Father requests sheriff to supervise spanking of daughter-and he does
Comments
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I am in favor of corporal punishment admistered properly. Of course I have my own definition of proper, which pretty much lines up with the way my parents handled it. A few quick rules.
1. Only used for serious offenses. Not for talking back or minor annoyances. You spank a child when they do something for which life will spank them as adults.
2. Never done when angry. First you talk to the child and give yourself time to calm down if you are upset. You explain what and why was wrong wiht their behavior and why physical correction is necessary, and then administer.
3. No wholesale whoopass. You don't hit your kids in the face or crank on them as hard as you can, enough to hurt but not harm. swelling equals harm. Red marks do not.
4. Start young and end young, after 5 or 6 it probably won't do much good.
my wife and I always talked to our son like an adult and told him what could happen if...and today he is almost 21 and I'm very proud of him he has been a good kid with no real issues to deal with and we never used the soap treatment
) but my mom used on me once or twice )
Godfather.0 -
Alot of kids turn out fine without corporal punishment. My wife and her sister behaved without even needing the stern talks. When I was 4 my 6 year old neighbor who ruled the roost (always running around with candy in his mouth, only ate hotdogs and macaroni, determined his own schedule for play, sleep, eat... We all know kids who's parents let them misbehave like this) ran across the state highway as he was wont do, and was hit by a semi-truck. I am not blaming his parents for his tragic death, but my brother and I, as rowdy as we were, didn't go near the highway for fear of the worst whuppin we would get. There are real, concrete consequences in life, and children don't understand life well enough to picture them and imagine the impact of their choices. That's why I believe some children need more than a talkin to, because life is going to give them more than a talkin to.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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I find it hard to believe that this poor kid's life would have been improved by corporal punishment; sounds as if the parenting may have needed a general overhaul, but adding in hitting to the mix without changing the other areas would have just made it worse, while improving the parents' abilities to set boundaries and follow through would likely have made hitting irrelevant.Alot of kids turn out fine without corporal punishment. My wife and her sister behaved without even needing the stern talks. When I was 4 my 6 year old neighbor who ruled the roost (always running around with candy in his mouth, only ate hotdogs and macaroni, determined his own schedule for play, sleep, eat... We all know kids who's parents let them misbehave like this) ran across the state highway as he was wont do, and was hit by a semi-truck. I am not blaming his parents for his tragic death, but my brother and I, as rowdy as we were, didn't go near the highway for fear of the worst whuppin we would get. There are real, concrete consequences in life, and children don't understand life well enough to picture them and imagine the impact of their choices. That's why I believe some children need more than a talkin to, because life is going to give them more than a talkin to.
rgambs, you set out a list of conditions under which you would use corporal punishment. While you are likely correct that under those conditions it is less likely you'll do serious harm to your child and your relationship, I doubt you'll actually add anything positive or achieve anything that can't be achieved perfectly well without violence. And wouldn't it be a good rule of thumb to avoid violence if it isn't necessary?my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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I guess this is time for an "agree to disagree" position. I believe you have some life changes coming up, so time will tell whether your little bearded baby causes any changes in your opinionOftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.
By the way, I was also a big time tree climber of old, as was (is) my kid. I don't view that sort of exploration as inherently risky; in fact, I encourage it. A lack of knowledge about the world and one's own capabilities seems to me to be more risky. And yes, I have "been around thick skulled kids" (my brother, for example).my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.
but when referencing these "thick skulled kids", a general smack on the bum that "hurts but doesn't harm", is going to do pretty much nothing anyway, so why bother? a kid isn't going to be afraid enough of a small smack on the butt to make them stop their risky and fun behaviour, is it? only a "whuppin" would, which you have said you are against.
also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.
proof positive that violence begets violence.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.
As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.
First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
paulonious wrote: »also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.
proof positive that violence begets violence.
Is it coincidence or proof positive?
I think what I quoted is a bit unfair on your part. I never "got my ass beat" yet believe assholes who inflict harm on others should pay the price.
If that's considered harsh or over the top, so be it.0 -
paulonious wrote: »also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.
proof positive that violence begets violence.
Is it coincidence or proof positive?
I think what I quoted is a bit unfair on your part. I never "got my ass beat" yet believe assholes who inflict harm on others should pay the price.
If that's considered harsh or over the top, so be it.
to me violence begetting violence has been proven. but in this instance, it is only 3 or so people that I was referencing, which is an admittedly small pool to draw from. but I still stand by it.
I think those that inflict harm should pay the price as well. but what the price is, is subjective. I wasn't referring to you, as I don't know your stance on what you consider fitting punishments for criminals. but we can leave to that other threads.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.
As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.
First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods.
let's say little seven bills unpaid gets a swat on the ass, and then you see him running in traffic again. what next?
Post edited by HughFreakingDillon onBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Some are better at conflict resolution than others.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0
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I'll throw in another data point from my personal experience. I have raised 2 kids, now adults. I didn't spank them, or even yell at them. My son was a successful student, and competitive athlete through high school and is in college now. My daughter was a successful student, graduated college with honors and is now running a special education program in a middle school. Neither of these kids were hit. They were well behaved, and didn't get in trouble with school, police, etc... I always spoke to them as human beings, discussed actions and consequences, used other forms of punishment (removal of privileges, grounding, etc...). I allowed them to discuss things with me (can't stand parents who won't let their kids "talk back" which can be a euphemism for having a rational discussion).
Granted, hitting kids does teach them lessons. It teaches them fear rather than respect. It teaches them that violence is the solution to problems. It teaches them to hit others to get their point across.
A parent who is unable to discuss behavior with kids lacks reason, logic, patience, compassion, judgement, and self-control. I also question their understanding of love ("I love them, and want the best for them, that's why I beat them" rings like a domestic abuser to me). But hitters tend to rationalize their behavior, so I expect stories of successful beatings of kids will follow."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
I'll throw in another data point from my personal experience. I have raised 2 kids, now adults. I didn't spank them, or even yell at them. My son was a successful student, and competitive athlete through high school and is in college now. My daughter was a successful student, graduated college with honors and is now running a special education program in a middle school. Neither of these kids were hit. They were well behaved, and didn't get in trouble with school, police, etc... I always spoke to them as human beings, discussed actions and consequences, used other forms of punishment (removal of privileges, grounding, etc...). I allowed them to discuss things with me (can't stand parents who won't let their kids "talk back" which can be a euphemism for having a rational discussion).
Granted, hitting kids does teach them lessons. It teaches them fear rather than respect. It teaches them that violence is the solution to problems. It teaches them to hit others to get their point across.
A parent who is unable to discuss behavior with kids lacks reason, logic, patience, compassion, judgement, and self-control. I also question their understanding of love ("I love them, and want the best for them, that's why I beat them" rings like a domestic abuser to me). But hitters tend to rationalize their behavior, so I expect stories of successful beatings of kids will follow.
=D>By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I actually recall, after my last spanking, that I rebelled even further. it did nothing to teach me any lesson at all. all it did was make me hate my dad with a passion at the time. and it damaged the relationship at the time between my parents as well (my Mom was screaming at him while he was doing it). it was somewhat traumatic, in that I recall it to this day. it wasn't overly violent. just humiliating an unnecessary. in a twisted way I'm glad he did it, so I know without any doubt never to do that to my own kids.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
paulonious wrote: »Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.
As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.
First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods.
let's say little seven bills unpaid gets a swat on the ass, and then you see him running in traffic again. what next?
The swat on the ass isn't the go-to move here. Remember, I'm not for 'spanking'. I'm only making the case for a swat on the ass given the appropriate set of circumstances. It's only a 'tool' that parents might use at critical moments failing everything else.
It was a serious wrestling match to keep my daughter from running off sidewalks into bust traffic. We had numerous chats with her and my wife and we consistently reminded each other to be ultra-watchful. So, I practised 'heightened supervision' until she recognized the inherent danger of playing in the street.
I guess my experience speaks to 'no spanking'; however, parenting is a really tough thing to do and my personal experience may not necessarily work for every situation. It's simply not my place to tell another parent how to raise their child when serious abuse is not the issue.
With that said, I feel the odd swat on the ass is not necessarily going to damage a kid. If the tactic results in the correct behaviour after numerous other tactics have failed... then fair enough. It's really individual and case specific. There are a number of items that are far more damaging to a young child than a swat on the butt, yet seem to be accepted more readily without as much scorn: parents constantly arguing with each other or parents in a messy divorce have a far more profound effect on a developing child than a swat served to remind them that what they are doing cannot be tolerated.Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on"My brain's a good brain!"0 -
paulonious wrote: »Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.
but when referencing these "thick skulled kids", a general smack on the bum that "hurts but doesn't harm", is going to do pretty much nothing anyway, so why bother? a kid isn't going to be afraid enough of a small smack on the butt to make them stop their risky and fun behaviour, is it? only a "whuppin" would, which you have said you are against.
also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.
proof positive that violence begets violence.
Not really.
You have expressed that you were spanked as a child, yet those spankings confirmed to you that spanking was wrong and- more to what you were saying here- you have developed the disposition that sees criminals with a lighter view, while supporting lighter sentences and social justice.
So, a similar argument could be made that violence solves violence."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »paulonious wrote: »Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.
but when referencing these "thick skulled kids", a general smack on the bum that "hurts but doesn't harm", is going to do pretty much nothing anyway, so why bother? a kid isn't going to be afraid enough of a small smack on the butt to make them stop their risky and fun behaviour, is it? only a "whuppin" would, which you have said you are against.
also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.
proof positive that violence begets violence.
Not really.
You have expressed that you were spanked as a child, yet those spankings confirmed to you that spanking was wrong and- more to what you were saying here- you have developed the disposition that sees criminals with a lighter view, while supporting lighter sentences and social justice.
So, a similar argument could be made that violence solves violence.
no. I was spanked a total of I think 3 times in a decade. I was referring to those who had mentioned they were "repeatedly whupped" as a kid.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »paulonious wrote: »Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.
As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.
First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods.
let's say little seven bills unpaid gets a swat on the ass, and then you see him running in traffic again. what next?
The swat on the ass isn't the go-to move here. Remember, I'm not for 'spanking'. I'm only making the case for a swat on the ass given the appropriate set of circumstances. It's only a 'tool' that parents might use at critical moments failing everything else.
It was a serious wrestling match to keep my daughter from running off sidewalks into bust traffic. We had numerous chats with her and my wife and we consistently reminded each other to be ultra-watchful. So, I practised 'heightened supervision' until she recognized the inherent danger of playing in the street.
I guess my experience speaks to 'no spanking'; however, parenting is a really tough thing to do and my personal experience may not necessarily work for every situation. It's simply not my place to tell another parent how to raise their child when serious abuse is not the issue.
With that said, I feel the odd swat on the ass is not necessarily going to damage a kid. If the tactic results in the correct behaviour after numerous other tactics have failed... then fair enough. It's really individual and case specific. There are a number of items that are far more damaging to a young child than a swat on the butt, yet seem to be accepted more readily without as much scorn: parents constantly arguing with each other or parents in a messy divorce have a far more profound effect on a developing child than a swat served to remind them that what they are doing cannot be tolerated.
I can site the exact same example of my oldest daughter and her lack of awareness when it comes to walking into traffic. did I spank her? nope. I watched like a hawk (as you did yours) and have still not allowed her to go out on her own until she can prove that she can remember to be aware. she is 8. she knows that her friends this summer are going to want to head out on their own, and she knows that if she doesn't work on it, she will not be allowed to go unsupervised. so, she is improving, without physical "interference".
of course there are way more extreme examples of bad behaviour that would make it more difficult to deal with; of course. my nephew is one of them. and I've seen my sister swat him on the butt, and I still don't agree with it. it hasn't improved the behaviour. so what is really the point? I don't see kids altering their behaviours based on the threat of a beating; they merely do more to stop from getting caught, and/or they just become fearful before the punishment is administered.
I have also seen her inattention when it comes to him playing endless amounts of video games, watching tv, etc, so I agree with what someone said earlier; I think sometimes spanking can be a result of a bigger issue of lazy parenting. they let it get so far that they think the only thing that will shock the kid back to being good is a good smack. I say be a little more fucking involved and it won't have to come to that.
as a society it is absolutely our business to make sure that abuse does not happen in the home. it's a slippery slope from a little smack to an all out punch to the head, or to the kid becoming a bully, or whatever may be the result.
whether there are far more damaging things to do to a child is irrelevant. that's like someone saying, after being caught stealing, "well at least I didn't kill anyone". the lesser of many evils doesn't apply here.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Hypervigilance is great, and is the appropriate go to move at all times with children, but it isn't 100%. You aren't always around and you can't always be watching. Shouldn't we use all the tools in the box to keep our kids healthy and alive? Wouldn't everyone wish they had tried a swat on the bottom if they hadn't and their kid was involved in a tragedy?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Yeah, I got wacked with a wooden spoon on a semi-regular basis, and I'm pretty sure it did nothing to make me a better person.... of course, I'm positive that it did nothing to make me a worse person either. So I'm pretty neutral when it comes to spanking. Assuming we're talking about normal, appropriate spanking as opposed to beatings, I really don't care either way. Whatever the parents think is working.
As for the dad getting the sheriff to supervise... my first reaction was to think it's hilarious.
I doubt the kid feels like that though, lol.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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