The haircutting scene was brutal, people can hurl all the abuse they want at Courtney but this is what he descended into, and that can't have been easy to deal with for anyone involved, including Courtney. I'm not really sure what I made of the film. Artistically I think it was pretty incredible, and I do think it helped to dispel some of the myth surrounding him. The situation just felt so dark and sad. Maybe it was a little too voyeuristic - personally after this I feel like there is nothing left that we don't know about him and his tragic ending (I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory stuff).
In terms of Nirvana's records, I disagree that they haven't stood the test of time, in fact I still think they sound pretty modern, production wise. They only sounded dated from the point of view that rock music is so unpopular in the current musical landscape.
The haircutting scene was brutal, people can hurl all the abuse they want at Courtney but this is what he descended into, and that can't have been easy to deal with for anyone involved, including Courtney. I'm not really sure what I made of the film. Artistically I think it was pretty incredible, and I do think it helped to dispel some of the myth surrounding him. The situation just felt so dark and sad. Maybe it was a little too voyeuristic - personally after this I feel like there is nothing left that we don't know about him and his tragic ending (I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory stuff).
In terms of Nirvana's records, I disagree that they haven't stood the test of time, in fact I still think they sound pretty modern, production wise. They only sounded dated from the point of view that rock music is so unpopular in the current musical landscape.
I think people are going to be surprised that Courtney was not, in fact, the villian or control freak. of course, this is only 2 hours of footage out of their entire lives together, and it doesn't seem as though the director had any agenda, but yeah, it seemed to me as if Courtney was just constantly trying to keep their shit together.
On the conspiracy stuff, when they were living in that shitty apartment my radar went off wondering how he could lie dead for days while she was unable to find him. Later, during the haircutting scene, you can see they have moved to a bigger place. That story will always smell a little fishy to me but, given the drugs, I can see how it might be possible.
On the conspiracy stuff, when they were living in that shitty apartment my radar went off wondering how he could lie dead for days while she was unable to find him. Later, during the haircutting scene, you can see they have moved to a bigger place. That story will always smell a little fishy to me but, given the drugs, I can see how it might be possible.
he killed himself in seattle, in their greenhouse, or whatever it was. courtney didn't know he went back there from the LA treatment centre he had been in.
The way I see it, junkies either get better through rehab, or they die. You can't continue to be a functioning addict forever, and certainly not if you're trying to maintain a career as the singer in the biggest band in the world. Kurt knew his fate as soon as he decided to leave that rehab centre.
The way I see it, junkies either get better through rehab, or they die. You can't continue to be a functioning addict forever, and certainly not if you're trying to maintain a career as the singer in the biggest band in the world. Kurt knew his fate as soon as he decided to leave that rehab centre.
and it always amazes me how rock stars randomly run into each other. Kurt seeing Duff McKagan on his flight home. Then that story of Jeff Ament getting stuck in his truck, and along comes Krist Novoselic. they all run into each other, but no one runs into them!
Shit was really sad, he was never happy his whole life. It was all about rejection from his family.
I always thought that Courtney was his downfall, but he was worse than her. She was "clean" when they met, and like any struggling addict being around another junkie, she caved.
I was really surprised that nobody ever got him help for his clear case of depression from a young age. But then again, his life was all rejection, and people not caring enough to do anything about his problems really isn't that surprising.
Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.
Worth a watch for sure, especially if you don't really know the story of Kurt. I agree that Courtney's tits are gross. Huge areolas
7/19/13 - Wrigley Field, Chicago, IL
10/11/13 - Pittsburgh, PA
10/12/13 - Buffalo, NY
10/16/2014 - Detroit, MI 5/10/2016 - Toronto, ON 3/24/2020 - Hamilton, ON 9/7/2023 - Chicago, IL
Shit was really sad, he was never happy his whole life. It was all about rejection from his family.
I always thought that Courtney was his downfall, but he was worse than her. She was "clean" when they met, and like any struggling addict being around another junkie, she caved.
I was really surprised that nobody ever got him help for his clear case of depression from a young age. But then again, his life was all rejection, and people not caring enough to do anything about his problems really isn't that surprising.
Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.
Worth a watch for sure, especially if you don't really know the story of Kurt. I agree that Courtney's tits are gross. Huge areolas
Said the same thing to my wife about the aeriolas. Not my thing. Lol.
Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.
The Rolling Stone article with Frances is really worth reading. She said her main goal was to dispel the myth behind Kurt Cobain. Show that he was just a human being. I think it succeeded in that regard. I hope today's teenagers who buy Nirvana shirts at Hot Topic watch it.
I also couldn't help but think about Eddie Vedder's situation growing up. While not exactly the same, there were enough similarities to think that Eddie could have gone down the same road. They both found music, which elevated them. While it ended up saving Eddie, it eventually killed Kurt.
I'm halfway through it and gonna watch the rest later. I'm loving any and all of rare vintage clips and recordings of Kurt as well as the interviews with his parents, ex-girlfriend, Krist, etc, But man, I can't even put into words how much I hate the pretentious music videos, montages, and animated crap. Just beyond awful.
Well to each their own I guess. For me, the documentary parts were so strong that I just wasn't up for that sort of stuff. By the end, I was skipping past them. But overall I thought the movie was great and the home footage of him and Courtney was pretty interesting.
Is this available to watch anywhere other than HBO?
I saw it in the movie theater. You can probably do a search to see if it is in a theater near you. My guess is that it will eventually be available on iTunes and on DVD. I heard that they released it in the theaters so it could be eligible for Best Documentary at the Oscars next year.
I think I'm just gonna use my free HBO Now trial. Unfortunately, the closest theatre screening for me is Toronto - a good 6 hours one way. I've never been a big fan of Kurt. Hoping this shows me something that'll help me see what the masses see in him.
Just reading what everybody here and people on fb say I am not sure I would want to see it. Even though I am curious. Sigh. I hope he is happier where he is now.
And as for Courtney showing her hooha... That band is called HOLE!
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
I saw it twice in the cinema. I had to see it again just to take it all in again plus I read an article after seeing it the first time where Brett Morgen said the Nirvana songs in the film were specially mixed for cinemas and should be seen in cinemas to get the perfect sound. Man I wanted to mosh in there when School and Floyd were played. I loved the choir version of Teen Spirit, it was so moving, the birth of a star. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2vnFPUg4FU
I found that scene of Kurt smashing the acoustic guitar with Courtney on top of him cringe-worthy. It was uncomfortable to watch.
As for the doco itself, yeah it is sad about Kurt's life story but it also touched on bad experiences I had growing up (being unpopular) and how I feel about life in general. Kurt was a lot like many of us, same issues. Kurt's dad looked like Kurt in that 60's home footage.
I want to buy the book, soundtrack and blu ray.
Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive on
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I don't plan on watching. His decent towards suicide is well documented in Heavier Than Heaven and after reading that I needed to know nothing more. Reading some of the comments here about what the movie shows, I just don't think I could bare it. Especially seeing him with Frances as a little one. Ugh, just too much to handle.
for me, what stuck out the most, was the footage of him as a child. he was so happy. it was so sad to see that and then realize what that happy little boy turned into. maybe it resonates with me more as a dad, I don't know, hoping my kids don't endure what he did.
the animation footage was amazing. there were scenes of him animated, playing along to actual recorded tapes. it was surreal.
I know what you mean, chris. I'm about as sensitive and tear-jerked as any guy I know. but this movie actually HELPED my image of him. he seemed like a great dad, even though he was a junkie. he LOVED his little girl. the movie humanized him in a way that no book has ever been able to do. HTH was a sad story. Montage has a sad ending, but the movie itself was not.
I found myself physically angry during the interviews with his dad and step-mom.
Why the step-mom?
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I was stunned by how far he had deteriorated. I just typed "at the end" to close that sentence but had to delete it. It wasn't just at the end. The entire time Courtney was on the scene he looked to be using heavy. Maybe the amount of his drug use was known in some circles but I didn't know.
Was struck by the six months he took off after Nevermind. All the money...where did it go? They were living in what looked like a shitty, dirty little apartment. Filming each other high as kites, sores on every arm. It was tough to watch.
Beyond the drugs, there was the music. I enjoyed the lullaby and other takes on Nirvana songs used as a score. I know this is sacrilege and not a widely held opinion, but I don't think their music has held up very well. So much of it just sounds dated today. Watching last night really hammered that home. The Unplugged album was this one-off show that has become their definitive recording. The rest of the catalogue has just aged very poorly. I do think, without the suicide, Cobain would be a fringe character today. Closer to Billy Corgan than rock god.
Dated? No way. So many young people in the cinema that were around 18-20 years old. Their music still sounds like it was made today for today's world.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
I don't plan on watching. His decent towards suicide is well documented in Heavier Than Heaven and after reading that I needed to know nothing more. Reading some of the comments here about what the movie shows, I just don't think I could bare it. Especially seeing him with Frances as a little one. Ugh, just too much to handle.
for me, what stuck out the most, was the footage of him as a child. he was so happy. it was so sad to see that and then realize what that happy little boy turned into. maybe it resonates with me more as a dad, I don't know, hoping my kids don't endure what he did.
the animation footage was amazing. there were scenes of him animated, playing along to actual recorded tapes. it was surreal.
I know what you mean, chris. I'm about as sensitive and tear-jerked as any guy I know. but this movie actually HELPED my image of him. he seemed like a great dad, even though he was a junkie. he LOVED his little girl. the movie humanized him in a way that no book has ever been able to do. HTH was a sad story. Montage has a sad ending, but the movie itself was not.
I found myself physically angry during the interviews with his dad and step-mom.
Why the step-mom?
she seemed very indifferent. the way she talked (or the way it was edited) made it seem that he was just a problem she wanted to disappear.
I was stunned by how far he had deteriorated. I just typed "at the end" to close that sentence but had to delete it. It wasn't just at the end. The entire time Courtney was on the scene he looked to be using heavy. Maybe the amount of his drug use was known in some circles but I didn't know.
Was struck by the six months he took off after Nevermind. All the money...where did it go? They were living in what looked like a shitty, dirty little apartment. Filming each other high as kites, sores on every arm. It was tough to watch.
Beyond the drugs, there was the music. I enjoyed the lullaby and other takes on Nirvana songs used as a score. I know this is sacrilege and not a widely held opinion, but I don't think their music has held up very well. So much of it just sounds dated today. Watching last night really hammered that home. The Unplugged album was this one-off show that has become their definitive recording. The rest of the catalogue has just aged very poorly. I do think, without the suicide, Cobain would be a fringe character today. Closer to Billy Corgan than rock god.
Dated? No way. So many young people in the cinema that were around 18-20 years old. Their music still sounds like it was made today for today's world.
I was having a similar discussion with a friend the other day. Doesn't it ALWAYS seem that Nirvana gravitates toward the high school/college demographic. Then they grow out of it once they get a little bit older. I think they do teenage angst really well, but beyond that, there really isn't much staying power.
To paraphrase Matthew McConnaughey, "I get older, Nirvana fans stay the same age."
Whoops, still have this on the DVR. Gotta find a time to watch this. Judging from the reviews, I better be in the right mental state too--sounds incredibly heavy.
"Sometimes you find yourself having to put all your faith in no faith."
~not a dude~
2010: MSGx2
2012: Made In America
2013: Pittsburgh, Brooklynx2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Leeds, Milton Keynes, Detroit
2015: Global Citizen Festival
2016: Phillyx2, MSGx2, Fenwayx2 2018: Barcelona, Wrigleyx2
Until I saw this I tended to be a Courtney Love apologist. After watching this, do I think she killed KC? No. Not like some conspiracy theorists suggest. But it is clear after watching this that while he was spinning out of control, the people closest to him did not do him any favors--particularly Courtney by cheating on him (or planning to cheat). First as a kid, Kurt is rejected by his family that reared him; then ultimately he is rejected by the family he created as an adult. KC of course is not absolved of responsibility for his own demise, but he certainly could have picked a better wife based on who he was and what his weaknesses were -- that much is clear to me after watching this documentary.
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikkhmkAH72U). Who knows who was in the audience, but with what was to ensue over the next few days and weeks, it seems like he was sending a message to someone with this song.
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.
Post edited by Smarter_Than_U on
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron
Comments
I'm not really sure what I made of the film. Artistically I think it was pretty incredible, and I do think it helped to dispel some of the myth surrounding him. The situation just felt so dark and sad. Maybe it was a little too voyeuristic - personally after this I feel like there is nothing left that we don't know about him and his tragic ending (I don't buy any of the conspiracy theory stuff).
In terms of Nirvana's records, I disagree that they haven't stood the test of time, in fact I still think they sound pretty modern, production wise. They only sounded dated from the point of view that rock music is so unpopular in the current musical landscape.
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I always thought that Courtney was his downfall, but he was worse than her. She was "clean" when they met, and like any struggling addict being around another junkie, she caved.
I was really surprised that nobody ever got him help for his clear case of depression from a young age. But then again, his life was all rejection, and people not caring enough to do anything about his problems really isn't that surprising.
Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.
Worth a watch for sure, especially if you don't really know the story of Kurt. I agree that Courtney's tits are gross. Huge areolas
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www.headstonesband.com
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www.cluthe.com
I also couldn't help but think about Eddie Vedder's situation growing up. While not exactly the same, there were enough similarities to think that Eddie could have gone down the same road. They both found music, which elevated them. While it ended up saving Eddie, it eventually killed Kurt.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
www.headstonesband.com
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
And as for Courtney showing her hooha... That band is called HOLE!
I had to see it again just to take it all in again plus I read an article after seeing it the first time where Brett Morgen said the Nirvana songs in the film were specially mixed for cinemas and should be seen in cinemas to get the perfect sound. Man I wanted to mosh in there when School and Floyd were played.
I loved the choir version of Teen Spirit, it was so moving, the birth of a star.
I found that scene of Kurt smashing the acoustic guitar with Courtney on top of him cringe-worthy. It was uncomfortable to watch.
As for the doco itself, yeah it is sad about Kurt's life story but it also touched on bad experiences I had growing up (being unpopular) and how I feel about life in general. Kurt was a lot like many of us, same issues. Kurt's dad looked like Kurt in that 60's home footage.
I want to buy the book, soundtrack and blu ray.
Their music still sounds like it was made today for today's world.
I just don't have the urge to see this. Kurt is a very tired topic to me.
www.headstonesband.com
To paraphrase Matthew McConnaughey, "I get older, Nirvana fans stay the same age."
~not a dude~
2010: MSGx2
2012: Made In America
2013: Pittsburgh, Brooklynx2, Hartford, Baltimore
2014: Leeds, Milton Keynes, Detroit
2015: Global Citizen Festival
2016: Phillyx2, MSGx2, Fenwayx2
2018: Barcelona, Wrigleyx2
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.