There have been decades of research on the issue of the impact of corporal punishment as a form of discipline, and the outcomes are very consistent - corporal punishment can improve immediate behaviour (because the child is afraid of further punishment) but in the medium and long term leads to worse behaviour, particularly a higher rate of aggression toward others but also poorer ability to self-manage behaviour and less compliance with rules. Children who are hit tend to hit other children, both within and outside the family, and later on go on to higher rates of illegal behaviour.
Of course some will always stand up and say "I was spanked and it didn't do me any harm", much like people who say "my grandpa smoked and he lived to 90!". The evidence is pretty clear about the harms.
And as a parent I can also attest that it is perfectly possible to raise kids who are great citizens without hitting them, although at times when they are little you certainly feel like you'd like to hit something....
I don't recall any of the "it's ok to spank" responding to this from page 1. Anyone care to?
Yes I do think the studies that show no ill effects from spanking are biased as well. There is no way to account for the thousands of variables (temperment, resiliency, sensitivity of the child, severity and frequency of punishment, punishable offenses etc) which make these kinds of studies scientifically suspect if not worthless.
To respond to the post you referenced from page 1, that summary of tj e research on CP is over-reaching, and based on biased research. And while it is prefectly possible for SOME parents to raise SOME kids without CP, it is also perfectly possible for SOME parents to fail SOME kids by refusing to use a tool which can be argued effective.
You never answered my question, if a persons child persists in dangerous behavior and dies as a result, will that person not hate themselves for failing to use every means possible to keep their child alive?
To be clear, I am not saying the bias is always intentional, although I am sure sometimes it is. Bias can be found in all studies on human behavior, based on the variables which are selected to be included, which is why I reject studies on human behavior for the most part. Correlations can be made, and common sense can be used to make conclusions in some cases, but it is speculative, not definitive.
I didn't intentionally ignore that question, but I'll answer it now: I don't think it would ever enter my mind that hitting my kid would have been the method that saved their life. I just don't buy it.
One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say 'I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them,'" Francis said.
"How beautiful!" Francis remarked. "He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on."
yeah, cause making a child pull their pants down, bend over, and get smacked on the ass with or without an instrument is full of dignity.
"how beautiful?" says the pope? how is that even remotely beautiful? what an odd thing to say.
Well, this is an organization that has condoned and institutionalized the diddling of kids for years, so I guess child abuse is right up their alley. Well, as long as it's done with dignity.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
some interesting stuff in this thread, I have two boys and am firmly in the camp that there should never be a need to lay a finger on them.
I was brought up well disciplined, by parents who were firm but fair.....I never wanted to disappoint my folks, and always feared doing so.....purely because I knew how intensely proud they were of me and my brother. They never raised a hand to us, but we were actuely aware of where the boundaries were.........I have always tried to follow their parenting style........
some interesting stuff in this thread, I have two boys and am firmly in the camp that there should never be a need to lay a finger on them.
I was brought up well disciplined, by parents who were firm but fair.....I never wanted to disappoint my folks, and always feared doing so.....purely because I knew how intensely proud they were of me and my brother. They never raised a hand to us, but we were actuely aware of where the boundaries were.........I have always tried to follow their parenting style........
Good thoughts, pdalowsky, and I think you've reached the core of it, which is the relationship between parent and child. When the parents have worked hard to have it based on love and respect (i.e., the parents have behaved in ways which promote the children respecting their parents and wanting their good opinion), then the kids want to preserve that, and you can draw on that in difficult situations. I've been surprised at the argument that physical discipline is "necessary", when millions (tens of millions??) of parents don't use physical discipline and do quite well. Sounds as if you had great role models.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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I don't recall any of the "it's ok to spank" responding to this from page 1. Anyone care to?
www.headstonesband.com
To respond to the post you referenced from page 1, that summary of tj e research on CP is over-reaching, and based on biased research. And while it is prefectly possible for SOME parents to raise SOME kids without CP, it is also perfectly possible for SOME parents to fail SOME kids by refusing to use a tool which can be argued effective.
You never answered my question, if a persons child persists in dangerous behavior and dies as a result, will that person not hate themselves for failing to use every means possible to keep their child alive?
www.headstonesband.com
Spank away! Hallelujah.!
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/02/05/world/europe/ap-eu-rel-vatican-spanking-kids.html?_r=0
"How beautiful!" Francis remarked. "He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on."
yeah, cause making a child pull their pants down, bend over, and get smacked on the ass with or without an instrument is full of dignity.
"how beautiful?" says the pope? how is that even remotely beautiful? what an odd thing to say.
www.headstonesband.com
I was brought up well disciplined, by parents who were firm but fair.....I never wanted to disappoint my folks, and always feared doing so.....purely because I knew how intensely proud they were of me and my brother. They never raised a hand to us, but we were actuely aware of where the boundaries were.........I have always tried to follow their parenting style........
Good thoughts, pdalowsky, and I think you've reached the core of it, which is the relationship between parent and child. When the parents have worked hard to have it based on love and respect (i.e., the parents have behaved in ways which promote the children respecting their parents and wanting their good opinion), then the kids want to preserve that, and you can draw on that in difficult situations. I've been surprised at the argument that physical discipline is "necessary", when millions (tens of millions??) of parents don't use physical discipline and do quite well. Sounds as if you had great role models.