wrongs don't make a right" situation - if he hadn't ordered her out of the car without any real justification to do so, and had instead just issued the ticket and allowed her to leave, then he wouldn't have felt compelled to reach in, yank her out, and threaten to taser her. The fact that he (and you) didn't see any other option at that point doesn't make it the right option.
Donald Trump, the Univ of South Carolina law professor and ME agree with you. Please take comfort in this.
He doesn't have to have justification to ask her to step out if the car.

Sorry last 12, he does and he without question did have justification in this case.

Last-12-Exit · July 2015

muskydan said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
The whole point is that he should never have ordered her to get out of the car in the first place. There was no justification for it, so he backed himself into a corner by doing it. When she didn't comply, he didn't have the right to escalate it to physical force, but he didn't see any other option because his better judgment was clouded by anger. This is a "two wrongs don't make a right" situation - if he hadn't ordered her out of the car without any real justification to do so, and had instead just issued the ticket and allowed her to leave, then he wouldn't have felt compelled to reach in, yank her out, and threaten to taser her. The fact that he (and you) didn't see any other option at that point doesn't make it the right option.
Donald Trump, the Univ of South Carolina law professor and ME agree with you. Please take comfort in this.
He doesn't have to have justification to ask her to step out if the car.
Sorry last 12, he does and he without question did have justification in this case.

I have heard otherwise musky. Does each state have separate laws on that or is that federal. If I'm wrong, I'll own it.

Gern Blansten · July 2015

See my link above....the supreme court says police can ask you to leave your vehicle during a traffic stop.

you didn't know that muskydan?

muskydan · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
muskydan said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
The whole point is that he should never have ordered her to get out of the car in the first place. There was no justification for it, so he backed himself into a corner by doing it. When she didn't comply, he didn't have the right to escalate it to physical force, but he didn't see any other option because his better judgment was clouded by anger. This is a "two wrongs don't make a right" situation - if he hadn't ordered her out of the car without any real justification to do so, and had instead just issued the ticket and allowed her to leave, then he wouldn't have felt compelled to reach in, yank her out, and threaten to taser her. The fact that he (and you) didn't see any other option at that point doesn't make it the right option.
Donald Trump, the Univ of South Carolina law professor and ME agree with you. Please take comfort in this.
He doesn't have to have justification to ask her to step out if the car.
Sorry last 12, he does and he without question did have justification in this case.
I have heard otherwise musky. Does each state have separate laws on that or is that federal. If I'm wrong, I'll own it.

Not sure about that one, probable cause is needed in my state and since the officer witnessed a violation of a traffic law he can ask her to step out of her car. If she refuses he can give her a lawful order to step out of the car. If that don't work it's time to go hands on...which is when the cameras come on and everybody gets their panties on a bunch when you see just the hands on stuff which is rarely a pretty scene.

PJ_Soul · July 2015

muskydan said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:

JUST A GIRL said:
I've never seen so many sheep in my life.

Here's some facts for this thread.

No one is responsible for the death except the person who took the life, which was not the officer, or anyone besides the person who killed them selves.

Thousands of people a day are arrested. Not all of them kill themselves. It's not on anyone but the person who makes that decision.

It doesn't matter if the cop said "you're an angel" or if he said "you're a fucking turd" either way he did not kill anyone.

All of this talk, over this, because the mainstream media brainwashes you guys into thinking this shit is important. Like others have mentioned, why is the multiple black on black crimes ignored, but these crimes aren't?

Sometimes stereotypes are there for a reason, and in this case it's justified. Less than 13% of America is made up of blacks, but over 50% of murders are committed by blacks. I love how this is ignored 99% of the time.

Maybe so many blacks wouldn't be killed by police if they weren't crossing lines and breaking laws.

And to answer a few things mentioned here

The reason she was asked how long she was in Texas is because the law states you have 10-14 days to update your license after moving. If it's not it's a ticketable offense.

And the officer had every right to ask her to put out the smoke. It's her ignorance and self entitledment that led her to believe she didn't have to. You can be arrested for obstruction of justice for just about anything, including not complying with an officers order (the defenition of obstruction)

Again, at the end of the day, no one killed this woman but herself. Regardless of how she ended up where she did, she's at fault.

If I killed myself and blamed you guys would it make it right? It wouldnt. Same here with this situation.

It's time to wake up and realize this, and many other specific cases are thrust into the media purposefully, with the intention to fuel these debates on race and police, when it's truly all by design to keep your minds off of the real, bigger issues wrong with this country/government.

No need to reply directly to me, as I won't reply anymore. It's clear people don't care about my opinion here. But it's sad and pathetic to read all this crying over this case. How pc have we become?

Bottom line is this. We decide what actions we take. Our own actions (usually) decide what happens to us. I don't get murderer by the police because I follow the law and am not out in the street waving guns around or robbing stores. Again, maybe there's a reason all of these cases involve black people.

Lastly. Over the weekend a white man was arrested after a concert. He was thought to have been high on lsd. The police hog tied him
And placed him facedown on a stretcher, and then secured his head to he stretcher, face down. He also died in police custody. Not by suicide but through true police negligence. How
Many of you have heard that story? Not too many i assume. Again, it's all by design and specific cases are beat to death in the media on purpose.

Try and wake up and see the bigger picture here. The closed mindedness and flock mentality is staggering. I've lost a lot of respect for people here through this thread.

And now.. Let's pretend I didn't say a word and, please carry on
Why isn't there an eyeroll emoji on this site???
Because many people on here go through their life w/ blinders on and refuse to acknowledge the real problems of society by placing blame on everyone else ...especially blaming the big bad racist Po-Leeses

Not really. This is just condescending, dismissive bullshit with no relation to reality. It's just a really cheap and easy way to try and get a point across.

rgambs · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.

I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?

rgambs · July 2015

rr165892 said:
You guys seem to think he escalated this.Are you fucking kidding me about who took this shit next level?

Escalation doesn't occur all at once. It progresses in steps. If the cop was your employee in your business would you be excusing his share of the escalation?

mickeyrat · July 2015

mickeyrat said:
Might be just semantics but we hear often about an officer needing control.

Seems being in command of a situation is better as opposed to being in control of a situation.

To me in command suggests a more nuanced less emotion driven approach.

If you seek to control the situation you've already lost it.

Musky what do you think?

Last-12-Exit · July 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.
I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?

No. But i do have a Charleston 9 sticker to go along with my stick man.

rgambs · July 2015

jeffbr said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
Would that be so terrible? When you take that attitude that a cop can't ever back down, you are guaranteed to violate rights.
So compliance with cops is now an optional thing? That's an interesting tactic for cops to take. "I'm going to tell you to do something. You get to decide whether you'd like to or not. If you choose not to, we'll just shrug our shoulders and call it good." Which orders or situations should fall into this category? "License and registration please?", or "Please put out your cigarette?", or "Drop your weapon?", or "Take your hands out of your pockets and keep them where I can see them?". Are you saying the cops should ignore non-compliance? Are you suggesting that we get to choose which lawful orders we get to disregard without consequence? I'm not really following the logic here.

Of course I am not suggesting we get to choose which lawful order we will follow. I am suggesting that we have a right to question which orders are lawful, and if we are able to demonstrate that we are within our rights, the cop should back down.
This woman wasn't behaving well, but she was exercising her rights. If the officer thinks she is a threat, that is fine, but if he is detaining her for asserting her rights, it is a violation.

Last-12-Exit · July 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
jeffbr said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
Would that be so terrible? When you take that attitude that a cop can't ever back down, you are guaranteed to violate rights.
So compliance with cops is now an optional thing? That's an interesting tactic for cops to take. "I'm going to tell you to do something. You get to decide whether you'd like to or not. If you choose not to, we'll just shrug our shoulders and call it good." Which orders or situations should fall into this category? "License and registration please?", or "Please put out your cigarette?", or "Drop your weapon?", or "Take your hands out of your pockets and keep them where I can see them?". Are you saying the cops should ignore non-compliance? Are you suggesting that we get to choose which lawful orders we get to disregard without consequence? I'm not really following the logic here.

Of course I am not suggesting we get to choose which lawful order we will follow. I am suggesting that we have a right to question which orders are lawful, and if we are able to demonstrate that we are within our rights, the cop should back down.
This woman wasn't behaving well, but she was exercising her rights. If the officer thinks she is a threat, that is fine, but if he is detaining her for asserting her rights, it is a violation.

No you don't have that right. Just get out of the car. Unless you reasonably don't think it is a cop. Then, who knows?

rgambs · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.
I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?
No. But i do have a Charleston 9 sticker to go along with my stick man.

Around here, you put your station sticker in your back window and you don't get tickets. If it's big enough, you don't get pulled over.
These are not my words, they are straight from the horse's mouth.

Last-12-Exit · July 2015

I know about the stickers. I do not support the fraternal order so I don't get stickers. I have gotten out of tickets through my relationships with state and county police.

rgambs · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

jeffbr said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Correct. She cannot refuse his order once directed. She can bitch about it (say whatever she wants), but she must comply.
And if she doesn't comply, he doesn't necessarily have the right to escalate to physical force, and in this case it likely wasn't justified. That was the point of the link I posted.
Doesn't 'necessarily'.

What would you have the officer do once she rebuffs his demand? Admit defeat?
Would that be so terrible? When you take that attitude that a cop can't ever back down, you are guaranteed to violate rights.
So compliance with cops is now an optional thing? That's an interesting tactic for cops to take. "I'm going to tell you to do something. You get to decide whether you'd like to or not. If you choose not to, we'll just shrug our shoulders and call it good." Which orders or situations should fall into this category? "License and registration please?", or "Please put out your cigarette?", or "Drop your weapon?", or "Take your hands out of your pockets and keep them where I can see them?". Are you saying the cops should ignore non-compliance? Are you suggesting that we get to choose which lawful orders we get to disregard without consequence? I'm not really following the logic here.

Of course I am not suggesting we get to choose which lawful order we will follow. I am suggesting that we have a right to question which orders are lawful, and if we are able to demonstrate that we are within our rights, the cop should back down.
This woman wasn't behaving well, but she was exercising her rights. If the officer thinks she is a threat, that is fine, but if he is detaining her for asserting her rights, it is a violation.
No you don't have that right. Just get out of the car. Unless you reasonably don't think it is a cop. Then, who knows?

That right has been judiciated away by the ever expanding definition of "reasonable cause"

rr165892 · July 2015

Last-12-Exit said:
I know about the stickers. I do not support the fraternal order so I don't get stickers. I have gotten out of tickets through my relationships with state and county police.

And blow jobs

rr165892 · July 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
rr165892 said:
You guys seem to think he escalated this.Are you fucking kidding me about who took this shit next level?
Escalation doesn't occur all at once. It progresses in steps. If the cop was your employee in your business would you be excusing his share of the escalation?

Agreed.If he worked for me,I would do what his CO will probably do.Look at situation,realize technically he did nothing wrong,but I would teach him about better ways to reach the same conclusion and ask him to work on it a bit so it dosent come back to haunt us in the future.Everything is a learning experience.

rr165892 · July 2015

PJ_Soul said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

PJ_Soul said:

Last-12-Exit said:

PJ_Soul said:

Last-12-Exit said:

PJ_Soul said:
I think the cop was definitely an instigator of aggression. He had no reason to be grilling that woman the way he was, asking her those questions, and making her get out of the car. He approached the whole thing poorly, and the woman had what I see as an understandable reaction, taking into account the tension between cops and black people in America right now. The cop really should know better. Should she have bitten her tongue? Yes. Should the cop have approached her like a normal cop would during a routine traffic stop? Yes. If anyone should shoulder responsibility for doing something wrong, it should be the COP. He's doing a paid service. He has some responsibilities to meet as a trained, paid employee of the city and a keeper of the peace. The woman is under no such responsibility.

But that actually has nothing to do with the real problem here. I'm much more concerned about her death in police custody.
That's unbelievable. Your first sentence anyway. Even though I don't think cops should have to babysit all prisoners all the time, people should be able to hang themselves in the cells.
But what if she didn't hang herself?? That is the entire point.
Ok. I doubt the arresting officer killed her.
No idea. You never know. Or someone other cop. Indon't think thst because I hate cops.or anything, or because I think cops killing prisoners is common. I'm just reserving it as a possibility because something seems fishy in this particular case. Crazier shit has happened. This isn't a prediction.... it probably does say something about my view of the whole cops/corruption/racism issue in the US, but really my mind is going towards the bizarre. The kinds of cases that end up being studied on an A&E crime documentary.
Pj, I haven't seen where anyone said an investigation shouldn't happen. I think the main issue here is the woman and the cops behavior here. Conditions in county jails across this nation warrants a thread by itself, IMO.
I am going directly off of the OP. "Manufactured bullshit" suggests to me that this isn't worth investigation as far as the OP is concerned.
Okay, how would an autopsy tell anyone if the woman killed herself? Suicide is really easy to fake I should think.

I stated that because when this story broke I felt like this was another situation that was going to use race to blow the facts out of proportion.Hype it up to get traction.
And PJ that's exactly what the family and counsel did .Not so much race,but the whole us vs PoPo thing.

muskydan · July 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.
I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?
No. But i do have a Charleston 9 sticker to go along with my stick man.
Around here, you put your station sticker in your back window and you don't get tickets. If it's big enough, you don't get pulled over.
These are not my words, they are straight from the horse's mouth.

You also get your windows bashed in and car keyed by the many Police haters in this once great nation. Wise off duty police don't put identifiers on their automobiles at all.

rr165892 · July 2015

muskydan said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.
I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?
No. But i do have a Charleston 9 sticker to go along with my stick man.
Around here, you put your station sticker in your back window and you don't get tickets. If it's big enough, you don't get pulled over.
These are not my words, they are straight from the horse's mouth.
You also get your windows bashed in and car keyed by the many Police haters in this once great nation. Wise off duty police don't put identifiers on their automobiles at all.

Yeah but you can't hide the donut ,fast food and coffee stench that come s from the interior.lol

muskydan · July 2015

rr165892 said:

show previous quotes
muskydan said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:
She was even saying the whole time he was cuffing her "all this over a lane change"

unbelievable

again, to you that just don't see the issue....I agree with the law professor from the Univ of South Carolina. Your opinion means nothing to me.
It wasn't over just a lane change. It was over her idiocy.
So idiocy is a crime now?
Nope. Her refusal to get out of the car is illegal. She didn't get out because she's an idiot.
And he was forcing her out because he's a dick, it looks like the blame is shared pretty equally.
I disagree on the blame. This is her fault. The cop, maybe he was a dick, was doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I would have almost rather seen him punch her in the face. Then your arguments would have merit. Anything to bash a cop.
Hahaha anything to protect the reputation of your brothers.
That you consider this "doing his job" says more than I ever could.
Once again, I am not a cop. They are not my brothers.
I've known many first responders and there is a definite brotherhood between police and EMT/Fire. Do you have a sticker on your window?
No. But i do have a Charleston 9 sticker to go along with my stick man.
Around here, you put your station sticker in your back window and you don't get tickets. If it's big enough, you don't get pulled over.
These are not my words, they are straight from the horse's mouth.
You also get your windows bashed in and car keyed by the many Police haters in this once great nation. Wise off duty police don't put identifiers on their automobiles at all.
Yeah but you can't hide the donut ,fast food and coffee stench that come s from the interior.lol

Tru Dat...lol. Nice one my man

Another Bullsh$@ Manufactured story to provoke the race card.

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