Supreme Court Same Sex Marriage Legal Nationwide

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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited July 2015
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I don't think marriage has any relevancy anyways. This whole situation is about recognizing the rights of individuals.

    I am not married to my partner. I call my partner 'wife' only because it most easily expresses her relationship to me when I refer to her to other people. We have been faithfully together for 20 years and have two children- ages 17 and 14. We got a really cool cat too. Our household is as happy as can be- no ancient ritual could possibly help make it better.

    Why aren't we married? We are not married because marriage, like many things, is a farce- it's a relic from the past when we were very simple and thought that such events were critical. Words uttered by some priest do not solidify or make a relationship- divorce rates prove that. We talked about doing it, but ultimately, we never felt the need to take money out of our line of credit and throw a big, plastic ceremony to show everyone we are committed to each other.

    I remember many people urging us to do as they did and formally get married (implying our relationship wasn't valid maybe?). Many... in fact... most of these people have since divorced.

    We had a wedding mostly for the party. Always fun to have an excuse to get everyone together for a nice celebration. We also did it on the cheap so it wasn't a burden on anyone financially. And religion played no part in it.

    But yeah, I mostly agree that it's just a piece of paper and not for everyone.
    Post edited by dignin on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I don't think marriage has any relevancy anyways. This whole situation is about recognizing the rights of individuals.

    I am not married to my partner. I call my partner 'wife' only because it most easily expresses her relationship to me when I refer to her to other people. We have been faithfully together for 20 years and have two children- ages 17 and 14. We got a really cool cat too. Our household is as happy as can be- no ancient ritual could possibly help make it better.

    Why aren't we married? We are not married because marriage, like many things, is a farce- it's a relic from the past when we were very simple and thought that such events were critical. Words uttered by some priest do not solidify or make a relationship- divorce rates prove that. We talked about doing it, but ultimately, we never felt the need to take money out of our line of credit and throw a big, plastic ceremony to show everyone we are committed to each other.

    I remember many people urging us to do as they did and formally get married (implying our relationship wasn't valid maybe?). Many... in fact... most of these people have since divorced.

    We had a wedding mostly for the party. Always fun to have an excuse to get everyone together for a nice celebration. We also did it on the cheap so it wasn't a burden on anyone financially. And religion played no part in it.

    But yeah, I mostly agree that it's just a piece of paper and not for everyone.
    Each to their own, dignin!

    If it worked for you... no judgements here.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    rgambs said:

    Godfather. said:

    goingtoverona said:

    @godfather, I don't think you fully comprehend the ramifications of what happened when you said you would vote. you're still saying your attitude is "believe as you wish" but when you said you would vote you put a little asterisk at the bottom saying, "hey guys, I know I said believe what you want to believe, but I have these moral values that I live by that stem from my religion and given the opportunity I am going to try and make all of you live by my same values.....just a heads up."

    that's the subtle message you send when you say you would vote to have people abide by your own personal religious preferences.

    o.k but in a vote situation we all have the same opertunity right ? I am not asking anybody to change thier morals or opinions but if the state/fed's are going to force a law on us it's up to us to accept that law at a personal leval meaning we may abide by that law but may not agree with it (and there are a lot of those) it's not my place to force anything on anybody, all I have are my personal views and on this site we talk about those views and opinions most of the time, just because you accept G/M and I do not does not mean either one of is a bad person it just means we have different opinions on the subject and we can talk about our opinions and still respect each other.

    Godfather.

    You are missing the point, the state/Fed isn't forcing anything on you. If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry a dude. It's that simple. This is America, where we are supposed to be free to do as we please if it doesn't harm anyone else.
    By voting against It, YOU are the one forcing something on someone else.
    I understand what your saying and believe it or not agree with free to do as we please(to a point) this is just a topic I can't even believe we are debating, man the world has changed.......it's just hard for me to say uncle on this one LOL !!

    Godfather.

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I don't think marriage has any relevancy anyways. This whole situation is about recognizing the rights of individuals.

    I am not married to my partner. I call my partner 'wife' only because it most easily expresses her relationship to me when I refer to her to other people. We have been faithfully together for 20 years and have two children- ages 17 and 14. We got a really cool cat too. Our household is as happy as can be- no ancient ritual could possibly help make it better.

    Why aren't we married? We are not married because marriage, like many things, is a farce- it's a relic from the past when we were very simple and thought that such events were critical. Words uttered by some priest do not solidify or make a relationship- divorce rates prove that. We talked about doing it, but ultimately, we never felt the need to take money out of our line of credit and throw a big, plastic ceremony to show everyone we are committed to each other.

    I remember many people urging us to do as they did and formally get married (implying our relationship wasn't valid maybe?). Many... in fact... most of these people have since divorced.

    We had a wedding mostly for the party. Always fun to have an excuse to get everyone together for a nice celebration. We also did it on the cheap so it wasn't a burden on anyone financially. And religion played no part in it.

    But yeah, I mostly agree that it's just a piece of paper and not for everyone.
    Each to their own, dignin!

    If it worked for you... no judgements here.
    I do hear you, Thirty.

    We married after 14 years together, just the two of us at the local courthouse, by a JOP. She asked us why we decided to do it after so much time (none of her business, really!), and it was difficult to articulate. We just wanted it, knew / felt it was time.

    No party or hoopla and it didn't even matter - we had one of the best days ever.

    Everyone - if they want it and no matter how - should have access to it.

    GF, I think that's the gist here.

  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    It's pretty simple to me. Marriage is a contract. Religion really plays no part in it other than tradition. My wife insisted on getting married in a church. Which meant I had to sit in front of the preacher and basically lie to him so he would perform the ceremony. It was a joke.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,019
    Last-12-Exit said:

    It's pretty simple to me. Marriage is a contract. Religion really plays no part in it other than tradition. My wife insisted on getting married in a church. Which meant I had to sit in front of the preacher and basically lie to him so he would perform the ceremony. It was a joke.

    Lol. Good for you, doing that for your wife. I always figured I might have to flat out refuse if I married someone who wanted to have a religious wedding (though I can't really imagine that I'd marry someone who would want that, frankly). But I admire that you just kept your mouth shut and did it for her. :)
    I will also have to refuse to swear on a bible, if I ever happen to be asked to do that. I have heard that they have a contingency plan for that in court though.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Okay. So legal and church weddings are two totally separate things.

    So the next toughie in my opinion is can some one discriminate and withhold services if against their beliefs.

    Wedding cake makers caterers etc?

    I've expressed position that if you serve the public you can't discriminate.

    But then think of wedding photographers. Again......... Thoughts.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • goingtoverona
    goingtoverona Posts: 616
    it's gonna be the same thing as racism. yeah racism is frowned upon and is viewed as politically incorrect, and in some instances illegal, but are there still racists? of course there are. I predict there are going to be people "standing up" for their religious beliefs, and that will end up costing most of those people their jobs or businesses. that cake maker that went out of business after being boycotted received a shit ton of money from religious supporters, but I think that there will be so many religious zealots boohooing that there won't be enough money to go around like that. in the end whether you don't like gays or blacks or women or muslims or whoever, most people will just keep it to themselves, if out of nothing more than self preservation.
    if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    My knee jerk reaction is serve everyone or no one but I don't know anymore. The Wedding Photographer. Against their beliefs. They are deep into the gay wedding.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,019
    edited July 2015
    callen said:

    Okay. So legal and church weddings are two totally separate things.

    So the next toughie in my opinion is can some one discriminate and withhold services if against their beliefs.

    Wedding cake makers caterers etc?

    I've expressed position that if you serve the public you can't discriminate.

    But then think of wedding photographers. Again......... Thoughts.

    I certainly don't think that business should be able to refuse immediate customer service (i.e. not sell coffee to a gay person who comes into the coffee shop). But I figure that those who provide the kinds of services you're talking about, like really working on a contract, can refuse to provide that service for any reason, be it them being too busy to take more clients, them thinking the event or whatever just isn't something that suits their style, or because they think the client's personality is too unpleasant to deal with, or because they aren't interested in being a part of a gay wedding.
    Of course, if these people knew what was best for them, they'd keep their fucking traps shut about it. Just like you probably wouldn't tell a really irritating person that that is why you aren't working for them, you also shouldn't tell a gay person that that is why you aren't serving them (of course, not serving a gay person because they're gay is FUCKING EVIL, but hey, there is no law saying you can't be a horrible asshole). But to be honest, I go back and forth a bit with this. Sometimes I think what I just said. Other times I think fuck that, no one should be able to refuse anything to customers just because of race, gender, disability, or sexual orientation. Today I guess I am just feeling generous (to bigots). ;)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    edited July 2015
    Gays, blacks, whites, hispanics, french, japanese, trannys, jews, christians, hindus, and Canadians all have one thing in common: their money is all green and spends the same. It would just be stupid and a poor business decision for people to turn them down based on anything.
    Post edited by Last-12-Exit on
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Last-12-Exit said:

    Gays, blacks, whites, hispanics, french, japanese, trannys, jews, christians, hindus, and Canadians all have one thing in common: their money is all green and spends the same. It would just be stupid and a poor business decision for people to turn them down based on anything.

    You forgot atheists =)

    Agreed on your point, but should they choose to refuse, their business will flourish or flounder.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    hedonist said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    Gays, blacks, whites, hispanics, french, japanese, trannys, jews, christians, hindus, and Canadians all have one thing in common: their money is all green and spends the same. It would just be stupid and a poor business decision for people to turn them down based on anything.

    You forgot atheists =)

    Agreed on your point, but should they choose to refuse, their business will flourish or flounder.
    IF they were to refuse services, they would have to say it was because of something other than sexual orientation or color or gender. Otherwise, it's discrimination and illegal. And hopefully their business would flounder.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Yeah I don't see it as a big issue. Weddings are the only situation where a person would have a legitimate reason to not want to participate. Weddings are also strictly scheduled, so an invented scheduling conflict would exempt you from providing services.
    If you want to make a stand out of It, the ramifications are your own fault.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,019
    rgambs said:

    Yeah I don't see it as a big issue. Weddings are the only situation where a person would have a legitimate reason to not want to participate. Weddings are also strictly scheduled, so an invented scheduling conflict would exempt you from providing services.
    If you want to make a stand out of It, the ramifications are your own fault.

    Agreed. It's stupid to advertise your bigotry when you have a business.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    PJ_Soul said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    It's pretty simple to me. Marriage is a contract. Religion really plays no part in it other than tradition. My wife insisted on getting married in a church. Which meant I had to sit in front of the preacher and basically lie to him so he would perform the ceremony. It was a joke.

    Lol. Good for you, doing that for your wife. I always figured I might have to flat out refuse if I married someone who wanted to have a religious wedding (though I can't really imagine that I'd marry someone who would want that, frankly). But I admire that you just kept your mouth shut and did it for her. :)
    I will also have to refuse to swear on a bible, if I ever happen to be asked to do that. I have heard that they have a contingency plan for that in court though.
    Yes, you can "affirm" rather than swear on a bible. I've done it and there was no problem; you are just asked if you would prefer to swear or affirm.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • j1kotwic
    j1kotwic Posts: 168
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I don't think marriage has any relevancy anyways. This whole situation is about recognizing the rights of individuals.

    I am not married to my partner. I call my partner 'wife' only because it most easily expresses her relationship to me when I refer to her to other people. We have been faithfully together for 20 years and have two children- ages 17 and 14. We got a really cool cat too. Our household is as happy as can be- no ancient ritual could possibly help make it better.

    Why aren't we married? We are not married because marriage, like many things, is a farce- it's a relic from the past when we were very simple and thought that such events were critical. Words uttered by some priest do not solidify or make a relationship- divorce rates prove that. We talked about doing it, but ultimately, we never felt the need to take money out of our line of credit and throw a big, plastic ceremony to show everyone we are committed to each other.

    I remember many people urging us to do as they did and formally get married (implying our relationship wasn't valid maybe?). Many... in fact... most of these people have since divorced.

    I dated my girlfriend for 13 years before we got married. Sorta felt like we were married after a few years though. For her and I personally, is was really important to get married in our church and have god, and our family and friends as witnesses. It was the greatest experience of my life so far... PJ in Detroit 2014 would be the second best experience. But I would strongly disagree that marriage is a farce. The day we got married profoundly changed our relationship and it has felt different from the previous 13 years ever since. As far as the plastic ceremony and reception go, ours were very nice. Nothing crazy or anything though. Had good food and some awesome craft beers for everyone. The point of it was not to show everyone that we were committed to eachother though. After all, the wedding wasn't all about us. It was also very much about our parents, grandparents, family and friends. I always enjoy going to other peoples wedding because they are such joyous occasions.

    Not saying your relationship with your partner isn't as meaningful as my relationship with my wife, just expressing my opposing view on what a marriage ceremony means.

    You're right about divorce. In our marriage prep class the first thing the priest asked us was "do you know what the divorce rate of America is? It's 50%. Do you know the divorce rate is among catholics is? Well, its also 50%."







  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    j1kotwic said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I don't think marriage has any relevancy anyways. This whole situation is about recognizing the rights of individuals.

    I am not married to my partner. I call my partner 'wife' only because it most easily expresses her relationship to me when I refer to her to other people. We have been faithfully together for 20 years and have two children- ages 17 and 14. We got a really cool cat too. Our household is as happy as can be- no ancient ritual could possibly help make it better.

    Why aren't we married? We are not married because marriage, like many things, is a farce- it's a relic from the past when we were very simple and thought that such events were critical. Words uttered by some priest do not solidify or make a relationship- divorce rates prove that. We talked about doing it, but ultimately, we never felt the need to take money out of our line of credit and throw a big, plastic ceremony to show everyone we are committed to each other.

    I remember many people urging us to do as they did and formally get married (implying our relationship wasn't valid maybe?). Many... in fact... most of these people have since divorced.

    I dated my girlfriend for 13 years before we got married. Sorta felt like we were married after a few years though. For her and I personally, is was really important to get married in our church and have god, and our family and friends as witnesses. It was the greatest experience of my life so far... PJ in Detroit 2014 would be the second best experience. But I would strongly disagree that marriage is a farce. The day we got married profoundly changed our relationship and it has felt different from the previous 13 years ever since. As far as the plastic ceremony and reception go, ours were very nice. Nothing crazy or anything though. Had good food and some awesome craft beers for everyone. The point of it was not to show everyone that we were committed to eachother though. After all, the wedding wasn't all about us. It was also very much about our parents, grandparents, family and friends. I always enjoy going to other peoples wedding because they are such joyous occasions.

    Not saying your relationship with your partner isn't as meaningful as my relationship with my wife, just expressing my opposing view on what a marriage ceremony means.

    You're right about divorce. In our marriage prep class the first thing the priest asked us was "do you know what the divorce rate of America is? It's 50%. Do you know the divorce rate is among catholics is? Well, its also 50%."







    awesome post ! I wish good things for you and your wife.

    Godfather.

  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    this is bullshit !.....
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html?intcmp=latestnews

    Godfather.
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Godfather. said:

    this is bullshit !.....
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html?intcmp=latestnews

    Godfather.

    it funny how fox news is ok with people breaking laws when it for something they believe in. if you break a law they like then you are a criminal.



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