Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
yeah it was theorized and written about and probably confirmed that Courtney was hanging with Billy at the time. I was wondering if she was going to come right out and say his name, it looked like the thought occurred to her during the interview
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
Just watched this and was taken through the ringer of emotions of this documentary. Good to see the footage of them playing to small crowds while Bleach was out before they got famous, I mean they were playing in that record shop for the release of Nevermind and they were crowd surfing.
He was definitely a bright, talented, vivacious, caring kid and then his world was shattered by that divorce and the embrassment and shame that brought to him. That was definitely life changing for him.
The footage of him and Courtney living together after they were married was stunning, they were totally high out of their minds during alot of that footage. I too thought that one scene was uncomfortable where Kurt was breaking that guitar and Courtney hanging on to him. Sad to see the haircut scene but you can tell Kurt would have been a good dad if not for the massive drug problem. He seemed to be entertained by childish things and would be able to be entertained and be entertained with Frances wholeheartedly.
Hilarious scenes ridiculing the media with Frances in the camera using a kid voice as well as mouthing the words to the fan letters to Sassy that Courtney was reading
1998 ~ Barrie
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
Just finished this last night. Words cannot describe, but all I want to accomplish today is to listen to With The Lights Out in it's entirety and then buy up all the other released live tracks I don't already own.
A lot has already been mentioned on this thread, but the trippy animations they somehow did on his artwork (I assume it was all his) was incredible. The production value of this movie alone make it worth a watch/purchase.
Other highlights...the early shows, the animation (some of which were 'dubbed' over actual recordings), and the happy parts in his life where he smiled and enjoyed Frances (while not completely stoned).
The lowlights (hard to watch)...obviously his decay and the scenes where he's loaded out of his mind with Frances around. We're not talking being high on some grass here...but the hardcore shit.
And then there is Courtney. Not sure what to say here. You can question if she's either pretty hard up for additional money/exposure, or you could say she's courageous for allowing this to surface. I mean, how much more personal can you get??? Did she take it too far? Perhaps. But if Frances was okay with it, so be it.
As far as some posts saying Nirvana is dated. Totally disagree. Nirvana will always be relevant as long as there are youths who are having a hard time fitting into society. And even at 42 years old, all of their music still strikes a chord with me.
19 Pearl Jam shows and still searching for Deep! 1998 (2) - East Lansing & Auburn Hills; 2000 (2) - Tampa & Noblesville; 2003 (2) - Lexington & Noblesville; 2006 (1) - Cincinnati; 2007 (1) - Chicago (Lollapalooza); 2008 (Ed in Milwaukee); 2009 (1) - Chicago; 2010 (1) - Noblesville; 2013 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2016 (Temple of the Dog in Los Angeles); 2017 (Ed at Ohana in Dana Point); 2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
yes, she shared her clam with us back at 1995 Lollapalooza as well.
l
Seems like Courtney's hole could have its own thread.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
And then there is Courtney. Not sure what to say here. You can question if she's either pretty hard up for additional money/exposure, or you could say she's courageous for allowing this to surface. I mean, how much more personal can you get??? Did she take it too far? Perhaps. But if Frances was okay with it, so be it.
According to the Rolling Stone interview with Frances, Courtney had no editorial role in the documentary. It was Courtney's idea in the first place, but as soon as Frances turned 18, she started calling the shots.
Just finished this last night. Words cannot describe, but all I want to accomplish today is to listen to With The Lights Out in it's entirety and then buy up all the other released live tracks I don't already own.
A lot has already been mentioned on this thread, but the trippy animations they somehow did on his artwork (I assume it was all his) was incredible. The production value of this movie alone make it worth a watch/purchase.
Other highlights...the early shows, the animation (some of which were 'dubbed' over actual recordings), and the happy parts in his life where he smiled and enjoyed Frances (while not completely stoned).
The lowlights (hard to watch)...obviously his decay and the scenes where he's loaded out of his mind with Frances around. We're not talking being high on some grass here...but the hardcore shit.
And then there is Courtney. Not sure what to say here. You can question if she's either pretty hard up for additional money/exposure, or you could say she's courageous for allowing this to surface. I mean, how much more personal can you get??? Did she take it too far? Perhaps. But if Frances was okay with it, so be it.
As far as some posts saying Nirvana is dated. Totally disagree. Nirvana will always be relevant as long as there are youths who are having a hard time fitting into society. And even at 42 years old, all of their music still strikes a chord with me.
I am 31 almost and Nirvana are the only band whose music I can relate to so deeply. Heck, I still struggle to fit in with society and feel down a lot so until I find the light Nirvana will be my light.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Until I saw this I tended to be a Courtney Love apologist. After watching this, do I think she killed KC? No. Not like some conspiracy theorists suggest. But it is clear after watching this that while he was spinning out of control, the people closest to him did not do him any favors--particularly Courtney by cheating on him (or planning to cheat). First as a kid, Kurt is rejected by his family that reared him; then ultimately he is rejected by the family he created as an adult. KC of course is not absolved of responsibility for his own demise, but he certainly could have picked a better wife based on who he was and what his weaknesses were -- that much is clear to me after watching this documentary.
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikkhmkAH72U). Who knows who was in the audience, but with what was to ensue over the next few days and weeks, it seems like he was sending a message to someone with this song.
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.
He should've stayed with Tracey.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Until I saw this I tended to be a Courtney Love apologist. After watching this, do I think she killed KC? No. Not like some conspiracy theorists suggest. But it is clear after watching this that while he was spinning out of control, the people closest to him did not do him any favors--particularly Courtney by cheating on him (or planning to cheat). First as a kid, Kurt is rejected by his family that reared him; then ultimately he is rejected by the family he created as an adult. KC of course is not absolved of responsibility for his own demise, but he certainly could have picked a better wife based on who he was and what his weaknesses were -- that much is clear to me after watching this documentary.
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikkhmkAH72U). Who knows who was in the audience, but with what was to ensue over the next few days and weeks, it seems like he was sending a message to someone with this song.
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.
He should've stayed with Tracey.
I totally agree-- it seems that that was his most creative/peaceful period based on the film.
Two other thoughts since my last post.
#1 The interview KC did with Rolling Stone with the cover "Success doesn't suck" -- it was really interesting to HEAR his voice for parts of it. He sounded really fucked up in that interview, which is not how I heard his voice when I only had access to the article; HEARING him changes that whole interview for me but sadly makes more sense now. He was clearly in a high/manic state not on solid footing as I pictured him; that interview always confused me given how happy he seemed and the proximity to his suicide.
#2 To some degree from that same interview, he talks about not having any more new songs. One of the shames of all this is the larger role Dave Grohl could have had in Nirvana.
Imagine Kurt Cobain and Dave Grohl as an actual song writing duo. Kurt would have probably pushed Dave to be less predictable and Dave would have pulled Kurt to be more accessible. The combo could have been sonic fucking heaven--our very own Lennon and McCartney for the post-punk era.
Post edited by Smarter_Than_U on
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron
Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
yeah it was theorized and written about and probably confirmed that Courtney was hanging with Billy at the time. I was wondering if she was going to come right out and say his name, it looked like the thought occurred to her during the interview
True--you could see her trying to contain herself but having trouble in that part of the interview. What she is saying doesn't even make sense because she references "a plan" and "London" but at the same time says something like "I didn't even make the call ... I only thought about it and he knew." So if there is a plan to meet somebody in London (Billy Corgan most likely) then how the fuck did that plan come to be? By osmosis?
She is not telling the full story.
Post edited by Smarter_Than_U on
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron
Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
yeah it was theorized and written about and probably confirmed that Courtney was hanging with Billy at the time. I was wondering if she was going to come right out and say his name, it looked like the thought occurred to her during the interview
True--you could see her trying to contain herself but having trouble in that part of the interview. What she is saying doesn't even make sense because she references "a plan" and "London" but at the same time says something like "I didn't even make the call ... I only thought about it and he knew." So if there is a plan to meet somebody in London (Billy Corgan most likely) then how the fuck did that plan come to be? By osmosis?
She is not telling the full story.
maybe the Pumpkins were on tour in London at the time, and she was planning on paying him a surprise visit.
Until I saw this I tended to be a Courtney Love apologist. After watching this, do I think she killed KC? No. Not like some conspiracy theorists suggest. But it is clear after watching this that while he was spinning out of control, the people closest to him did not do him any favors--particularly Courtney by cheating on him (or planning to cheat). First as a kid, Kurt is rejected by his family that reared him; then ultimately he is rejected by the family he created as an adult. KC of course is not absolved of responsibility for his own demise, but he certainly could have picked a better wife based on who he was and what his weaknesses were -- that much is clear to me after watching this documentary.
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikkhmkAH72U). Who knows who was in the audience, but with what was to ensue over the next few days and weeks, it seems like he was sending a message to someone with this song.
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.
He should've stayed with Tracey.
I totally agree-- it seems that that was his most creative period based on the film.
Two other thoughts since my last post.
#1 The interview KC did with Rolling Stone with the cover "success doesn't suck" -- it was really interesting to HEAR his voice for parts of it. He sounded really fucked up in that interview, which is not how I heard his voice when I only had it written; hearing that changes that whole thing for me but sadly makes more sense now. He was clearly in a high/manic state for that interview.
#2 To some degree from that same interview, he talks about not having any more new songs. One of the shames of all this that does not get discussed is to role Dave Grohl could have had in Nirvana. Imagine Kurt Cobain and Dave Grohl as an actual song writing duo. Kurt would have probably pushed Dave to be less predictable and Dave would have pulled Kurt to be more accessible. The combo could have been sonic fucking heaven--our very own Lennon and McCartney for the post-punk era.
#2. never thought of that. that would have been something.
Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
yeah it was theorized and written about and probably confirmed that Courtney was hanging with Billy at the time. I was wondering if she was going to come right out and say his name, it looked like the thought occurred to her during the interview
True--you could see her trying to contain herself but having trouble in that part of the interview. What she is saying doesn't even make sense because she references "a plan" and "London" but at the same time says something like "I didn't even make the call ... I only thought about it and he knew." So if there is a plan to meet somebody in London (Billy Corgan most likely) then how the fuck did that plan come to be? By osmosis?
She is not telling the full story.
maybe the Pumpkins were on tour in London at the time, and she was planning on paying him a surprise visit.
Possibly but I doubt it since they were both married and a surprise visit doesn't lend itself well to discretion.
"Goddamn Romans. Sure know how to make a ... drum room." --Matt Cameron
Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
yeah it was theorized and written about and probably confirmed that Courtney was hanging with Billy at the time. I was wondering if she was going to come right out and say his name, it looked like the thought occurred to her during the interview
True--you could see her trying to contain herself but having trouble in that part of the interview. What she is saying doesn't even make sense because she references "a plan" and "London" but at the same time says something like "I didn't even make the call ... I only thought about it and he knew." So if there is a plan to meet somebody in London (Billy Corgan most likely) then how the fuck did that plan come to be? By osmosis?
She is not telling the full story.
maybe the Pumpkins were on tour in London at the time, and she was planning on paying him a surprise visit.
Possibly but I doubt it since they were both married and a surprise visit doesn't lend itself well to discretion.
well, in pre internet days, it could easily have been pulled off. but yeah, her comments on that part were very vague.
Until I saw this I tended to be a Courtney Love apologist. After watching this, do I think she killed KC? No. Not like some conspiracy theorists suggest. But it is clear after watching this that while he was spinning out of control, the people closest to him did not do him any favors--particularly Courtney by cheating on him (or planning to cheat). First as a kid, Kurt is rejected by his family that reared him; then ultimately he is rejected by the family he created as an adult. KC of course is not absolved of responsibility for his own demise, but he certainly could have picked a better wife based on who he was and what his weaknesses were -- that much is clear to me after watching this documentary.
In terms of Courtney Love's admission that she planned to cheat on Kurt (which the documentary pretty strongly implies was what pushed him over the edge): Courtney specifically references that the planned (but aborted) affair was to happen in London and that planned affair was what led KC to overdose in Rome on 3/3/94. Something I have not heard others talk about (maybe I missed it though), is that Smashing Pumpkins had a four-night stand in London at the end of February 1994 (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=1994) immediately before Kurt's overdose in Rome. SP's presence in London combined with the fact that Courtney and Billy Corgan were together before she hooked up with Kurt and then after he died leads me to believe that Corgan was the person with which she was planning on cheating. Maybe this is something already widely theorized, but if this theory is true, it is upsetting to know that Courtney and Billy Corgan to some degree assume some blame for pushing perhaps one of the most talented (yet tortured) artists we've seen for decades into the abyss.
One other tidbit... If you look at Nirvana's setlists for the In Utero Tour, they open every night with "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter." This-- in and of itself --is not interesting. But their last show on 3/1/94 (the last show Kurt Cobain would ever play) the band makes what now seems to be --in light of the "Montage of Heck" documentary --a significant change to their opener with a Cars cover "My Best Friends' Girl" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikkhmkAH72U). Who knows who was in the audience, but with what was to ensue over the next few days and weeks, it seems like he was sending a message to someone with this song.
Beyond seeing what a sweet child he was in the home videos, what a gifted visual artist Kurt was, and being reminded of how much I absolutely love Nirvana, one of my biggest takeaways from this documentary is that it is a shame Kurt Cobain put his love and faith in to a person that was not good for him, especially given how fucked up he was coming to the table. You have to wonder if he hooked up with someone like Kathleen Hanna instead of Courtney if things would have turned out differently. We'll never know.
He should've stayed with Tracey.
I totally agree-- it seems that that was his most creative/peaceful period based on the film.
Two other thoughts since my last post.
#1 The interview KC did with Rolling Stone with the cover "Success doesn't suck" -- it was really interesting to HEAR his voice for parts of it. He sounded really fucked up in that interview, which is not how I heard his voice when I only had access to the article; HEARING him changes that whole interview for me but sadly makes more sense now. He was clearly in a high/manic state not on solid footing as I pictured him; that interview always confused me given how happy he seemed and the proximity to his suicide.
#2 To some degree from that same interview, he talks about not having any more new songs. One of the shames of all this is the larger role Dave Grohl could have had in Nirvana.
Imagine Kurt Cobain and Dave Grohl as an actual song writing duo. Kurt would have probably pushed Dave to be less predictable and Dave would have pulled Kurt to be more accessible. The combo could have been sonic fucking heaven--our very own Lennon and McCartney for the post-punk era.
Kurt & Dave would've been epic. Even Kurt & Stipe would've been fantastic. Kurt had to much material that could've made another album, as those songs on With The Lights Out box set show. Some gems there.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
It just arrived here in Australia two days ago,I purchased it straight away and shot home very interested to get it on. I am not an over the top Nirvana fan but absolutely love particular songs,especially MTV unplugged one of the best acoustic albums ever done,,that being said I don't think I would watch it again ,I am torn between feeling so sorry for what I think was a tortured lost soul best part of his life.Kurt was definitely a talent and found expression through his music but I gathered from the film Kurt was on the road to his fate if he had of been a plumber ,doctor or fisherman,obviously the drugs would maybe not have been as prevalent as the in the music scene but they would have found Kurt or be it Kurt find them I think he loved Courtney and the film betrayed this but I don't know if it was the gear or the love All in all it is a real heartbreaker and I couldn't help thinking during and even till now Eddie was in a similar place TEN,V'S and VITALOGY days also expressed this through his lyrics ,he turned that and has given us nearly 25 yrs of brilliant music,sadly Kurt isn't doing the same I have lead a pretty tortured life at times and I think great musician's that have the ability to express it through song ie EDDIE/PJ and Kurt /NIRVANA save the souls of thousands,shame Mr Cobain didn't see a little more of that side but he walked in his shoes,we can only make assumptions on what we see and if that DVD is an insight fck me ,KING OF A LONELY WORLD
Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
10-16-2014 Detroit
You guys should read the buzz Osbourne interview he did about the review he gave about this documentary.
King Buzzo is an absolute asshole. not just for what he says about the film, but everything he says about anyone around that scene. he acts like he's the only "geniune" person from that era, and that everyone else is full of shit and talentless and sell outs.
he comes off as a jealous and bitter piece of shit.
You guys should read the buzz Osbourne interview he did about the review he gave about this documentary.
King Buzzo is an absolute asshole. not just for what he says about the film, but everything he says about anyone around that scene. he acts like he's the only "geniune" person from that era, and that everyone else is full of shit and talentless and sell outs.
he comes off as a jealous and bitter piece of shit.
That maybe true but I'd take his word over Courtney Loves any day.
You guys should read the buzz Osbourne interview he did about the review he gave about this documentary.
King Buzzo is an absolute asshole. not just for what he says about the film, but everything he says about anyone around that scene. he acts like he's the only "geniune" person from that era, and that everyone else is full of shit and talentless and sell outs.
he comes off as a jealous and bitter piece of shit.
That maybe true but I'd take his word over Courtney Loves any day.
well of course. she's a liar with an agenda for her image.
but buzzo talks shit about EVERYBODY. Dave, Krist, Kurt (who he was supposedly good friends with), mudhoney, pearl jam, billy corgan, soundgarden, andrew wood, everyone. he just seems like a completely miserable person.
As much as I think Courtney Love was a NEGATIVE influence on him in ways there are some opinions I have on this.
1. how long did the love he had and relationship they have actually make his life better, so in some ways she was maybe the only positive thing he had in his life for a time. Lets not put it all in her lap. Did she actually prolong his life....I know based on what they showed she sort of got him on the Heroin thing....but beyond that
2. Kurt was a grown man, addict, mentally ill or not, he made his choices, not Courtney
3. it is really easy to judge those two based on how they acted while she was pregnant, after Francis was born, etc.....I find it hard not to do it right now, but the only person with right to judge them is Francis.
this movie was like a train wreck after a while, I could not believe what I saw in some scenes...it seems the support structure for both Kurt and Courtney failed, or they completely ignored it (probably this) This is a real hard watch
I think my favorite part was the alternate views of unplugged and the "Where did you sleep last night" right after the Courtney cheating stuff......it made the performance so incredibly more meaningful and powerful. It seemed the guys in the band knew, if you look on their faces, they seemed totally entranced by his raw, emotion laden, performance.
I don't think I like Kurt/Nirvana any more or less after the video, but his writing makes much more sense than it ever did. I wonder what things would be like if he had not died, where they would have gone personally and musically. How that would have caused a sea change to the music industry. I also noticed(not like this is some revelation fro you sorry) how alike him and Ed were in the whole fandom craze and band blowing up too fast thing, it is so sad they never got to just be guys and talk about it, how maybe they could have helped each other immensely. This story is certainly a rock cliche tragedy.
Will the record companies step up even and offer support to these bands? It seems like they could be more helpful in helping them cope with the success/touring. Instead of treating their bands like whores and pimping them out for every cent, maybe show a human side and give a shit about them....maybe then artists wouldn't be leaving your labels like rats on a sinking ship.
Also, for people that don't think this personal content should be put out there, Frances was an Executive Producer. It had to be hard enough for her to see the material, but I think if she, along with Courtney, were okay with releasing it, that's the only opinion I care about.
The Rolling Stone article with Frances is really worth reading. She said her main goal was to dispel the myth behind Kurt Cobain. Show that he was just a human being. I think it succeeded in that regard. I hope today's teenagers who buy Nirvana shirts at Hot Topic watch it.
I also couldn't help but think about Eddie Vedder's situation growing up. While not exactly the same, there were enough similarities to think that Eddie could have gone down the same road. They both found music, which elevated them. While it ended up saving Eddie, it eventually killed Kurt.
Sometimes when I see him drinking 3 bottles of wine on an evening during the concert I wonder if he is an alcoholic or he has a bottle of juice.. It hurts me when I see him getting drunk at the concerts.. he still needs the booze to perform. Shamefully.. he has his kids watching him drinking on stage. You could imagine nothing is written or post about it because it seems he manage it well....
| Pinkpop 1992 *BEST EVER* | Rotterdam 1993 | Amsterdam 1996 | Pinkpop 2000 | Arnhem 2006 | Nijmegen 2007 | Rotterdam 2009 | Nijmegen 2010 | Amsterdam I + II 2012 ** | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2012 First European Concert *EPIC*| Amsterdam I + II 2014 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2016 night I | Amsterdam I + II 2018 | Amsterdam I -> Canceled + II 2022 *EPIC
You guys should read the buzz Osbourne interview he did about the review he gave about this documentary.
King Buzzo is an absolute asshole. not just for what he says about the film, but everything he says about anyone around that scene. he acts like he's the only "geniune" person from that era, and that everyone else is full of shit and talentless and sell outs.
he comes off as a jealous and bitter piece of shit.
Like the Melvins are anywhere near the fame of the Grunge scene... _O-
| Pinkpop 1992 *BEST EVER* | Rotterdam 1993 | Amsterdam 1996 | Pinkpop 2000 | Arnhem 2006 | Nijmegen 2007 | Rotterdam 2009 | Nijmegen 2010 | Amsterdam I + II 2012 ** | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2012 First European Concert *EPIC*| Amsterdam I + II 2014 | Amsterdam Eddie Vedder Solo 2016 night I | Amsterdam I + II 2018 | Amsterdam I -> Canceled + II 2022 *EPIC
Eventually purchased and was pleasantly suprised, but have to say I'm looking forward to 'soaked in bleach' more, question marks over his death can't be ignored.
Going to give it a try. I know I've been adamant in prior posts about never wanting to see it. I think I need some long overdue closure on Cobain & Nirvana. I was 16 when he suicided & I never really processed it until I read the Cross book in 2001. It opened up a lot of emotions and upset for me after I read it. Probably spent a month listening to everything Nirvana, worked at a record store at the time and recall special ordering any single, import I could get my hands on. Just digested and appreciated what the music was. After that I felt like I could say goodbye, but all the movies, books & new Nirvana releases that came and still come felt like overkill & it pissed me off, so kneejerk reaction was to be like 'fuck this new stuff, what's done is done, what's said has been said'.
I didn't find it hard to watch. I am pretty much totally disgusted by Kurt and Courtney's behaviour, and i disliked them both even more than i already did after watching, but it didn't make me squirm. I always thought Cobain was kind of a miserable jerk (which is why I was never a really big Nirvana fan) and frankly, this movie just confirmed it IMO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I didn't find it hard to watch. I am pretty much totally disgusted by Kurt and Courtney's behaviour, and i disliked them both even more than i already did after watching, but it didn't make me squirm. I always thought Cobain was kind of a miserable jerk (which is why I was never a really big Nirvana fan) and frankly, this movie just confirmed it IMO.
Good to know. I never idolized Kurt or the band. Big fan of the music though. His suicide was something I didn't understand. Thus beginning a profound interest in human behaviour that took me through school & eventually to my career. At 16 there was no way for me to comprehend such intense human suffering - call it a sheltered middle class upbringing - until I started working with addicts & mental health, meeting a few people who only wanted death & nothing more did I start to understand all the complexities involved.
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2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
He was definitely a bright, talented, vivacious, caring kid and then his world was shattered by that divorce and the embrassment and shame that brought to him. That was definitely life changing for him.
The footage of him and Courtney living together after they were married was stunning, they were totally high out of their minds during alot of that footage. I too thought that one scene was uncomfortable where Kurt was breaking that guitar and Courtney hanging on to him. Sad to see the haircut scene but you can tell Kurt would have been a good dad if not for the massive drug problem. He seemed to be entertained by childish things and would be able to be entertained and be entertained with Frances wholeheartedly.
Hilarious scenes ridiculing the media with Frances in the camera using a kid voice as well as mouthing the words to the fan letters to Sassy that Courtney was reading
2003 ~ Toronto
2005 ~ London, Toronto
2006 ~ Toronto
2008 ~ Hartford, Mansfied I,
2009 ~ Toronto, Chicago I, Chicago II
2010 ~ Cleveland, Buffalo
2011 ~ Toronto I, Toronto II, Ottawa, Hamilton
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
A lot has already been mentioned on this thread, but the trippy animations they somehow did on his artwork (I assume it was all his) was incredible. The production value of this movie alone make it worth a watch/purchase.
Other highlights...the early shows, the animation (some of which were 'dubbed' over actual recordings), and the happy parts in his life where he smiled and enjoyed Frances (while not completely stoned).
The lowlights (hard to watch)...obviously his decay and the scenes where he's loaded out of his mind with Frances around. We're not talking being high on some grass here...but the hardcore shit.
And then there is Courtney. Not sure what to say here. You can question if she's either pretty hard up for additional money/exposure, or you could say she's courageous for allowing this to surface. I mean, how much more personal can you get??? Did she take it too far? Perhaps. But if Frances was okay with it, so be it.
As far as some posts saying Nirvana is dated. Totally disagree. Nirvana will always be relevant as long as there are youths who are having a hard time fitting into society. And even at 42 years old, all of their music still strikes a chord with me.
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2021 (3) - Dana Point I, II & III; 2022 (3) - San Diego & Los Angeles I & II; 2025 - Southern U.S. Tour Please!
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
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Missoula 12
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St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Heck, I still struggle to fit in with society and feel down a lot so until I find the light Nirvana will be my light.
Two other thoughts since my last post.
#1 The interview KC did with Rolling Stone with the cover "Success doesn't suck" -- it was really interesting to HEAR his voice for parts of it. He sounded really fucked up in that interview, which is not how I heard his voice when I only had access to the article; HEARING him changes that whole interview for me but sadly makes more sense now. He was clearly in a high/manic state not on solid footing as I pictured him; that interview always confused me given how happy he seemed and the proximity to his suicide.
#2 To some degree from that same interview, he talks about not having any more new songs. One of the shames of all this is the larger role Dave Grohl could have had in Nirvana.
Imagine Kurt Cobain and Dave Grohl as an actual song writing duo. Kurt would have probably pushed Dave to be less predictable and Dave would have pulled Kurt to be more accessible. The combo could have been sonic fucking heaven--our very own Lennon and McCartney for the post-punk era.
She is not telling the full story.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Even Kurt & Stipe would've been fantastic.
Kurt had to much material that could've made another album, as those songs on With The Lights Out box set show. Some gems there.
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/42827/Montage-of-Heck-gets-DVD-release-with-a-stack-of-bonus-material
I am not an over the top Nirvana fan but absolutely love particular songs,especially MTV unplugged one of the best acoustic albums ever done,,that being said I don't think I would watch it again ,I am torn between feeling so sorry for what I think was a tortured lost soul best part of his life.Kurt was definitely a talent and found expression through his music but I gathered from the film Kurt was on the road to his fate if he had of been a plumber ,doctor or fisherman,obviously the drugs would maybe not have been as prevalent as the in the music scene but they would have found Kurt or be it Kurt find them
I think he loved Courtney and the film betrayed this but I don't know if it was the gear or the love
All in all it is a real heartbreaker and I couldn't help thinking during and even till now Eddie was in a similar place TEN,V'S and VITALOGY days also expressed this through his lyrics ,he turned that and has given us nearly 25 yrs of brilliant music,sadly Kurt isn't doing the same
I have lead a pretty tortured life at times and I think great musician's that have the ability to express it through song ie EDDIE/PJ and Kurt /NIRVANA save the souls of thousands,shame Mr Cobain didn't see a little more of that side but he walked in his shoes,we can only make assumptions on what we see and if that DVD is an insight fck me ,KING OF A LONELY WORLD
Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
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he comes off as a jealous and bitter piece of shit.
www.headstonesband.com
but buzzo talks shit about EVERYBODY. Dave, Krist, Kurt (who he was supposedly good friends with), mudhoney, pearl jam, billy corgan, soundgarden, andrew wood, everyone. he just seems like a completely miserable person.
www.headstonesband.com
1. how long did the love he had and relationship they have actually make his life better, so in some ways she was maybe the only positive thing he had in his life for a time. Lets not put it all in her lap. Did she actually prolong his life....I know based on what they showed she sort of got him on the Heroin thing....but beyond that
2. Kurt was a grown man, addict, mentally ill or not, he made his choices, not Courtney
3. it is really easy to judge those two based on how they acted while she was pregnant, after Francis was born, etc.....I find it hard not to do it right now, but the only person with right to judge them is Francis.
this movie was like a train wreck after a while, I could not believe what I saw in some scenes...it seems the support structure for both Kurt and Courtney failed, or they completely ignored it (probably this) This is a real hard watch
I think my favorite part was the alternate views of unplugged and the "Where did you sleep last night" right after the Courtney cheating stuff......it made the performance so incredibly more meaningful and powerful. It seemed the guys in the band knew, if you look on their faces, they seemed totally entranced by his raw, emotion laden, performance.
I don't think I like Kurt/Nirvana any more or less after the video, but his writing makes much more sense than it ever did. I wonder what things would be like if he had not died, where they would have gone personally and musically. How that would have caused a sea change to the music industry. I also noticed(not like this is some revelation fro you sorry) how alike him and Ed were in the whole fandom craze and band blowing up too fast thing, it is so sad they never got to just be guys and talk about it, how maybe they could have helped each other immensely. This story is certainly a rock cliche tragedy.
Will the record companies step up even and offer support to these bands? It seems like they could be more helpful in helping them cope with the success/touring. Instead of treating their bands like whores and pimping them out for every cent, maybe show a human side and give a shit about them....maybe then artists wouldn't be leaving your labels like rats on a sinking ship.
okay there are my 4 cents
It hurts me when I see him getting drunk at the concerts.. he still needs the booze to perform.
Shamefully.. he has his kids watching him drinking on stage.
You could imagine nothing is written or post about it because it seems he manage it well....
That segment made me squirm.
That scene aside, the whole flick was tough to watch.