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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,596
    badbrains said:

    Since when is Dershowitz credible in anything?

    There does seem to be a little "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" in play with him.

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  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    JimmyV said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    JimmyV said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.

    Without the riots, would this have happened??

    I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.

    Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.
    Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.

    They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...
    they waited for the autopsy results. why can't you comprehend that? it had zero to do with the riots.

    Actually, BSL isn't alone in his thinking here... Harvard Law Prof. Alan Dershowitz agrees.

    "Criminal charges filed Friday against six Baltimore police officers in the death of Freddie Gray were based on "politics and crowd control," not justice, renowned civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz tells Newsmax TV.

    "This is a very sad day for justice . . . Today had nothing to do with justice. Today was crowd control. Everything was motivated by a threat of riots and a desire to prevent riots," Dershowitz said on "The Steve Malzberg Show."

    On another note, nothing surprising here.
    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7190262
    I agree with Dershowitz here. BSL too if this is what she was trying to say, but it isn't how I read her posts. My take was that she was crediting the rioters with bringing these charges and seeing justice done, whereas Dershowitz is saying the opposite, that justice wasn't done and these charges are just political performance art.
    BSL wasn't saying quite the same thing, but in both cases, the motivation to action was the violent protest.
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  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    I meant that the city of Baltimore could no longer ignore the problem when there is deviant upheaval in the form of destroying neighborhoods. They could ignore it before then, which they did. I am not crediting the rioters for bringing charges, however, if they didn't riot and cause a national uproar? Who knows what would have (and have not) happened.

    I do think that these charges could very well be political performance art as the outcome of the national attention.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Why are the police mobilizing in Baltimore again? We're there more riots?
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/freddie-gray-grand-jury-indicts-6-officers-in-police-custody-death-1.3082790

    Freddie Gray: Grand jury indicts 6 officers in police-custody death
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,596
    Is there a working theory on what specifically led to this man's death? Did they beat him? Slam him around in the truck? Something else? None of the above?
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    Here's my theory having heard the young woman who is suing the Baltimore police for the rough ride she endured and what I have heard and read from various news sources. Whether what I posit is what happened, I don't know and I think we may never know exactly what happened other than his spinal cord was nearly completely severed just below his head.

    After being arrested and placed in the van and while on the ride to pick up the other arrestee, he was actively complaining, yelling kicking the metal panel in front of him, etc. maybe the cops gave him a rough ride to quiet him down. They pick up the other arrestee and put him in the van on the other side of the divider. He continues to loudly protest, screaming and yelling and kicking the divider. Maybe the cops give him some more rough ride and he doesn't chill out. At some point the cops stop and put leg shackles on him and lay him on the floor on his side of the divider. He continues to protest so the cops speed up and hit the brakes. He slides forward along the floor and hits his head with enough force on the partition that separates the driving/passenger cab from the detainee area. He hits with such force that his spinal cord is nearly severed and he has the imprint of a bolt from the partition on his head. The force exerted and the injury is typical of suicide by jumping victims or car crash victims as that is the type of force to nearly sever your spinal cord. I heard that his spinal cord was 80% severed.

    Did they intend to kill him? Probably not. Was it a wanton disregard for a human life and reckless endangerment? Probably. Will a jury convict them? Remains to be seen.

    I think the grand jury indictment may provide a high level version of events with enough evidence to have the grand jury indict. That information may or may not be public. I'm not sure if it's sealed and if it is, you won't hear the evidence until trial. If it's unsealed, it should be available and reported on.

    Again, just my theory based on various news sources. Plausible? Sure. What actually happened? Will we ever know the truth?
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,005
    badbrains said:

    Since when is Dershowitz credible in anything?

    never. he was on oj's defense team, and he is the biggest israel apologist on the planet.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,596
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Here's my theory having heard the young woman who is suing the Baltimore police for the rough ride she endured and what I have heard and read from various news sources. Whether what I posit is what happened, I don't know and I think we may never know exactly what happened other than his spinal cord was nearly completely severed just below his head.

    After being arrested and placed in the van and while on the ride to pick up the other arrestee, he was actively complaining, yelling kicking the metal panel in front of him, etc. maybe the cops gave him a rough ride to quiet him down. They pick up the other arrestee and put him in the van on the other side of the divider. He continues to loudly protest, screaming and yelling and kicking the divider. Maybe the cops give him some more rough ride and he doesn't chill out. At some point the cops stop and put leg shackles on him and lay him on the floor on his side of the divider. He continues to protest so the cops speed up and hit the brakes. He slides forward along the floor and hits his head with enough force on the partition that separates the driving/passenger cab from the detainee area. He hits with such force that his spinal cord is nearly severed and he has the imprint of a bolt from the partition on his head. The force exerted and the injury is typical of suicide by jumping victims or car crash victims as that is the type of force to nearly sever your spinal cord. I heard that his spinal cord was 80% severed.

    Did they intend to kill him? Probably not. Was it a wanton disregard for a human life and reckless endangerment? Probably. Will a jury convict them? Remains to be seen.

    I think the grand jury indictment may provide a high level version of events with enough evidence to have the grand jury indict. That information may or may not be public. I'm not sure if it's sealed and if it is, you won't hear the evidence until trial. If it's unsealed, it should be available and reported on.

    Again, just my theory based on various news sources. Plausible? Sure. What actually happened? Will we ever know the truth?

    That is plausible. Perhaps even probable. What concerns me in this case is that it isn't clear what the prosecutor's theory is. We've seen charges filed and indictments handed down...but what are the authorities saying these cops did? Maybe its out there somewhere and I just missed it. If not, I don't think I've ever seen a case like this before.

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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    so crime and even murder is way up in Baltimore since the police have scaled back and are no longer arresting or 'harrassing' (their term not mine) the so-called thugs (and yes that is what they are who are committing these types of violent crimes) since the riots. of course now those who complained about the police efforts before the riots are now complaining because the police aren't doing enough. be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    badbrains said:

    Since when is Dershowitz credible in anything?

    never. he was on oj's defense team, and he is the biggest israel apologist on the planet.
    If people only knew what his law firm did to his own fellow Jewish people who sued the nazis. I've read some crazy stories about how his law firm was raping millions of dollars while the aushowitz survivors were getting thousands of dollars for all the suffering they endured.
  • otter
    otter Posts: 772
    The 6 people in jail are political prisoners.
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