Is it just me or is it starting to feel like we (the world) are heading for another mass pandemic? Maybe something along the lines of the Spanish lnfluenza of 1918? That pandemic wiped out about 5% of the world's population (depending on estimates that could be from 50-100 million people).
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I not gonna start panicking yet, but, I did mention that I hope this isn't another Spanish Influenza pandemic to my ex this morning. That was just plain stupidity on the nurses part though for travelling with a fever after just caring for an Ebola patient.
So Ebola isn't contagious unless the person is already displaying symptoms. If the nurse is being honest, she wasn't feeling anything when she flew. Not until the next day. So that's good news.... if she really had no symptoms on the plane.
As for restricting air travel from West Africa... yes, that seems like a necessary step. But that's not going to stop the people going from West Africa to somewhere else and then state side. Should West Africa forbid all people from leaving the region? Shut down all borders and airports in all of West Africa?? That seems extreme considering that the plain old flu kills 100 times the number of people each year than this outbreak of Ebola has so far.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I not gonna start panicking yet, but, I did mention that I hope this isn't another Spanish Influenza pandemic to my ex this morning. That was just plain stupidity on the nurses part though for travelling with a fever after just caring for an Ebola patient.
I read on the BBC that she didn't have a fever when she was flying. Not until the next day....
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
CNN reports here are saying she had a low grade fever of 99.8 prior to travelling and that she called the cdc and reported it and they told her go ahead with travel plans. They are now backtracking and said she should not have travelled.
She has a lot more to worry about than shame. Even if she was contagious on the plane, the chances of her infecting anyone is low. She would literally have to spit, urinate, or bang someone on the plane to infect them. Right? I guess a sneeze or a cough in soembodys face wouldn't help matters.
Unfortunately the virus can survive for hours on surfaces in fluids like sweat/spit (think all the surfaces in the airports and plane). It can survive for DAYS in fluids like blood/semen etc. So it is no joke to be running around with this stuff.
I am a healthcare worker. What is most concerning to me about all this is why this travel occurred in the first place? She is a nurse, she has been trained in universal precautions (related to infectious diseases). If she worked in the ED probably (hopefully) trained beyond that to include more vigorous precautions (droplet isolation, airborne contact precautions etc). To hear a group come out and say "we weren't trained/prepared for this and didn't have supplies for protection is total nonsense. I've worked for sever hospitals and these supplies are ubiquitous. Most concerning is to have a health care professional who KNOWS THEY WERE EXPOSED start traveling around. I don't care if she was a symptomatic when she started her travel. That is just completely irresponsible at best, and criminal at worst. Her training as a nurse necessitates that she know better. She should lose her nursing license at the least.
I'm a fireman, so we have been getting flooded with protocols. I've heard it can last up to 24 hours in room temperature. Haven't heard days. How many days?
I agree what she did could be considered criminal at worst, selfish at best.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Unfortunately the virus can survive for hours on surfaces in fluids like sweat/spit (think all the surfaces in the airports and plane). It can survive for DAYS in fluids like blood/semen etc. So it is no joke to be running around with this stuff.
I am a healthcare worker. What is most concerning to me about all this is why this travel occurred in the first place? She is a nurse, she has been trained in universal precautions (related to infectious diseases). If she worked in the ED probably (hopefully) trained beyond that to include more vigorous precautions (droplet isolation, airborne contact precautions etc). To hear a group come out and say "we weren't trained/prepared for this and didn't have supplies for protection is total nonsense. I've worked for sever hospitals and these supplies are ubiquitous. Most concerning is to have a health care professional who KNOWS THEY WERE EXPOSED start traveling around. I don't care if she was a symptomatic when she started her travel. That is just completely irresponsible at best, and criminal at worst. Her training as a nurse necessitates that she know better. She should lose her nursing license at the least.
Definitely appreciate hearing from someone in the health field.
To compare this to obesity, smoking, etc. as noted in gimme's post, I don't really think there's a parallel. One is contagious, the others aren't and are self-imposed.
As far as exposure risk goes here is some peer reviewed medical info that the lay media is quoting:
SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) Footnote 52 Footnote . One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature Footnote . In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa) Footnote 53. When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days Footnote . This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting.
A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed Footnote 64. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.
So to summarize the above, it seems that less biohazard prone fluids (spit/saliva) are not viable for long outside the body at normal temps (hours). Blood/diarrhea type fluids we're talking days.
This little fact sheet from the CDC does a good job summarizing Ebola in an easy to understand format. The only thing it leaves out is the viability outside the body discussion that I outlined above.
Of note, semen can can hold virus in a previously exposed person for months. So I would say at that point sexual transmission is possible long after recovery!!!
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,788
So to summarize the above, it seems that less biohazard prone fluids (spit/saliva) are not viable for long outside the body at normal temps (hours). Blood/diarrhea type fluids we're talking days.
makes sense to me. Theres a lot more food for it to live on?
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That's one way to look at it. You're thinking bacteria. Bacteria are microorganisms that are considered "alive" from the sense that they have all the cellular machinery inside to perform life sustaining functions. However they must take in nutrients. Viruses are not "alive" in the sense that they do not contain this machinery. The require a host cell to penetrate and then they use the DNA/RNA machinery inside to replicate over and over until they burst that cell open and all the new viruses go and find other "victim" cells.
It's only real function is to replicate. However since there is less biological machinery associated with a virus bs a bacteria sometimes their ability to survive is greater.
Ebola is a virus. Ebola is a son of a bitch (Or a son of a bat...lame joke)
The closing of some schools in Texas and Ohio due to someone being on the same flight as the nurse IMO will only fuel the fears although I do understand the precaution when it comes to protecting the children. If only they would do this during serious flu outbreaks and in areas of higher confirmed cases of Enterovirus.
The closing of some schools in Texas and Ohio due to someone being on the same flight as the nurse IMO will only fuel the fears although I do understand the precaution when it comes to protecting the children. If only they would do this during serious flu outbreaks and in areas of higher confirmed cases of Enterovirus.
Thanks for the levity. Apparently the sky is falling.
Not to be a dick, but one of these things is not like the other...one of these things is not the same. Drinking, overeating, smoking...these are all things we expose ourselves to for the most part and can choose to worry about if we want...but exposure to cigarette smoke or a cheeseburger today probably won't cause me to die a horrible, painful death in a matter of weeks...
Emergency preparedness protocols and hyper vigilance in regards to disease education and transmission prevention are very important and can be very successful. While people can certainly overreact, what can appear as overreaction because numbers don't add up in the end can actually be the reason the numbers don't add up in the end....Hard to prove the negative I suppose
But I probably just came off as a condescending wet blanket, so back to the shadows I go.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,788
ok, lets take the plane and crews to denver to clean again. it had made 5 more flights before cycling back through to dallas. take one nurse to altalnta and the other should go to bethesda , because THAT makes sense.
this shit is being run by the keystone kops, I swear.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Thanks for the levity. Apparently the sky is falling.
Not to be a dick, but one of these things is not like the other...one of these things is not the same. Drinking, overeating, smoking...these are all things we expose ourselves to for the most part and can choose to worry about if we want...but exposure to cigarette smoke or a cheeseburger today probably won't cause me to die a horrible, painful death in a matter of weeks...
Emergency preparedness protocols and hyper vigilance in regards to disease education and transmission prevention are very important and can be very successful. While people can certainly overreact, what can appear as overreaction because numbers don't add up in the end can actually be the reason the numbers don't add up in the end....Hard to prove the negative I suppose
But I probably just came off as a condescending wet blanket, so back to the shadows I go.
You're not being a dick at all. You have a fair point.
But personally I think the coverage in the media of Ebola is sensationalist. Less about education and prevention and more about selling newspapers by scaring people. They have every right to do that but it is my responsibility as part of Joe public to look at it with a critical eye.
our media is covering this the same way they cover other things. when non-americans are dying from something, the media buries the story in the back pages, if it reports on it at all. just like the israeli occupation.
when ONE single american is impacted, suddenly it is front page news and on cable news 24 hours a day for months.
our press coverage of ebola is atrocious. it is an embarrassment. people in africa have been dying for months, and when 3 americans get it, suddenly we are all going to die.
our press should be ashamed of themselves.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
As for restricting air travel from West Africa... yes, that seems like a necessary step. But that's not going to stop the people going from West Africa to somewhere else and then state side. Should West Africa forbid all people from leaving the region? Shut down all borders and airports in all of West Africa?? That seems extreme considering that the plain old flu kills 100 times the number of people each year than this outbreak of Ebola has so far.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I am a healthcare worker. What is most concerning to me about all this is why this travel occurred in the first place? She is a nurse, she has been trained in universal precautions (related to infectious diseases). If she worked in the ED probably (hopefully) trained beyond that to include more vigorous precautions (droplet isolation, airborne contact precautions etc). To hear a group come out and say "we weren't trained/prepared for this and didn't have supplies for protection is total nonsense. I've worked for sever hospitals and these supplies are ubiquitous. Most concerning is to have a health care professional who KNOWS THEY WERE EXPOSED start traveling around. I don't care if she was a symptomatic when she started her travel. That is just completely irresponsible at best, and criminal at worst. Her training as a nurse necessitates that she know better. She should lose her nursing license at the least.
I agree what she did could be considered criminal at worst, selfish at best.
To compare this to obesity, smoking, etc. as noted in gimme's post, I don't really think there's a parallel. One is contagious, the others aren't and are self-imposed.
SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) Footnote 52 Footnote . One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature Footnote . In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa) Footnote 53. When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days Footnote . This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting.
A study on transmission of ebolavirus from fomites in an isolation ward concludes that the risk of transmission is low when recommended infection control guidelines for viral hemorrhagic fevers are followed Footnote 64. Infection control protocols included decontamination of floors with 0.5% bleach daily and decontamination of visibly contaminated surfaces with 0.05% bleach as necessary.
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-factsheet.pdf
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It's only real function is to replicate. However since there is less biological machinery associated with a virus bs a bacteria sometimes their ability to survive is greater.
Ebola is a virus. Ebola is a son of a bitch
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Not to be a dick, but one of these things is not like the other...one of these things is not the same. Drinking, overeating, smoking...these are all things we expose ourselves to for the most part and can choose to worry about if we want...but exposure to cigarette smoke or a cheeseburger today probably won't cause me to die a horrible, painful death in a matter of weeks...
Emergency preparedness protocols and hyper vigilance in regards to disease education and transmission prevention are very important and can be very successful. While people can certainly overreact, what can appear as overreaction because numbers don't add up in the end can actually be the reason the numbers don't add up in the end....Hard to prove the negative I suppose
But I probably just came off as a condescending wet blanket, so back to the shadows I go.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
this shit is being run by the keystone kops, I swear.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But personally I think the coverage in the media of Ebola is sensationalist. Less about education and prevention and more about selling newspapers by scaring people. They have every right to do that but it is my responsibility as part of Joe public to look at it with a critical eye.
Course looks like civilian side not so swift as well.
our politicians are so tone deaf to science, that they not only don't listen to what scientists and research has to say, but they do the opposite.
scientists are saying a travel ban will not help the problem, and what does our congress want to do?? IMPLEMENT A FUCKING TRAVEL BAN!!!
god we are so stupid....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
when ONE single american is impacted, suddenly it is front page news and on cable news 24 hours a day for months.
our press coverage of ebola is atrocious. it is an embarrassment. people in africa have been dying for months, and when 3 americans get it, suddenly we are all going to die.
our press should be ashamed of themselves.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."