Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck

JimmyV · May 2015

I was stunned by how far he had deteriorated. I just typed "at the end" to close that sentence but had to delete it. It wasn't just at the end. The entire time Courtney was on the scene he looked to be using heavy. Maybe the amount of his drug use was known in some circles but I didn't know.

Was struck by the six months he took off after Nevermind. All the money...where did it go? They were living in what looked like a shitty, dirty little apartment. Filming each other high as kites, sores on every arm. It was tough to watch.

Beyond the drugs, there was the music. I enjoyed the lullaby and other takes on Nirvana songs used as a score. I know this is sacrilege and not a widely held opinion, but I don't think their music has held up very well. So much of it just sounds dated today. Watching last night really hammered that home. The Unplugged album was this one-off show that has become their definitive recording. The rest of the catalogue has just aged very poorly. I do think, without the suicide, Cobain would be a fringe character today. Closer to Billy Corgan than rock god.

TFlyer · May 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:
Just eatched some interviews with the director...days he regrets not being able to schedule time to interview grohl....same interview...comments how he has been making this film for 8 years....yeah, something fishy about that.....

Keep hearing different stories, will be interesting when the dvd comes out to see if there actually was an interview with Grohl because from what I read....He said that Grohl was busy when he was originally asked and by the time he interviewed him he had the edit of the film that he wanted for the screenings and film festivals etc. the stories aren't matching up so there seems to be something there.

JimmyV said:
I was stunned by how far he had deteriorated. I just typed "at the end" to close that sentence but had to delete it. It wasn't just at the end. The entire time Courtney was on the scene he looked to be using heavy. Maybe the amount of his drug use was known in some circles but I didn't know.

Was struck by the six months he took off after Nevermind. All the money...where did it go? They were living in what looked like a shitty, dirty little apartment. Filming each other high as kites, sores on every arm. It was tough to watch.

I agree completely with this part of what you said. There were times watching it when I was on the vergs of tears. We all new things were bad with him but this showed us that they were worse than we ever thought. Other documentaries in the past had made it seem like there was a breaking point late in his career where with the documents/notebooks/tapes/etc this let us see that it was always "THAT" bad. One of the things that hit me hard was his suicide attempt as a young adult and all the other new things brought to light from his early years. Again it was just showing you that he was always on the edge. So saddening.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

that train track scene was crazy. I cried a few times during the film, especially at the end. I could have done without Courtney's boobs.

I disagree that their music has not held up well. Had he not killed himself, I'm sure he wouldn't be a rock god (no one is for that long), but I think all 3 of their albums are as killer today as they were when they were released.

primussucks · May 2015

Courtney definitely killed kurt! She encouraged his heroin use and he had a HUGE fear of abandonment from his upbringing so when she started cheating (or he thought she was cheating on him) that was the end! That's what I got out of the film.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

JimmyV said:
I was stunned by how far he had deteriorated. I just typed "at the end" to close that sentence but had to delete it. It wasn't just at the end. The entire time Courtney was on the scene he looked to be using heavy. Maybe the amount of his drug use was known in some circles but I didn't know.

Was struck by the six months he took off after Nevermind. All the money...where did it go? They were living in what looked like a shitty, dirty little apartment. Filming each other high as kites, sores on every arm. It was tough to watch.

Beyond the drugs, there was the music. I enjoyed the lullaby and other takes on Nirvana songs used as a score. I know this is sacrilege and not a widely held opinion, but I don't think their music has held up very well. So much of it just sounds dated today. Watching last night really hammered that home. The Unplugged album was this one-off show that has become their definitive recording. The rest of the catalogue has just aged very poorly. I do think, without the suicide, Cobain would be a fringe character today. Closer to Billy Corgan than rock god.

back in those days, the money you made depended on the record deal you had. Nevermind was their first album with Geffen, so the deal probably wouldn't have been that lucrative (no one thought they'd blow up the way they did), and the artist generally gets paid last after everyone else involved in making the record.

and junkies live in filth, no matter how much money you have.

Pearl Jam, from what I read, didn't start seeing any money from Ten until after VS was released.

the frances haircutting scene was difficult.

TFlyer · May 2015

^ There were things I took away from certain scenes....like the hair cutting one and I felt that Courtney projected negative energy into Kurt. She has always rubbed me the wrong way and I have never been a fan, but that aside....seeing some of the ways she teased Kurt annoyed me. Earlier on in the film they focused on how he was so easily set off by being picked on etc and then to see the person he loved doing it (which most people would shrug off but who knows if he did) just didn't sit right with me.

Also the way she talks now in interviews saying that she was always a junkie but never planned to use again until she met Kurt. That makes it sound as if she is blaiming him for the things she has done and that also rubbed me the wrong way.

I do agree though with their music being still as solid now as it ever was. Just wanted to make that clear. I do think the craze would've calmed a bit but they would always remain pioneers and legends.

2-feign-reluctance · May 2015

I don't plan on watching. His decent towards suicide is well documented in Heavier Than Heaven and after reading that I needed to know nothing more. Reading some of the comments here about what the movie shows, I just don't think I could bare it. Especially seeing him with Frances as a little one. Ugh, just too much to handle.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

2-feign-reluctance said:
I don't plan on watching. His decent towards suicide is well documented in Heavier Than Heaven and after reading that I needed to know nothing more. Reading some of the comments here about what the movie shows, I just don't think I could bare it. Especially seeing him with Frances as a little one. Ugh, just too much to handle.

for me, what stuck out the most, was the footage of him as a child. he was so happy. it was so sad to see that and then realize what that happy little boy turned into. maybe it resonates with me more as a dad, I don't know, hoping my kids don't endure what he did.

the animation footage was amazing. there were scenes of him animated, playing along to actual recorded tapes. it was surreal.

I know what you mean, chris. I'm about as sensitive and tear-jerked as any guy I know. but this movie actually HELPED my image of him. he seemed like a great dad, even though he was a junkie. he LOVED his little girl. the movie humanized him in a way that no book has ever been able to do. HTH was a sad story. Montage has a sad ending, but the movie itself was not.

I found myself physically angry during the interviews with his dad and step-mom.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

TFlyer said:
^ There were things I took away from certain scenes....like the hair cutting one and I felt that Courtney projected negative energy into Kurt. She has always rubbed me the wrong way and I have never been a fan, but that aside....seeing some of the ways she teased Kurt annoyed me. Earlier on in the film they focused on how he was so easily set off by being picked on etc and then to see the person he loved doing it (which most people would shrug off but who knows if he did) just didn't sit right with me.

Also the way she talks now in interviews saying that she was always a junkie but never planned to use again until she met Kurt. That makes it sound as if she is blaiming him for the things she has done and that also rubbed me the wrong way.

I do agree though with their music being still as solid now as it ever was. Just wanted to make that clear. I do think the craze would've calmed a bit but they would always remain pioneers and legends.

I've never liked Courtney either, or the media potrayal of her, or the potrayal she made for herself, but I honestly didn't notice her teasing him. what part? I noticed them playfully teasing each other here or there, but I didn't notice her doing anything maliciously.

2-feign-reluctance · May 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

2-feign-reluctance said:
I don't plan on watching. His decent towards suicide is well documented in Heavier Than Heaven and after reading that I needed to know nothing more. Reading some of the comments here about what the movie shows, I just don't think I could bare it. Especially seeing him with Frances as a little one. Ugh, just too much to handle.
for me, what stuck out the most, was the footage of him as a child. he was so happy. it was so sad to see that and then realize what that happy little boy turned into. maybe it resonates with me more as a dad, I don't know, hoping my kids don't endure what he did.

the animation footage was amazing. there were scenes of him animated, playing along to actual recorded tapes. it was surreal.

I know what you mean, chris. I'm about as sensitive and tear-jerked as any guy I know. but this movie actually HELPED my image of him. he seemed like a great dad, even though he was a junkie. he LOVED his little girl. the movie humanized him in a way that no book has ever been able to do. HTH was a sad story. Montage has a sad ending, but the movie itself was not.

I found myself physically angry during the interviews with his dad and step-mom.

Yeah, I think I'm afraid to see/access that part of him. The bits that would make his suicide all that much harder to digest, still 20+ years later.

facepollution · May 2015

The haircutting scene was brutal, people can hurl all the abuse they want at Courtney but this is what he descended into, and that can't have been easy to deal with for anyone involved, including Courtney.
I'm not really sure what I made of the film. Artistically I think it was pretty incredible, and I do think it helped to dispel some of the myth surrounding him. The situation just felt so dark and sad. Maybe it was a little too voyeuristic - personally after this I feel like there is nothing left that we don't know about him and his tragic ending (I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory stuff).

In terms of Nirvana's records, I disagree that they haven't stood the test of time, in fact I still think they sound pretty modern, production wise. They only sounded dated from the point of view that rock music is so unpopular in the current musical landscape.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

facepollution said:
The haircutting scene was brutal, people can hurl all the abuse they want at Courtney but this is what he descended into, and that can't have been easy to deal with for anyone involved, including Courtney.
I'm not really sure what I made of the film. Artistically I think it was pretty incredible, and I do think it helped to dispel some of the myth surrounding him. The situation just felt so dark and sad. Maybe it was a little too voyeuristic - personally after this I feel like there is nothing left that we don't know about him and his tragic ending (I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory stuff).

In terms of Nirvana's records, I disagree that they haven't stood the test of time, in fact I still think they sound pretty modern, production wise. They only sounded dated from the point of view that rock music is so unpopular in the current musical landscape.

I think people are going to be surprised that Courtney was not, in fact, the villian or control freak. of course, this is only 2 hours of footage out of their entire lives together, and it doesn't seem as though the director had any agenda, but yeah, it seemed to me as if Courtney was just constantly trying to keep their shit together.

JimmyV · May 2015

On the conspiracy stuff, when they were living in that shitty apartment my radar went off wondering how he could lie dead for days while she was unable to find him. Later, during the haircutting scene, you can see they have moved to a bigger place. That story will always smell a little fishy to me but, given the drugs, I can see how it might be possible.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

JimmyV said:
On the conspiracy stuff, when they were living in that shitty apartment my radar went off wondering how he could lie dead for days while she was unable to find him. Later, during the haircutting scene, you can see they have moved to a bigger place. That story will always smell a little fishy to me but, given the drugs, I can see how it might be possible.

he killed himself in seattle, in their greenhouse, or whatever it was. courtney didn't know he went back there from the LA treatment centre he had been in.

facepollution · May 2015

The way I see it, junkies either get better through rehab, or they die. You can't continue to be a functioning addict forever, and certainly not if you're trying to maintain a career as the singer in the biggest band in the world. Kurt knew his fate as soon as he decided to leave that rehab centre.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

facepollution said:
The way I see it, junkies either get better through rehab, or they die. You can't continue to be a functioning addict forever, and certainly not if you're trying to maintain a career as the singer in the biggest band in the world. Kurt knew his fate as soon as he decided to leave that rehab centre.

and it always amazes me how rock stars randomly run into each other. Kurt seeing Duff McKagan on his flight home. Then that story of Jeff Ament getting stuck in his truck, and along comes Krist Novoselic. they all run into each other, but no one runs into them!

buck502000 · May 2015

Kurt was a star - he will never be forgotten......

darthvedder · May 2015

buck502000 said:
Kurt was a star - he will never be forgotten......

Kurt was a human being. He was no fuckin' messiah!

JimmyV · May 2015

Just a haunting film. Still thinking about it more than a day later.

jonsey30 · May 2015

Shit was really sad, he was never happy his whole life. It was all about rejection from his family.

I always thought that Courtney was his downfall, but he was worse than her. She was "clean" when they met, and like any struggling addict being around another junkie, she caved.

I was really surprised that nobody ever got him help for his clear case of depression from a young age. But then again, his life was all rejection, and people not caring enough to do anything about his problems really isn't that surprising.

Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.

Worth a watch for sure, especially if you don't really know the story of Kurt. I agree that Courtney's tits are gross. Huge areolas

Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck

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