Father requests sheriff to supervise spanking of daughter-and he does

HughFreakingDillon

now, I'm not familiar with the law in Florida and how beating your child with a paddle is not considered child abuse, but hey, it's Florida. Yes, I got the wooden spoon a couple times as a kid, but I honestly do NOT believe for one second that it altered my behaviour one bit. I think it's a stretch, to say the least, that if more kids got spanked that fewer would end up in jail. Give me a break.

http://cbc.ca/asithappens/features/2015/01/05/florida-sheriffs-deputy-supervises-spankings/

A Florida dad wants to spank his young daughter as a form of discipline. But, she challenges him -- claiming it's illegal for him to do so. So he calls the Okeechobee County Sheriff's office to confirm his legal right to corporal punishment of his child. The County Sheriff's office confirms he's within his rights and sends a Sheriff's deputy to witness -- and supervise -- the spanking.

Okeechobee County Undersheriff Noel Stephen describes what happened that day to As It Happens host Carol Off. He believes that there is a difference between child abuse and disciplining a child. He says the treatment of the 12 year-old girl followed state laws in Florida.

Stephen says the father used a paddle to spank his daughter but couldn't confirm how many times it was used.
He adds that in his 28-year career as a policeman, he has known of at least a dozen cases of parents calling the Sheriff and requesting spanking supervision.

Undersheriff Stephen says that if more kids got spankings fewer might end up in prison

HughFreakingDillon

that link should be
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/2015/01/05/florida-sheriffs-deputy-supervises-spankings/

not sure why PJ's website's new link feature doesn't work.

rgambs

I disagree with your assessment of corporal punishment. In life, many poor choices punish you in a serious way. Touch the stove, you get burned. Fail to look both ways, get killed by a car. Play in the river, drown...etc.

Children have to learn that there are real, tangible consequences in life, beyond dissapointing your peers or superiors. You learned that lesson whether you realized it or not.

HughFreakingDillon

disagree. I have never, nor will I ever, physically punish my daughters. all it taught me was that I was getting something I didn't deserve, and that it was an outlet for my dad's frustration and anger. nothing more. I actually felt worse about myself when my parents would sit me down calmly and tell me how disappointed they were in me than when I was hit or screamed at.

and those examples can't compare: touch the stove: does the stove get mad and CHOOSE to burn you? does the car flip out and CHOOSE to run over you? a very distinct difference. violence is not the answer. you do that where I live? child and family services visits you.

as a 40 year old father, I'm pretty sure I'm a little more qualified knowing what lessons I learned than someone on the internet. But thanks.

HughFreakingDillon

and I think there have been studies done that show links between parental physical punishment and emotional/behavioural problems and also leading into adult life. I'll have to look that up when I have time.

josevolution

paulonious wrote: »

disagree. I have never, nor will I ever, physically punish my daughters. all it taught me was that I was getting something I didn't deserve, and that it was an outlet for my dad's frustration and anger. nothing more. I actually felt worse about myself when my parents would sit me down calmly and tell me how disappointed they were in me than when I was hit or screamed at.

and those examples can't compare: touch the stove: does the stove get mad and CHOOSE to burn you? does the car flip out and CHOOSE to run over you? a very distinct difference. violence is not the answer. you do that where I live? child and family services visits you.

as a 40 year old father, I'm pretty sure I'm a little more qualified knowing what lessons I learned than someone on the internet. But thanks.

I agree, father here of two 18yr old girl 21yr old boy i never had to resort to a spanking like that at all maybe a swatt across their butts but never hard or with intent on hurting ....

callen

Dads a dick. What humiliation. Daughter will pay him back. Guess dad never listened to Chris Rock about everything he does is to keep his daughter off the pole. And for all you dads listen up.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mnWErHhPNc

rgambs

I don't think a 12 year old gains anything but embarrassment from a whuppin in front of the sheriff.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs wrote: »

I don't think a 12 year old gains anything but embarrassment from a whuppin in front of the sheriff.

A forever set of daddy issues at least, man hating hell on heels at worst.

brianlux

I grew up in the 50's when hard spanking and slapping etc. were not only allowed, but very common forms of punishment. I got my share and my folks were good people who thought they were doing the right thing. They would be different today. I knew kids back then who got it worse- one of the kids I knew got a leather belt across his bare ass and another got it with a heavy switch from a tree.

I had a teacher in 5th grade who whacked us across the hand with a thick rigid yardstick for doing things like speaking out of turn. Those whacks on the hand always created a lot of pain, redness and usually big welts. That same teacher used to give us what we called "the paint can treatment". If he was really pissed off at us, he took us outside and yelled at us while holding our shoulders and shaking us violently. That would really fuck with your head. He did that to one kid one day and behind the kid was a concrete pillar. He shook the kid so hard that the back of the kid's head hit the pillar and knocked him out- cold. The teacher was transferred to another school but was NOT fired.

I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever hit a kid. Fuck that. I mean, FUCK that.

oftenreading

There have been decades of research on the issue of the impact of corporal punishment as a form of discipline, and the outcomes are very consistent - corporal punishment can improve immediate behaviour (because the child is afraid of further punishment) but in the medium and long term leads to worse behaviour, particularly a higher rate of aggression toward others but also poorer ability to self-manage behaviour and less compliance with rules. Children who are hit tend to hit other children, both within and outside the family, and later on go on to higher rates of illegal behaviour.

Of course some will always stand up and say "I was spanked and it didn't do me any harm", much like people who say "my grandpa smoked and he lived to 90!". The evidence is pretty clear about the harms.

And as a parent I can also attest that it is perfectly possible to raise kids who are great citizens without hitting them, although at times when they are little you certainly feel like you'd like to hit something....

hedonist

I was spanked once by my dad - one time, one actual spank. It was humiliating but tougher knowing I'd let my parents down. After that, different ("normal") punishments, and talking. A lot of talking.

My husband has told me of the spanking he got from his mom when he ran into the street willy-nilly. It stuck with him and he never did that again.

We both are pretty well-adjusted people now, have/had good relationships with our parents.

I'm not a mother but if I were, doubt I could summon the will or ability to spank my child.

Soooo...where do folks stand on the old mouth-washed-out-with-soap routine?
:-D

chadwick

frigg a bunch of giving two shits
we were spanked, my brothers & i
sure it hurt some what
it did not stop us from doing what silly crazy bullshit we done
brothers fight
rough house
karate in the dark
axes & gun warfare
boxing jabs & bloody mugs
tree house & bunk bed battles

here comes the switch

stick it up your ass old man
so we cut his tree branch into about nine pieces
he drew back to swing
to come down & the switch fell apart
laughter, laughter & alot of it
he thought that was a riot

we were not ever abused
not once
our childhood was beyond wonderful

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I got spanked as a kid- many times. Every time I did, I knew exactly what I was getting spanked for. I also knew my parents loved me dearly. I didn't like getting spanked, but certainly don't harbour any ill will towards my parents for their method of discipline. The threat of my father tanning my behind kept me in line more than any heart-to-heart chats. Like most other young kids, I wasn't mature enough to truly understand an adult's perspective as much as I could 'cause and effect'.

Of course, as a child ages, spanking becomes useless.

I'm not an advocate for spanking. I never read the piece- the thread title says it all (it's ridiculous). However, I do feel we shouldn't be too judgmental of a parent exercising their parental responsibilities in a manner in which we don't approve of (such as a swat on the bum). Much worse, in my mind, is not caring at all, completely neglecting discipline, or not even being there to be a parent.

Anything other than a hand? In my mind... no good. An all-out assault? Poor. A swat on the butt on the rare occasion? Not a big deal.

oftenreading

rgambs wrote: »

I disagree with your assessment of corporal punishment. In life, many poor choices punish you in a serious way. Touch the stove, you get burned. Fail to look both ways, get killed by a car. Play in the river, drown...etc.

Children have to learn that there are real, tangible consequences in life, beyond dissapointing your peers or superiors. You learned that lesson whether you realized it or not.

So you are in favour of corporal punishment rgambs? I must admit that was not the position I was expecting from you, but life is full of surprises.

brianlux

hedonist wrote: »

I was spanked once by my dad - one time, one actual spank. It was humiliating but tougher knowing I'd let my parents down. After that, different ("normal") punishments, and talking. A lot of talking.

My husband has told me of the spanking he got from his mom when he ran into the street willy-nilly. It stuck with him and he never did that again.

We both are pretty well-adjusted people now, have/had good relationships with our parents.

I'm not a mother but if I were, doubt I could summon the will or ability to spank my child.

Soooo...where do folks stand on the old mouth-washed-out-with-soap routine?
:-D

Much to her credit, my mother never subjected me to this horror. Soooo, having heard about it and not experienced it, when I was around 9 or 10 I washed my own mouth out with dish soap. It was NASTY! Plus, when I breathed out a lot of bubbles went floating into the air!
:-\"

hedonist

Nice choice on the blowing fella, B!

As with spanking, the mouthwash - so to speak - happened just once. Can't remember what prompted it but goddamn, never went there again.

What was the impetus of your selfwash?

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading wrote: »

There have been decades of research on the issue of the impact of corporal punishment as a form of discipline, and the outcomes are very consistent - corporal punishment can improve immediate behaviour (because the child is afraid of further punishment) but in the medium and long term leads to worse behaviour, particularly a higher rate of aggression toward others but also poorer ability to self-manage behaviour and less compliance with rules. Children who are hit tend to hit other children, both within and outside the family, and later on go on to higher rates of illegal behaviour.

Of course some will always stand up and say "I was spanked and it didn't do me any harm", much like people who say "my grandpa smoked and he lived to 90!". The evidence is pretty clear about the harms.

And as a parent I can also attest that it is perfectly possible to raise kids who are great citizens without hitting them, although at times when they are little you certainly feel like you'd like to hit something....

Thank you for well thought out and intelligent (not to mention coherent) response.

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist wrote: »

I was spanked once by my dad - one time, one actual spank. It was humiliating but tougher knowing I'd let my parents down. After that, different ("normal") punishments, and talking. A lot of talking.

My husband has told me of the spanking he got from his mom when he ran into the street willy-nilly. It stuck with him and he never did that again.

We both are pretty well-adjusted people now, have/had good relationships with our parents.

I'm not a mother but if I were, doubt I could summon the will or ability to spank my child.

Soooo...where do folks stand on the old mouth-washed-out-with-soap routine?
:-D

it can actually sometimes be more about having the will NOT to get physical. It's rare that I get that angry, but it can get pretty tense sometimes.

rgambs

I am in favor of corporal punishment admistered properly. Of course I have my own definition of proper, which pretty much lines up with the way my parents handled it. A few quick rules.
1. Only used for serious offenses. Not for talking back or minor annoyances. You spank a child when they do something for which life will spank them as adults.
2. Never done when angry. First you talk to the child and give yourself time to calm down if you are upset. You explain what and why was wrong wiht their behavior and why physical correction is necessary, and then administer.
3. No wholesale whoopass. You don't hit your kids in the face or crank on them as hard as you can, enough to hurt but not harm. swelling equals harm. Red marks do not.
4. Start young and end young, after 5 or 6 it probably won't do much good.

Godfather.

I got my ass beat many times as a kid, had the welts and a bruse frome time to time to prove it.......come to think of it..it just pissed me off even more but it did teach me not to take shit from anybody, ahhhh lesson learned but I have never spanked or hit my kid it just seemed crazy for a grown man to smack a kid.

Godfather.

Godfather.

rgambs wrote: »

I am in favor of corporal punishment admistered properly. Of course I have my own definition of proper, which pretty much lines up with the way my parents handled it. A few quick rules.
1. Only used for serious offenses. Not for talking back or minor annoyances. You spank a child when they do something for which life will spank them as adults.
2. Never done when angry. First you talk to the child and give yourself time to calm down if you are upset. You explain what and why was wrong wiht their behavior and why physical correction is necessary, and then administer.
3. No wholesale whoopass. You don't hit your kids in the face or crank on them as hard as you can, enough to hurt but not harm. swelling equals harm. Red marks do not.
4. Start young and end young, after 5 or 6 it probably won't do much good.

my wife and I always talked to our son like an adult and told him what could happen if...and today he is almost 21 and I'm very proud of him he has been a good kid with no real issues to deal with and we never used the soap treatment ) but my mom used on me once or twice )

Godfather.

rgambs

Alot of kids turn out fine without corporal punishment. My wife and her sister behaved without even needing the stern talks. When I was 4 my 6 year old neighbor who ruled the roost (always running around with candy in his mouth, only ate hotdogs and macaroni, determined his own schedule for play, sleep, eat... We all know kids who's parents let them misbehave like this) ran across the state highway as he was wont do, and was hit by a semi-truck. I am not blaming his parents for his tragic death, but my brother and I, as rowdy as we were, didn't go near the highway for fear of the worst whuppin we would get. There are real, concrete consequences in life, and children don't understand life well enough to picture them and imagine the impact of their choices. That's why I believe some children need more than a talkin to, because life is going to give them more than a talkin to.

oftenreading

rgambs wrote: »

Alot of kids turn out fine without corporal punishment. My wife and her sister behaved without even needing the stern talks. When I was 4 my 6 year old neighbor who ruled the roost (always running around with candy in his mouth, only ate hotdogs and macaroni, determined his own schedule for play, sleep, eat... We all know kids who's parents let them misbehave like this) ran across the state highway as he was wont do, and was hit by a semi-truck. I am not blaming his parents for his tragic death, but my brother and I, as rowdy as we were, didn't go near the highway for fear of the worst whuppin we would get. There are real, concrete consequences in life, and children don't understand life well enough to picture them and imagine the impact of their choices. That's why I believe some children need more than a talkin to, because life is going to give them more than a talkin to.

I find it hard to believe that this poor kid's life would have been improved by corporal punishment; sounds as if the parenting may have needed a general overhaul, but adding in hitting to the mix without changing the other areas would have just made it worse, while improving the parents' abilities to set boundaries and follow through would likely have made hitting irrelevant.

rgambs, you set out a list of conditions under which you would use corporal punishment. While you are likely correct that under those conditions it is less likely you'll do serious harm to your child and your relationship, I doubt you'll actually add anything positive or achieve anything that can't be achieved perfectly well without violence. And wouldn't it be a good rule of thumb to avoid violence if it isn't necessary?

rgambs

Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.

oftenreading

rgambs wrote: »

Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.

I guess this is time for an "agree to disagree" position. I believe you have some life changes coming up, so time will tell whether your little bearded baby causes any changes in your opinion


By the way, I was also a big time tree climber of old, as was (is) my kid. I don't view that sort of exploration as inherently risky; in fact, I encourage it. A lack of knowledge about the world and one's own capabilities seems to me to be more risky. And yes, I have "been around thick skulled kids" (my brother, for example).

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs wrote: »

Oftenreading, for the most part I agree with what you say on a theoretical level, but in a practical sense I disagree. It wasn't a general sense of boundaries that kept me away from the road, it was the real consequence of a whoopin. Have you never been around any thick-skulled kids? I was all about pushing my limits within the physical world. When I saw a creek I had to determine if I could jump across it by trial. I wasn't content to climb the lowest branches of a tree, I had to try to peek my head out above the canopy. If I had the materials to do so, I would start fires to try to determine what things would burn, melt, or resist. Those are risky behaviors and talking just doesn't convey a sense of consequence to a strong willed child. I have known some childs that put themselves in serious danger routinely, despite the clear boundaries that their parents laid. That's when it's time for whuppin.

but when referencing these "thick skulled kids", a general smack on the bum that "hurts but doesn't harm", is going to do pretty much nothing anyway, so why bother? a kid isn't going to be afraid enough of a small smack on the butt to make them stop their risky and fun behaviour, is it? only a "whuppin" would, which you have said you are against.

also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.

proof positive that violence begets violence.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.

As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.

First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods.

hedonist

paulonious wrote: »

also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.

proof positive that violence begets violence.

Is it coincidence or proof positive?

I think what I quoted is a bit unfair on your part. I never "got my ass beat" yet believe assholes who inflict harm on others should pay the price.

If that's considered harsh or over the top, so be it.

HughFreakingDillon

hedonist wrote: »

paulonious wrote: »

also, as a general comment, those that have mentioned in this thread that they got their ass beat as a kid, seem to have a fairly harsh view of criminals and light sentences and social justice. a small pool to draw from, but an interesting coincidence, if a coincidence at all.

proof positive that violence begets violence.

Is it coincidence or proof positive?

I think what I quoted is a bit unfair on your part. I never "got my ass beat" yet believe assholes who inflict harm on others should pay the price.

If that's considered harsh or over the top, so be it.

to me violence begetting violence has been proven. but in this instance, it is only 3 or so people that I was referencing, which is an admittedly small pool to draw from. but I still stand by it.

I think those that inflict harm should pay the price as well. but what the price is, is subjective. I wasn't referring to you, as I don't know your stance on what you consider fitting punishments for criminals. but we can leave to that other threads.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »

Sometimes we tend to think of ourselves as heightened aliens- the type that have heads twice the size of our bodies and speak in digital tones.

As complex as human beings are, we are also very simple- especially as kids. If a kid associates playing on the highway with a swat on the ass... and they no longer play on the highway... good job parent! It's unrealistic to think 'every' child has the capacity to understand things they need to understand for their safety and the safety of others around them after a sit down discussion.

First attempts at curbing behavior should obviously be words, but in the event words fail... one may have to employ other methods.

let's say little seven bills unpaid gets a swat on the ass, and then you see him running in traffic again. what next?