Malaysian Plane Possibly Shot Down?

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  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    This article was written July 9th (before the crash). It relates the political maneuvering in Ukraine to the TAPI pipeline project the Afghanistan war was fought over. People need to pay more attention to trade when talking war. We all admit that corporations run our fucking government, but no one seems to want to expose the government/corporate (fascist) geo-political goals that are central to most conflicts.



    Pushing Ukraine to the Brink


    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/pushing-ukraine-to-the-brink/

    In Ukraine, the US is using a divide and conquer strategy to pit the EU against trading partner Moscow. The State Department and CIA helped to topple Ukraine’s elected President Viktor Yanukovych and install a US stooge in Kiev who was ordered to cut off the flow of Russian gas to the EU and lure Putin into a protracted guerilla war in Ukraine. The bigwigs in Washington figured that, with some provocation, Putin would react the same way he did when Georgia invaded South Ossetia in 2006. But, so far, Putin has resisted the temptation to get involved which is why new puppet president Petro Poroshenko has gone all “Jackie Chan” and stepped up the provocations by pummeling east Ukraine mercilessly. It’s just a way of goading Putin into sending in the tanks.

    But here’s the odd part: Washington doesn’t have a back-up plan. It’s obvious by the way Poroshenko keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. That demonstrates that there’s no Plan B. Either Poroshenko lures Putin across the border and into the conflict, or the neocon plan falls apart, which it will if they can’t demonize Putin as a “dangerous aggressor” who can’t be trusted as a business partner.

    So all Putin has to do is sit-tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow’s gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow’s doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall.
  • Guitar92player
    Guitar92player Posts: 664
    Leathe?ma? said:

    Guitar92player said:


    I am probably wrong but it is clear he wants Ukraine back.

    you are probably wrong. Ukraine is a poor country with no resourses. Im not a fan of Putin poilitics, but the last thing he needs now is control over Ukraine (and a new war)
    It's not a resources thing. Russia was born in Ukraine. It's an ethnic thing.

    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    just came across this, from earlier this week:

    What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17
    written by ron paul
    sunday july 20, 2014

    Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

    While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.

    They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

    The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

    They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.

    They will not report that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

    They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

    They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

    They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.

    They will not report that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

    They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

    Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it's very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    I will simplify this for Ron Paul.

    Warzone + Civilian Aircraft + Poorly Trained People + Missile Launcher + Soviet Mentality = 300 Dead Civilians
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    Two Ukrainian fighter jets were just shot down. I imagine the "rebels" are going to claim that the Ukraine shot them down.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Leathe?ma?
    Leathe?ma? Яussia Posts: 354
    Jason P said:

    I will simplify this for Ron Paul.

    Warzone + Civilian Aircraft + Poorly Trained People + Missile Launcher + Soviet Mentality = 300 Dead Civilians

    this is your investigation? wow.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    Leathe?ma? said:

    Jason P said:

    I will simplify this for Ron Paul.

    Warzone + Civilian Aircraft + Poorly Trained People + Missile Launcher + Soviet Mentality = 300 Dead Civilians

    this is your investigation? wow.
    Pretty much sums things up.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    I also thought that people were jumping to conclusions because the very first reports... i.e. speculations... from our sad broadcast 'News' outlets was to suspect a shoulder fired weapon, similar to a Stinger missle. This was impossible because the plane outside of the operational scope of that type of weapon. It has to be a system capable of hitting an airliner at cruise altitude 32,000 to 37,000 feet. It HAD to be an anti-aircraft system fired from either a fixed or mobile position.
    Either of those types of weapon systems require a multiple personel crew with adequate training on use of the weapon. You or i cannot gather 6 of our friends and figure out how to operate the radar and targeting systems without someone teaching us how it all works. We may be able to figure out how to fire the thing... but, we would probably not hit anything... especially a 777 at cruise speed/altitude.
    So, that in mind... the prime suspect is a mobile system. The BUK Surface-to-Air Systems are made in Russia and used by their forces... but, it is also in possession of the Ukraine, too. The same way the Ukraine owns and operates Russian made tanks, helicopters and planes.
    What the news is showing us is a BUK SA System moving along a road with 2 missiles in the breach. It has not been confirmed by time or location. That footage could have been taken of and BUK system... anywhere and at any time. It is not proof of anything.
    I wish our News Outlets would go back to Journaliasm Class and learn to serve us truth and fact... not speculation and belief.
    ...
    So, either the Russian Seperatists or Russian Seperatists who were formerly in the Ukrainian Army, trained to operate the system fired a system they captured to defected from Ukrainian Forces... of it was fired from Russian Soldiers in support of Seperatists... or it was fired from Ukrainian Forces. We cannot tell by the marking to which force it belongs or belonged to.
    ...
    The thing is we do not know. But, from the actions of the Russian Seperatists, they tells us that they probably don't want the truth revealed. Of the 3 possible suspects... the Seperatists look like they are the ones that have something to hide. They may have honestly mistaken the Malasian Airliner as a Ukrainian Anatov Cargo plane. But even if it was, they will never own up to such a costly mistake.
    The truth is... we will probably never know the truth.
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    Hail, Hail!!!
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    edited July 2014
    Okay. I think we have our answer now. And it would put Ukrainian pilots squarely to blame.
    http://youtu.be/aKKoKmUtQXE?t=1m7s
    at 1:07 when you are ready to hear the truth.
    Posted ONE MONTH BEFORE MH17 SHOT DOWN.

    Did it happen again, and they finally WERE provoked? Or the missle was already off?
    Now you tell me.
    ???
    Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    edited July 2014
    I don't understand hooplehead. Also, is that the girl from NCIS?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    There were already rumors going around from the Russian side of this debacle claiming there were two fighters behind MH17. Alternative news has been trying to make sense of that. This video from not-NCIS-but-hot was published on JUNE18th. At 1:07 she tells a story of Ukrainian fighters hiding behind a passenger plane, diving, dropping bombs on a"seperatist" residential area then REHIDING behind the passenger plane again. That was a month prior. you don't think it happened again for the umpteenth time and a rocket was launched at the hiding fighter and missed?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    US and EU place more sanctions on Russia. No more AK-47 sales .... it would be a good day to own one cause their resell price is going to double.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • elvistheking44
    elvistheking44 Posts: 4,542
    D
    DriftingByTheStorm said:

    Okay. I think we have our answer now. And it would put Ukrainian pilots squarely to blame.
    http://youtu.be/aKKoKmUtQXE?t=1m7s
    at 1:07 when you are ready to hear the truth.
    Posted ONE MONTH BEFORE MH17 SHOT DOWN.

    Did it happen again, and they finally WERE provoked? Or the missle was already off?
    Now you tell me.
    ???

    Do you have the translated version of this video?
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    anyone still following this story?
    The secret service in the Ukraine are now saying the rebels were targetting a different passenger plane - a russian one - as a false flag meant to draw Russia in for military action against Ukraine....which was basically the claim being levelled against them (Ukraine's coup government).
    Not every day you see two opposing sides pointing fingers in a blame game over false flags. Bizzare shit. I'm guessing the media coverage of these claims is pretty much nil. As is the coverage of the investigation by OSCE monitors who found machine gun like holes in the fuselage. MSM in Malaysia has reported that the plane was shot down by an AIR to AIR missile, and finished off with machine gun fire....still no mention (that I've seen anyway) of the Ukraine fighter jets that were trailing the plane, nor of who ordered the plane to change flight paths.

    Why won't the US release their satellite footage from the area, like Russia did?


  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,306
    International prosecutors investigating the downing of a Malaysian airliner two years ago have concluded it was shot down by a Russian-made missile fired from rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine, victims' family members said on Wednesday.

    businessinsider.com/international-investigation-finds-russian-backed-ukraine-rebels-shot-down-mh17-2016-9

    To which I say ... "No shit, Sherlock"

    2 years and how much money spent? They could have given me $50K and I could have solved this mystery over the weekend.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    With all the lives lost someone or some country should have to pay for this tragedy.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478

    Missile That Downed MH17 Came From Russian Military, Investigators Say

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/24/613979423/investigators-say-missile-that-downed-mh17-came-from-russian-military
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,680
    This sucks... not sure what could or should be done about it though. No nation or anyone seems ready to react.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    List of airliner shootdown incidents

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

    I guess commercial airliner takedown has happened more than I thought...

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    dignin said:

    Missile That Downed MH17 Came From Russian Military, Investigators Say

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/24/613979423/investigators-say-missile-that-downed-mh17-came-from-russian-military
    Funny reading through this thread and seeing some of the same people from the Syria thread posting that it wasnt Russia, it wasnt Putin, the MSM was pushing a false narrative, and "alternative media" was on the case

    Wake up folks, Putin is fucking evil

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