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I still don't know what the initial arrest was for. I'm sure it will come up in trial. But if there's weak testimony from witnesses, grainy video evidence, and unreliable witnesses then why wouldn't the cops stick together on one story?WhatYouTaughtMe said:
My take is they are charging him for stopping the vehicle and checking on him multiple times without providing him medical attention. Yes they need some kind of testimony from the officers or the other prisoner to prove it. Maybe they weren't slamming him around the back of the van. I'm sure the prosecutor has much more info than I, hence the charges. It will be interesting to see how solid the case is. I hope they wouldn't bring a weak case if these guys didn't do what they are accused of. The resulting not guilty verdicts would make this last week look minor.Last-12-Exit said:As much as I hate Cnn's Sonny Hostin, she makes a good point. In order to prove that the driver killed gray by driving carelessly, she will almost have to have testimony from one of the other officers. How can they prove otherwise?
There's no way any of those 5 other officers turn on the driver is there??? Even to save their own ass.
My guess the FOP lawyer will do everything he can to have them maintain the same story. From what he said today, he will be attacking protocol. That these cops followed protocol and the guy died. Which wouldn't necessarily mean acquittal across the board. But could definitely lead to lesser convictions.
Will this trial be individually tried or will it be all at ince?0 -
So, am I missing something here? The bail for a kid smashing a police car in a riot is $500,000 and the bail for the cops charged in the death of Gray is between $250,000 and $350,000. How does that make any kind of sense?
Source
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/30/baltimore-rioters-parents-500000-bail-allen-bullock
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/6-baltimore-police-charged-in-freddie-gray-death-released-on-bail-1.30572480 -
The lower crime rate very likely has nothing to do with the high rate of incarceration for non-violent crimes in the US. Crime rates are down over virtually the whole world; at least in the developed areas, from Asia to Europe. The American penal system can't take any of the credit for this, and should get a lot of the blame for a whole host of social ills.pjhawks said:while i agree that lots of people are in prison for what should be minor drug offenses the fact is crime as a whole in this country is lower than it ever has been. i don't think that's a coincidence.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
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Sounds about right.dignin said:So, am I missing something here? The bail for a kid smashing a police car in a riot is $500,000 and the bail for the cops charged in the death of Gray is between $250,000 and $350,000. How does that make any kind of sense?
Source
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/30/baltimore-rioters-parents-500000-bail-allen-bullock
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/6-baltimore-police-charged-in-freddie-gray-death-released-on-bail-1.3057248Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Disgusting. The guy had his hands up, no resistance. Totally disgusting.badbrains said:How about k-9 brutality
http://dudecomedy.com/police-k9-bites-suspects-face-and-wont-let-go-graphic/
Look who leads the pack in incarceration rate percentage. What does that tell us?oftenreading said:
The lower crime rate very likely has nothing to do with the high rate of incarceration for non-violent crimes in the US. Crime rates are down over virtually the whole world; at least in the developed areas, from Asia to Europe. The American penal system can't take any of the credit for this, and should get a lot of the blame for a whole host of social ills.pjhawks said:while i agree that lots of people are in prison for what should be minor drug offenses the fact is crime as a whole in this country is lower than it ever has been. i don't think that's a coincidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#/media/File:Prisoner_population_rate_world_map.svg
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Could it be that Gray was injured during the initial arrest ...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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Absolutely could have. Something doesn't add up here. I've been looking around this morning for some statement from the prosecutor detailing how Gray suffered his injuries. The officers have been charged so there must be a theory and evidence to back it up. Yet everything I read focuses on the legality/illegality of the arrest and the failure of the officers to buckle him into the van. Nothing discussed HOW his spine became severed and his voice box crushed. Neither of those injuries just happen. Something (someone) caused them. Very strange.josevolution said:Could it be that Gray was injured during the initial arrest ...
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Yeah I believe something happened to him during the initial arrest if you look at the video his feet are dragging like he could not move them cause the video starts at the point of him on the ground and officers on top of him ...JimmyV said:
Absolutely could have. Something doesn't add up here. I've been looking around this morning for some statement from the prosecutor detailing how Gray suffered his injuries. The officers have been charged so there must be a theory and evidence to back it up. Yet everything I read focuses on the legality/illegality of the arrest and the failure of the officers to buckle him into the van. Nothing discussed HOW his spine became severed and his voice box crushed. Neither of those injuries just happen. Something (someone) caused them. Very strange.josevolution said:Could it be that Gray was injured during the initial arrest ...
jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
True Jose, his feet were dragging and he was screaming in some serious pain. I have a feeling we won't know the exact truth for a few years when one of these officers gets a big fat check from somebody to tell all.josevolution said:
Yeah I believe something happened to him during the initial arrest if you look at the video his feet are dragging like he could not move them cause the video starts at the point of him on the ground and officers on top of him ...JimmyV said:
Absolutely could have. Something doesn't add up here. I've been looking around this morning for some statement from the prosecutor detailing how Gray suffered his injuries. The officers have been charged so there must be a theory and evidence to back it up. Yet everything I read focuses on the legality/illegality of the arrest and the failure of the officers to buckle him into the van. Nothing discussed HOW his spine became severed and his voice box crushed. Neither of those injuries just happen. Something (someone) caused them. Very strange.josevolution said:Could it be that Gray was injured during the initial arrest ...
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I usually shy away from the videos and just watched this one for the first time. Does the guy recording say something about tasing Gray? That might explain why he was having trouble walking. And it does kinda look like he stands up on his own right before going into the van.
https://youtu.be/7YV0EtkWyno ___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??Post edited by backseatLover12 on0 -
It looks to me like he stands kn his own when he's getting into the van.0
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Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...JimmyV said:
Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??0 -
I'm troubled that we don't know what they are accused of doing. Not the charges - we know what those are. I mean how and what. Did they beat him? Slam him around the van? Something happened to this guy...what was it? These charges came in so quick but aside from not following procedure and maybe negligence I'm not sure what the prosecution's theory is. Can't recall another case like that.backseatLover12 said:
They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...JimmyV said:
Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
they waited for the autopsy results. why can't you comprehend that? it had zero to do with the riots.backseatLover12 said:
They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...JimmyV said:
Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??
Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
Actually, BSL isn't alone in his thinking here... Harvard Law Prof. Alan Dershowitz agrees.HughFreakingDillon said:
they waited for the autopsy results. why can't you comprehend that? it had zero to do with the riots.backseatLover12 said:
They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...JimmyV said:
Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??
"Criminal charges filed Friday against six Baltimore police officers in the death of Freddie Gray were based on "politics and crowd control," not justice, renowned civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz tells Newsmax TV.
"This is a very sad day for justice . . . Today had nothing to do with justice. Today was crowd control. Everything was motivated by a threat of riots and a desire to prevent riots," Dershowitz said on "The Steve Malzberg Show."
On another note, nothing surprising here.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7190262Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
I agree with Dershowitz here. BSL too if this is what she was trying to say, but it isn't how I read her posts. My take was that she was crediting the rioters with bringing these charges and seeing justice done, whereas Dershowitz is saying the opposite, that justice wasn't done and these charges are just political performance art.rgambs said:
Actually, BSL isn't alone in his thinking here... Harvard Law Prof. Alan Dershowitz agrees.HughFreakingDillon said:
they waited for the autopsy results. why can't you comprehend that? it had zero to do with the riots.backseatLover12 said:
They did come in quickly. What was the mayor doing during the peaceful protests? She sure had time, the city had time. The police had time, since they certainly weren't coming forward making any statements. But when Baltimore was forced into the spotlight with riots? Suddenly, something had to be done. There was no more of the officials sleeping regarding the story. Sure, if there's no hard evidence, it will reflect poorly on the prosecutor. But we'll see...JimmyV said:
Maybe. These charges came in quickly, so we hope the evidence is there to support them. The possibility exists that they were filed to help ease tensions and end the protests. If there isn't any hard evidence this will reflect poorly on the prosecutor.backseatLover12 said:
Right. But if it wasn't for the urgency of the riots, who knows if they pursued real answers to begin with. The police and the rest of the country ignored the peaceful protests. The riots forced the world to look at Baltimore, who knows if there was not the demand for attention, the Gray case may have been swept under the rug.JimmyV said:
I hope the prosecutor brought these charges because the evidence warranted it, not because of the riots. Prosecuting because of public pressure isn't how the system is supposed to work any more than police killing a young man in their custody is.backseatLover12 said:Interesting that the riots, as bad as they were, caused the nation to look at Baltimore, which led to the charging of the 6 cops in the Freddie Gray death.
Without the riots, would this have happened??
"Criminal charges filed Friday against six Baltimore police officers in the death of Freddie Gray were based on "politics and crowd control," not justice, renowned civil rights lawyer Alan Dershowitz tells Newsmax TV.
"This is a very sad day for justice . . . Today had nothing to do with justice. Today was crowd control. Everything was motivated by a threat of riots and a desire to prevent riots," Dershowitz said on "The Steve Malzberg Show."
On another note, nothing surprising here.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7190262
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"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Since when is Dershowitz credible in anything?0
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