Police abuse

Can anyone tell me how many people are arrested in the United States on a daily basis? I'm way to lazy and drunk right now to bother to Google it. If I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere around 500+. Just a guess. How many of those arrests end with police abuse? 4? Maybe 5?

My point isn't "I'll take those odds." It's that police abuse isn't the norm. When it's bad, we hear about it. But I'd say 98% of arrests in this country are done professionally.

riotgrl said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Can anyone tell me how many people are arrested in the United States on a daily basis? I'm way to lazy and drunk right now to bother to Google it. If I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere around 500+. Just a guess. How many of those arrests end with police abuse? 4? Maybe 5?

My point isn't "I'll take those odds." It's that police abuse isn't the norm. When it's bad, we hear about it. But I'd say 98% of arrests in this country are done professionally.

I agree that most police are doing the best that they can and we only hear about the small percent that are abusive. This is true in many of the helping/public arena professions. But clearly it is problematic in that people are needlessly losing their lives. Training needs to change for these officers. But I've had another lately as well and that is, maybe part of the problem lies in a previous comment about us vs. them. Someone stated that they don't live in the neighborhood they work in and I think that makes it hard on the people because they have (sometimes) misplaced distrust of the officers but the officers can't relate to the people they are there to protect/apprehend. Perhaps a more comprehensive push to recruit (appropriate) candidates from the neighborhood to work in that particular precinct may go a long way in reestablishing good relations.

That's just not realistic in large cities. Hell, you're lucky to have 2 or 3 cops that live in their precinct in a small city.

oceaninmyeyes said:

I'm a nurse, not a law enforcement professional. But after seeing Mr. Garner complaining of not being able to breathe and then becoming unresponsive, and seeing the officers on the scene, who ordinarily part of a first responder team, to see them do nothing really upset me. And made me wonder, because nurses follow the Nursing Scope and Standards of Practice , what kind of professional oath officers take. I found this on the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge1,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution2
my community3 and the agency I serve.

Before any officer takes the Law Enforcement Oath of Honor, it is important that he/she understands what it means. An oath is a solemn pledge someone makes when he/she sincerely intends to do what he/she says.

Honor means that one's word is given as a guarantee.
Betray is defined as breaking faith with the public trust.
Badge is the symbol of your office.
Integrity is being the same person in both private and public life.
Character means the qualities that distinguish an individual.
Public trust is a charge of duty imposed in faith toward those you serve.
Courage is having the strength to withstand unethical pressure, fear or danger.
Accountability means that you are answerable and responsible to your oath of office.
Community is the jurisdiction and citizens served.

1 Insert appropriate term such as: badge; profession; country
2 Insert appropriate term such as: constitution, laws; monarch
3 Insert appropriate term such as: community; country; land; nationtheiacp.org/What-is-the-Law-Enforcement-Oath-of-Honor

Not helping an unconscious man does not seem to be upholding the public trust or holding yourself accountable for your actions. Nor does failing to render aid to a 12 year old that you just shot. It is like these officers don't recognize them as people. Something is seriously wrong here. I know some really good police officers and some truly lousy ones. I think some major house cleaning is in order.

First off, I want to thank you for what you do being a nurse and all. I have been pretty fucked up numerous times from my job and have had some fantastic caring nurses. I have also has some terrible ones… one that almost killed me, so you take the good with the bad along w/ any profession.
I wanted to adress your concern about police officers and rendering first aid. Police officers are not medics, nurses, doctors, ect. The Serve part of the whole serve and protect thing often gets misunderstood. In my city Police officers its forbidden to render first aid due to massive liability issues for the city and the Police officer. Now I am not going to say it does not happen, but it is against general orders and if caught you will definable be suspended at least a week or 2 without pay. A Police officer's first responsibility in a situation where first aid is needed is to call for a ambulance immediately, then secure the scene, looks for threats around perimeter of scene, make sure nobody is acting the fool around subject, and provide a lane for the medics to render first aide and exit scene for transport to hospital. Perhaps there will be a day when police are paid like Doctors and they can be a one stop shop for all your needs, but I don't see that happening. I don't ever pretend to know what it really takes to be a nurse, or a teacher, or Doctor, ect., … but it truly has been amusing to me reading all the posts on here of what people's expectations are of a Police officer. In any active resister situation our Use of Force model dictates that for lack of a better non-police phrase---- Police are not trained to fight fair. You attack the Police w/ a Knife expect to get shot, you grab for my gun and you don't get to it first expect to be shot, if you are 300lbs and do not comply to verbal commands expect the tazer if I have one or all sorts of hands on takedown moves that might kill you. If You are holding a gun and are ordered to drop it, one inclination of you raising that weapon fake or not towards the police expect to be shot numerous of times. It actually pretty simple and anyone with common sense will understand that, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in. Police Fuck up often, but that kind of goes with the program when your primary job is to respond and resolve people's problems that you don't know from squat and often times hate you.
I can go on and on about how Police are dammed if you do and dammed if don't, but who's got time for that. All Police want at the end of their shift is to make it home safely to their families…just like everyone else….but not many professions have the element of getting killed .

Musky...nice post, a couple thoughts
Some could look at a situation where a cop can be suspended without pay for offering cpr but given a desk job for a week for taking a life as backwards.
Not that i don't believe you but it seems even more backwards that a cop could be held liable for providing first aid but not for negligently taking a life.
Maybe these are the things that should be looked at and changed.
As for the dangers of being a cop, it's a choice, unless your forced into becoming a cop because it's a family thing. It's no secret it can be angerous, maybe more cops should instead be teachers or accountants.
There are about 825,000 cops in the US, about 824,875 go home alive to their families each year.

JC29856 said:

Can anyone tell me how many black are arrested in the United States on a daily basis? I'd say it's somewhere around 500+. Just a guess. How many of those arrests end with them resisting? 4? Maybe 5?

My point isn't "I'll take those odds." It's that blacks being thugs isn't the norm. When it's bad, we hear about it. But I'd say 98% of blacks in this country act professionally.

I'm pretty sure that I didn't give you permission to mock what I said. That is after all, how you answer questions that make sense or that you simply can't answer. With mockery. But your fictitious numbers are inaccurate. Next time you want to steal my thought, have something with a little better substance.

oceaninmyeyes said:

muskydan said:

First off, I want to thank you for what you do being a nurse and all. I have been pretty fucked up numerous times from my job and have had some fantastic caring nurses. I have also has some terrible ones… one that almost killed me, so you take the good with the bad along w/ any profession.
I wanted to adress your concern about police officers and rendering first aid. Police officers are not medics, nurses, doctors, ect. The Serve part of the whole serve and protect thing often gets misunderstood. In my city Police officers its forbidden to render first aid due to massive liability issues for the city and the Police officer. Now I am not going to say it does not happen, but it is against general orders and if caught you will definable be suspended at least a week or 2 without pay. A Police officer's first responsibility in a situation where first aid is needed is to call for a ambulance immediately, then secure the scene, looks for threats around perimeter of scene, make sure nobody is acting the fool around subject, and provide a lane for the medics to render first aide and exit scene for transport to hospital. Perhaps there will be a day when police are paid like Doctors and they can be a one stop shop for all your needs, but I don't see that happening. I don't ever pretend to know what it really takes to be a nurse, or a teacher, or Doctor, ect., … but it truly has been amusing to me reading all the posts on here of what people's expectations are of a Police officer. In any active resister situation our Use of Force model dictates that for lack of a better non-police phrase---- Police are not trained to fight fair. You attack the Police w/ a Knife expect to get shot, you grab for my gun and you don't get to it first expect to be shot, if you are 300lbs and do not comply to verbal commands expect the tazer if I have one or all sorts of hands on takedown moves that might kill you. If You are holding a gun and are ordered to drop it, one inclination of you raising that weapon fake or not towards the police expect to be shot numerous of times. It actually pretty simple and anyone with common sense will understand that, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in. Police Fuck up often, but that kind of goes with the program when your primary job is to respond and resolve people's problems that you don't know from squat and often times hate you.
I can go on and on about how Police are dammed if you do and dammed if don't, but who's got time for that. All Police want at the end of their shift is to make it home safely to their families…just like everyone else….but not many professions have the element of getting killed .

Point taken on the good and bad of any profession. I have had some pretty questionable nurses too. None have about killed me, but some made me want to kill them.

And thank you for the answer about the response you are mandated to give. I suppose someone in city hall doesn't want to face those legal liability issues and face a city lawsuit. But that is truly one case where they could be damned if you do (and injure someone further by rendering aid) and damned if you don't (the person dies because you do nothing). Even a grunt in the Army is taught how to apply pressure to a wound and deliver basic first aid and do CPR. I teach lay people that Good Samaritan laws protect them from lawsuits if they render CPR. From what I understand they would also cover me if I was out driving and came upon a scene, but would not cover you because you are on the job.

Is it the same if you walk in on a scene where say a guy goes nuts and shoots his family? Are you still not supposed to try and keep people from bleeding to death before the ambulance and EMT's arrive?

In that situation if the guy is still on scene The police's first priority is to eliminate the threat so the EMT guys can get to the victims. I have been a part of a similar situation where dude killed his best friend and wife after he caught them doing whoppi. He barracaded himself in the apartment. Meanwhile we can hear his wife and friend screaming in agony as they were bleeding out. EMT's we're going nowhere near that situation until dude was elimated. It took us about 15 minutes to gear up and take the apartment. It was quite the gun battle and dude looked like Swiss cheese when it was all said and done. Unfortionately the wife and friend had already expired by the time we got to them. I personally have rendered first aid numerous times, but it all depends on the situation. I ain't getting blood on my hands from some gangbanger who got lit up on the corner selling dope Where he ain't supposed 2 be. That's about 90 % of my towns shootings .
But to answer you question, NO, you are not supposed to touch anyone. Wait for ambulance

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/street-artist-critical-condition-facing-death-police-car-ran/

DW playbook similar to MB incredible hulk hogan running at bullets...and then the classic "if he wouldn't have been committing a crime".

Detective Michael Cadavid chased after the young artist in his unmarked patrol car, eventually running him over. After the incident, Cadavid claimed that Demz jumped out in front of the car and could not be avoided.
“I understand she is extremely upset, and rightfully so, and that her son is in the hospital,” Miami police union President Javier Ortiz said by text. “However, for every action there’s a reaction. If he would have not been committing a crime and then running from law enforcement, this could have been avoided. Her son is in our prayers.”