Michael Moore proving once again...

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  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    I posed a question in my reply above, but since Michael Moore can't answer, I'm curious as to what those who despise Chris Kyle in here feel. Is he any more or less a "coward" than those hiding in the shadows setting off roadside bombs, or those who use women and children to kill Americans?

    It's painfully obvious that those who think he was a coward have no fucking clue what else he did. Sniping was only one component of his service during those tours, it just happened to be he was very good at it, so it gets the most attention. He also had no problems running point going door-to-door in shit holes that were laden with insurgents. Ya...no thanks.

    As he states multiple times in his book...he doesn't support nor necessarily condemn being in Iraq. His job...as he saw it...was to serve his country when called and protect the men he was fighting with...those that volunteered to be put into harms way. And for any of you who think you can just say "fuck it...I refuse to fight" that is much easier said than done when you have the luxury of not facing that situation.
  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    And as a side note...I actually like the work Michael Moore does. I've watched all of his docs multiple times and I don't know that there's one I don't really like. I just happen to disagree with him on this topic is all.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,480
    as against war as I am, I had never before considered a sniper as a coward. he's just there doing his job. he is taking out the enemy by any means necessary. I mean, as long as he isn't taking out civilians or kids, then since when is there rules to war? is there a standard of ethics in combat that you have to be visible to your enemy to kill them? what makes a sniper any different than a guy lobbing a grenade?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,480
    also, keep in mind that he is speaking from an incredibly biased place. his uncle was killed by one. so of course he's going to say that.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited January 2015
    After reading a little about Chris Kyle, I admit now that I spoke too fast when I said he was a coward. However, as someone else said earlier, "War is ugly". There is no draft, there's no one joining the military against their own will. You sign up for it. I choose to never be a part of that. That's the difference. I will never choose to use a deadly weapon as a part of my job. Chris did. From the link I posted above.
    "There's an inaccurate stereotype of these guys, that they love war," says Taya. "I can promise you, they don't love war. But they do love that fight for what they would say is justice for each other."

    They may not love war, but they certainly didn't join the military to spread peace.If soldiers feel that justice includes killing another being, that, I can assure anyone, that the word justice, in my vocabulary, will never involve killing another man. And that's what makes him and me different. Especially on a day of peace like today, MLK,Jr. Day.
    Post edited by backseatLover12 on
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    Last-12-Exit wrote: »
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    brianlux wrote: »
    Well, I guess I'm gonna get shit on for saying this, but typical of America, we celebrate ace killers more than peacemakers.

    OK, so fuck me for saying that. I'm sticking to it.

    I completely agree with you Brian. On a day we recognize a person for promoting peace and standing up to injustice, we get to discuss the heroism of killing for the sake of being on the "right" side. WTF?

    It's just a movie. Based on a person's account of what he went through.

    I'm not giving you shit Brian. I am guessing there are movies about peacemakers, I just can't think of any on the spot.

    Uh, it's a real story, not "just a movie".

    http://www.people.com/article/american-sniper-chris-kyle-story-behind-bradley-cooper-role

    Yes, it's a story based on a book written by that guy. I'm sure the number of kills is accurate, but it's hollywood, a lot of what is portrayed is not.

    I do not think a sniper is a coward. It's part of war. As ugly and horrendous as war is, I'd rather have the best snipers covering my back. It's war. What's the difference how you kill the other side? Are people that throw grenades cowards as well? Or use machine guns? Snipers save lives.

    On a side note, I thought the movie was excellent.
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    “War is only a cowardly escape from the problems of peace.” - Thoman Mann
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    Last-12-Exit wrote: »
    Snipers save lives.
    Don't kid yourself. Snipers kill.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,599
    edited January 2015
    I actually think it is this tweet that proves what an "asshat" Michael Moore is:



    Don't like snipers? Fine. Have problems with the film? Also fine. Just don't pretend you weren't referencing Chris Kyle with your earlier tweets. That may be factually correct but it is intellectually dishonest, and that is why Moore deserves much of the contempt so many of us feel for him. He is no better than Limbaugh.
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    Last-12-Exit wrote: »
    Snipers save lives.
    Don't kid yourself. Snipers kill.

    I'm not at all kidding myself. Of course they kill people. And for every person they kill, they save countless lives. That guy the sniper takes out could have went on to kill countless americans.
  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    I highly doubt the majority of soldiers joined the military because of the love of fighting and the prospect killing human beings. Even Kyle stated in his book his priorities were God, Country and Family...in that order. Every soldier I know, and I know A LOT of them, joined with a desire to serve and protect the country and/or to take advantage of military benefits (i.e. help with college, job security, etc.).

    If no one had the willingness to join, you would end up serving whether you wanted to or not..make no mistake about that. If people don't volunteer to serve, they will fill the ranks one way or the other. So have some respect for those that take it upon themselves to serve in your stead, risk their lives following orders so you dont have to, and leave you with the ability to protest their motivation and cowardly tendencies from the comfort of your keyboard.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,456
    wheres the popcorn smiley. anxiously awaits rgambs.
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Man there is just no end to marketing Hollywood films.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1410695/seth-rogen-shoots-down-american-sniper

    This film will cross the 1 billion mark before it leaves theatres.
    seth rogen movies will still bomb, he is a coat tailing ass
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    JimmyV wrote: »
    Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh: Twin demons of the left and the right.

    Yes Jimmy you got this dead on
  • Empty Glass
    Empty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329
    Being an army vet, I would certainly want some one on lookout to take out those that are looking to take me out. The only "cowards" are those that send our troops into war.
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

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  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    mickeyrat wrote: »
    anxiously awaits rgambs.
    qcJ5Ee0.gif

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Empty Glass wrote: »
    Being an army vet, I would certainly want some one on lookout to take out those that are looking to take me out. The only "cowards" are those that send our troops into war.

    I would hope we all agree on that Empty.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    cincybearcat wrote: »
    Oh please Brian, step off your pedestal. People have said far worse about others here, and I'm not addressing a single poster here.

    Good call, cincy. Sorry.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo were cowards
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    backseatLover12 wrote: »
    cincybearcat wrote: »
    Oh please Brian, step off your pedestal. People have said far worse about others here, and I'm not addressing a single poster here.

    Way to have respect for a day observed nationally to honor a man to have made a difference in the name of PEACE and rights for everyone. THAT'S what Brian is talking about. He's on no pedestal, you must be merely in need to point a finger somewhere, and you were told how it is.

    I have to cop to this one, bsL12, cincy's call was good. It is true that others -probably all of us at one point- have said worse.

    That said, I won't renege on anything else I've said here. It is so U.S. of us to glorify someone who sits in a tree (or whatever) and picks off people. I suppose I am guilty of reacting a bit too strongly... maybe... on this issue but six decades of watching the U.S. become more and more a warring nation I just can't stomach the guts 'n gory glory hallefuckinlujah posturing that defines so much of what we have become as a nation. And I am speaking in general terms here. I don't mean to single any one out here. It's the combined overall effect of a bloodthirsty, aggressive murderous position we have take as a whole that I rage against.

    As for Michael Moore, yeah it's easy to criticize someone in the lime light and I'm sure he has his faults but he has the guts to speak his mind on issues that so many others back off from. It's a wonder he's still alive. I say, good for him and thanks for the courage to speak out. That is what this is supposed to be all about, right? Courage.


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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