Funny reading through this thread and seeing some of the same people from the Syria thread posting that it wasnt Russia, it wasnt Putin, the MSM was pushing a false narrative, and "alternative media" was on the case
Wake up folks, Putin is fucking evil
Like funny haha, or...? Reading through this thread, did you bother to look into whether or not any of the questions posed by us 'hatters were answered when the results of this investigation came out? Or are you just happy to accept it at face and blame Putin cause he's fucking evil? About par... I won't bother with the whataboutism just yet...
Funny reading through this thread and seeing some of the same people from the Syria thread posting that it wasnt Russia, it wasnt Putin, the MSM was pushing a false narrative, and "alternative media" was on the case
Wake up folks, Putin is fucking evil
Like funny haha, or...? Reading through this thread, did you bother to look into whether or not any of the questions posed by us 'hatters were answered when the results of this investigation came out? Or are you just happy to accept it at face and blame Putin cause he's fucking evil? About par... I won't bother with the whataboutism just yet...
Russian military shot down a civilian airliner... what questions do you have that matter beyond that? Should I question if Russia did it, do you dispute that?
Funny reading through this thread and seeing some of the same people from the Syria thread posting that it wasnt Russia, it wasnt Putin, the MSM was pushing a false narrative, and "alternative media" was on the case
Wake up folks, Putin is fucking evil
Like funny haha, or...? Reading through this thread, did you bother to look into whether or not any of the questions posed by us 'hatters were answered when the results of this investigation came out? Or are you just happy to accept it at face and blame Putin cause he's fucking evil? About par... I won't bother with the whataboutism just yet...
Russian military shot down a civilian airliner... what questions do you have that matter beyond that? Should I question if Russia did it, do you dispute that?
Putin isn't evil?
Thought you said you read the thread. Never mind. Accept what you read. Or wake up. Or be condescending. All good. Putin is evil. So is Murica.
Wake up was your comment. Turnabout n stuff. You tell me who shot it down, since you’ve read the report, considered the evidence presented by both sides, answered the questions you read in this thread, and have drawn your own independent conclusion based on critical thinking and not just a headline.
I’m trying to figure out if m2h has read anything about this at all, and has anything to contribute other than ‘tin foil. Putin evil’. I don’t really have a position, but since m2h took the time to insult and talk down to me (vaguely, of course), and he has obviously accepted the findings of a NATO -led investigation as gospel, I want to know his answers to the questions I posed earlier in the thread.
Okay... Well I haven't read the whole thread - I just read that article that says Russia shot the plane down. Do you think Russia did not? If not, why? Could you direct me to your posts that explains this? I'm curious as to why you're questioning it, given what authorities have reported.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
So you're talking about your posts from 2014, before there was any evidence of anything?? I'm inclined to believe the conclusions of the international investigators after a 4 year investigation here, not a 4 year old conspiracy theory.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Ok so shouldn’t be any issue debunking the old theories, right? Let’s hear how this investigation did that. And while we are at it...show me where the investigation points to who ordered the launc, and who was at the controls.
I didn't say it did... But you haven't presented any evidence either. All I know is that investigators say that the weapon used was from the Russian military... You've not said anything to make me think otherwise.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The Ukrainians were in possession of BUK systems as well. There is not really much question about the origins of ground to air missiles in the region. Well, there are questions regarding whether one was used, but that’s more tin foil. No missiles on satellite data (too fast, apparently). No mention of Ukraine fighter jets tailing the plane, or bullet holes in the fuselage near the cockpit (tho the claim is that the missile exploded in front of the plane, leaving only a couple pieces of BUK missile shrapnel over the entire crash site). No mention of Ukrainian air traffic control re-routing the plane over a war zone and telling them to decrease altitude. No mention of tampering with previous flight data records. No mention of any Russian cooperation and evidence being turned over to investigators. No mention of blame for the launch. From what I’ve read (haven’t read the report itself yet), it pretty much just repeats the same ‘evidence’ floated in 2014. Which all relies on Ukrainian witnesses and testimony...remember the US paid billions for the coup that put their nazi friends in power there. Again, like Syrian chemical attacks, there is no logic behind Russia doing this intentionally...aside from ‘Putin is evil’, or, it was a case of mistaken identity; in which case the US has precedent with Iran Air, and has no business calling anyone evil. If Putin is evil because of an accident, then M2h just called the US navy evil, on Memorial Day. Tsk tsk.
Maybe the apartment bombings were really an American/NATO false flag too?
Let me guess... the systematic and continued assassination of journalists and political opposition in Russia are also western false flag operations?
Just like the chemical attacks in Syria, all western false flags, right?
I take ownership of American bullshit, no need to lecture me there... but you keep making excuses for one of the truly murderous and devious leaders currently on the planet my friend... be careful who you hang out with
The Ukrainians were in possession of BUK systems as well. There is not really much question about the origins of ground to air missiles in the region. Well, there are questions regarding whether one was used, but that’s more tin foil. No missiles on satellite data (too fast, apparently). No mention of Ukraine fighter jets tailing the plane, or bullet holes in the fuselage near the cockpit (tho the claim is that the missile exploded in front of the plane, leaving only a couple pieces of BUK missile shrapnel over the entire crash site). No mention of Ukrainian air traffic control re-routing the plane over a war zone and telling them to decrease altitude. No mention of tampering with previous flight data records. No mention of any Russian cooperation and evidence being turned over to investigators. No mention of blame for the launch. From what I’ve read (haven’t read the report itself yet), it pretty much just repeats the same ‘evidence’ floated in 2014. Which all relies on Ukrainian witnesses and testimony...remember the
Some people prefer Russian propaganda as explanations... I prefer international/impartial investigations, mixed with some historical context, and a touch of common sense
International/impartial? A NATO military official standing before the world explaining vaguely how the bad guys are bad guys, while ignoring everything the bad guy says. Doesn’t ring any bells does it? And you take ownership of US bullshit, eh? Lulz.
Spare me the projections - don’t put words in my mouth. I am aware that Putin is likely responsible for thousands of deaths. I don’t need his opponents to define the circumstances for me. Some people do, I guess. You repeatedly bait and switch in these convos, never addressing anything specific. Just personal jabs.
Show me the personal jabs? You seem to take it personal when your conspiracies get called out for the bs that they usually are. Not everything is a Western lead false flag attack my friend
In Soviet Russia, plane shoots rocket down. Oopsy daisy. Just a bunch of dead tourists that a Russian warlord and good friend of Vlady shot down. Good times for the Russians for about 30 minutes until the dumbasses realized the killed a bunch of women and children
Russia Deployed Its Trolls to Cover Up the Murder of 298 People on MH17
The same Putin-backed agency that hit the U.S. elections went into conspiracy-theory overdrive when Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine blew a Malaysian airliner out of the sky.
MH17 judgment day: Verdicts due against 4 suspects at trial
By MIKE CORDER and RAF CASERT
25 mins ago
SCHIPHOL, Netherlands (AP) — In a courtroom packed with relatives of victims killed in the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, a Dutch judge began reading the verdict Thursday in the trial of three Russians and a Ukrainian on trial for their alleged roles in the aviation disaster.
The verdict comes more than eight years after the Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was blown out of the sky over Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew members. The midair explosion and crash on July 17, 2014 happened amid a conflict between pro-Russia rebels and Ukrainian forces.
Presiding Judge Hendrik Steenhuis opened Thursday's hearing and said “the court takes the view that the MH17 was brought down by a Buk missile” launched from an agricultural field in eastern Ukraine.
In another important finding, Steenhuis said that the court believed that Russia had overall control at the time of a separatist region in eastern Ukraine, the Donetsk People's Republic. The crash scattered wreckage and bodies over farmland and fields of sunflowers.
The judge said he would go on to rule on other legal issues and the guilt or innocence of the suspects later in the hearing.
Tension was high among families ahead of the hearing.
“The truth on the table — that is the most important thing,” said Anton Kotte, who lost his son, daughter-in-law and his 6-year-old grandson when MH17 was shot down. He said the hearing was a “D-Day” for relatives.
Robbert van Heijningen, who lost his brother, sister-in-law and nephew, called the downing “an act of barbarism” that he could never put behind him, regardless of the verdict.
“I call it a stone in my heart, and stones ... don’t disappear,” he said.
None of the suspects appeared for the trial that began in March 2020 and if they are convicted, it's unlikely they will serve any sentence anytime soon. Prosecutors have sought life sentences for all four. Prosecutors and the suspects have two weeks to file an appeal.
The Hague District Court, sitting at a high-security courtroom at Schiphol Airport, is passing judgment against a backdrop of global geopolitical upheaval caused by Russia's full-blown invasion of Ukraine in February and the nearly nine-month war it triggered.
Hundreds of family members of people killed traveled to the court to hear the verdict, bringing them back to the airport their loved ones left on the fateful day MH17 was shot down. Outside the court, planes could be heard taking off and landing nearby on a cold, gray day.
Dutch prosecutors say the missile launcher came from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, a unit of the Russian armed forces based in the Russian city of Kursk and was driven back there after MH17 was shot down.
The suspects aren't accused of firing the missile but of working together to get it to the field where it was fired. They are accused of bringing down the plane and the murder of all those on board.
The most senior defendant is Igor Girkin, a 51-year-old former colonel in Russia's Federal Security Service, or FSB. At the time of the downing, he was defense minister and commander of the armed forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic — the region where the plane was shot down. Girkin reportedly is currently involved in Russia’s war on Ukraine.
Also on trial are Girkin's subordinates, Sergey Dubinskiy, Oleg Pulatov, and Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian who prosecutors say was commander of a pro-Russia rebel combat unit and took orders directly from Dubinskiy.
Pulatov is the only one of the suspects who was represented by defense lawyers at the trial. They accused prosecutors of “tunnel vision” in basing their case on the findings of an international investigation into the downing while ignoring other possible causes.
Pulatov’s defense team also sought to discredit evidence and argued he didn’t get a fair trial.
In a video recording played in court, Pulatov insisted he was innocent and told judges: “What matters to me is that the truth is revealed. It’s important for me that my country is not blamed for this tragedy.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — An international team of investigators said Wednesday it found “strong indications” that Russian President Vladimir Putin approved the supply of heavy anti-aircraft weapons to Ukrainian separatists who shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 with a Russian missile.
However, members of the Joint Investigation Team said they had insufficient evidence to prosecute Putin or any other suspects and they suspended their 8½-year inquiry into the shooting down that killed all 298 people on board the Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
Russia has always denied any involvement in the downing of the flight over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, and refused to cooperate with the international investigation.
Dutch prosecutors said that “there are strong indications that the Russian president decided on supplying” a Buk missile system — the weapon that downed MH17 — to Ukrainian separatists.
“Although we speak of strong indications, the high bar of complete and conclusive evidence is not reached," Dutch prosecutor Digna van Boetzelaer said, adding that without Russian cooperation, “the investigation has now reached its limit. All leads have been exhausted.”
She also said that, as head of state, Putin would have immunity from prosecution in the Netherlands. The team played a recording of an intercepted phone call in which they said Putin could be heard discussing the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
“Are we disappointed? No, because we think we came further than we had ever thought in 2014. Would we have liked to come further? Of course, yes,” said Andy Kraag of the Dutch police.
The team informed relatives of those killed in the downing of MH17 of their findings before making them public.
“There was disappointment because ... they wanted to know why MH17 was shot down," Kraag said. "We’re really clear on what has happened, but the answer to the question why MH17 was shot down still remains in Russia.”
Van Boetzelaer said that while the investigation is being suspended, phone lines will remain open for possible witnesses who may still want to provide evidence. If that happens, the inquiry could be reactivated.
Russian officials say that a decision to provide rebels with military support over the summer of 2014 was in Putin’s hands.
A decision to supply arms was even postponed for a week “because there is only one who makes a decision (…), the person who is currently at a summit in France,” the investigative team said, citing a phone conversation that was referring to Putin.
Prosecutors said that at the time Putin was at a commemoration of D-Day in France.
The announcement by the investigative team comes nearly three months after a Dutch court convicted two Russians and a Ukrainian rebel for their roles in shooting down the plane. One Russian was acquitted by the court.
None of the suspects appeared for the trial and it was unclear if the three who were found guilty of multiple murders will ever serve their sentences.
The convictions and the court's finding that the surface-to-air Buk missile came from a Russian military base were seen as a clear indication that Moscow had a role in the tragedy. Russia has always denied involvement. The Russian Foreign Ministry accused the court in November of bowing to pressure from Dutch politicians, prosecutors and the news media.
But the November convictions held that Moscow was in overall control in 2014 over the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, the separatist area of eastern Ukraine where the missile was launched. The Buk missile system came from the Russian military's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, based in the city of Kursk.
The Joint Investigation Team is made up of experts from the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Belgium and Ukraine. Most of the victims were Dutch. It had continued to investigate the crew of the missile system that brought down the plane and those who ordered its deployment in Ukraine.
As well as the criminal trial that was held in the Netherlands, the Dutch and Ukrainian governments are suing Russia at the European Court of Human Rights over its alleged role in the downing of MH17.
The findings revealed Wednesday will likely strengthen the case at the human rights court and could also be used by prosecutors at the International Criminal Court who are investigating possible war crimes in Ukraine dating back to the start of the separatist conflict.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Reading through this thread, did you bother to look into whether or not any of the questions posed by us 'hatters were answered when the results of this investigation came out? Or are you just happy to accept it at face and blame Putin cause he's fucking evil? About par...
I won't bother with the whataboutism just yet...
Putin isn't evil?
Putin is evil. So is Murica.
At least you didn't callme a sheep lol
Russian military didn't shoot the plane down?
I'm wide awake, trust me
I don’t really have a position, but since m2h took the time to insult and talk down to me (vaguely, of course), and he has obviously accepted the findings of a NATO -led investigation as gospel, I want to know his answers to the questions I posed earlier in the thread.
Let me guess... the systematic and continued assassination of journalists and political opposition in Russia are also western false flag operations?
Just like the chemical attacks in Syria, all western false flags, right?
I take ownership of American bullshit, no need to lecture me there... but you keep making excuses for one of the truly murderous and devious leaders currently on the planet my friend... be careful who you hang out with
Vladdy The Peacemaker LOL
Spare me the projections - don’t put words in my mouth. I am aware that Putin is likely responsible for thousands of deaths. I don’t need his opponents to define the circumstances for me. Some people do, I guess. You repeatedly bait and switch in these convos, never addressing anything specific. Just personal jabs.
RUSSIAN MH17 SUSPECT IDENTIFIED BY 'HIGH-PITCHED' VOICE
http://www.newsweek.com/russian-mh17-suspect-identified-high-pitched-voice-946892Russia Deployed Its Trolls to Cover Up the Murder of 298 People on MH17
The same Putin-backed agency that hit the U.S. elections went into conspiracy-theory overdrive when Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine blew a Malaysian airliner out of the sky.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mh17-russia-deployed-its-trolls-to-cover-up-the-murder-of-298-people
SCHIPHOL, Netherlands (AP) — In a courtroom packed with relatives of victims killed in the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, a Dutch judge began reading the verdict Thursday in the trial of three Russians and a Ukrainian on trial for their alleged roles in the aviation disaster.
The verdict comes more than eight years after the Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was blown out of the sky over Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew members. The midair explosion and crash on July 17, 2014 happened amid a conflict between pro-Russia rebels and Ukrainian forces.
Presiding Judge Hendrik Steenhuis opened Thursday's hearing and said “the court takes the view that the MH17 was brought down by a Buk missile” launched from an agricultural field in eastern Ukraine.
In another important finding, Steenhuis said that the court believed that Russia had overall control at the time of a separatist region in eastern Ukraine, the Donetsk People's Republic. The crash scattered wreckage and bodies over farmland and fields of sunflowers.
The judge said he would go on to rule on other legal issues and the guilt or innocence of the suspects later in the hearing.
Tension was high among families ahead of the hearing.
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“The truth on the table — that is the most important thing,” said Anton Kotte, who lost his son, daughter-in-law and his 6-year-old grandson when MH17 was shot down. He said the hearing was a “D-Day” for relatives.
Robbert van Heijningen, who lost his brother, sister-in-law and nephew, called the downing “an act of barbarism” that he could never put behind him, regardless of the verdict.
“I call it a stone in my heart, and stones ... don’t disappear,” he said.
None of the suspects appeared for the trial that began in March 2020 and if they are convicted, it's unlikely they will serve any sentence anytime soon. Prosecutors have sought life sentences for all four. Prosecutors and the suspects have two weeks to file an appeal.
The Hague District Court, sitting at a high-security courtroom at Schiphol Airport, is passing judgment against a backdrop of global geopolitical upheaval caused by Russia's full-blown invasion of Ukraine in February and the nearly nine-month war it triggered.
Hundreds of family members of people killed traveled to the court to hear the verdict, bringing them back to the airport their loved ones left on the fateful day MH17 was shot down. Outside the court, planes could be heard taking off and landing nearby on a cold, gray day.
Dutch prosecutors say the missile launcher came from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, a unit of the Russian armed forces based in the Russian city of Kursk and was driven back there after MH17 was shot down.
The suspects aren't accused of firing the missile but of working together to get it to the field where it was fired. They are accused of bringing down the plane and the murder of all those on board.
The most senior defendant is Igor Girkin, a 51-year-old former colonel in Russia's Federal Security Service, or FSB. At the time of the downing, he was defense minister and commander of the armed forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic — the region where the plane was shot down. Girkin reportedly is currently involved in Russia’s war on Ukraine.
Also on trial are Girkin's subordinates, Sergey Dubinskiy, Oleg Pulatov, and Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian who prosecutors say was commander of a pro-Russia rebel combat unit and took orders directly from Dubinskiy.
Pulatov is the only one of the suspects who was represented by defense lawyers at the trial. They accused prosecutors of “tunnel vision” in basing their case on the findings of an international investigation into the downing while ignoring other possible causes.
Pulatov’s defense team also sought to discredit evidence and argued he didn’t get a fair trial.
In a video recording played in court, Pulatov insisted he was innocent and told judges: “What matters to me is that the truth is revealed. It’s important for me that my country is not blamed for this tragedy.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — An international team of investigators said Wednesday it found “strong indications” that Russian President Vladimir Putin approved the supply of heavy anti-aircraft weapons to Ukrainian separatists who shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 with a Russian missile.
However, members of the Joint Investigation Team said they had insufficient evidence to prosecute Putin or any other suspects and they suspended their 8½-year inquiry into the shooting down that killed all 298 people on board the Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
Russia has always denied any involvement in the downing of the flight over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, and refused to cooperate with the international investigation.
Dutch prosecutors said that “there are strong indications that the Russian president decided on supplying” a Buk missile system — the weapon that downed MH17 — to Ukrainian separatists.
“Although we speak of strong indications, the high bar of complete and conclusive evidence is not reached," Dutch prosecutor Digna van Boetzelaer said, adding that without Russian cooperation, “the investigation has now reached its limit. All leads have been exhausted.”
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She also said that, as head of state, Putin would have immunity from prosecution in the Netherlands. The team played a recording of an intercepted phone call in which they said Putin could be heard discussing the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
“Are we disappointed? No, because we think we came further than we had ever thought in 2014. Would we have liked to come further? Of course, yes,” said Andy Kraag of the Dutch police.
The team informed relatives of those killed in the downing of MH17 of their findings before making them public.
“There was disappointment because ... they wanted to know why MH17 was shot down," Kraag said. "We’re really clear on what has happened, but the answer to the question why MH17 was shot down still remains in Russia.”
Van Boetzelaer said that while the investigation is being suspended, phone lines will remain open for possible witnesses who may still want to provide evidence. If that happens, the inquiry could be reactivated.
Russian officials say that a decision to provide rebels with military support over the summer of 2014 was in Putin’s hands.
A decision to supply arms was even postponed for a week “because there is only one who makes a decision (…), the person who is currently at a summit in France,” the investigative team said, citing a phone conversation that was referring to Putin.
Prosecutors said that at the time Putin was at a commemoration of D-Day in France.
The announcement by the investigative team comes nearly three months after a Dutch court convicted two Russians and a Ukrainian rebel for their roles in shooting down the plane. One Russian was acquitted by the court.
None of the suspects appeared for the trial and it was unclear if the three who were found guilty of multiple murders will ever serve their sentences.
The convictions and the court's finding that the surface-to-air Buk missile came from a Russian military base were seen as a clear indication that Moscow had a role in the tragedy. Russia has always denied involvement. The Russian Foreign Ministry accused the court in November of bowing to pressure from Dutch politicians, prosecutors and the news media.
But the November convictions held that Moscow was in overall control in 2014 over the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, the separatist area of eastern Ukraine where the missile was launched. The Buk missile system came from the Russian military's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, based in the city of Kursk.
The Joint Investigation Team is made up of experts from the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Belgium and Ukraine. Most of the victims were Dutch. It had continued to investigate the crew of the missile system that brought down the plane and those who ordered its deployment in Ukraine.
As well as the criminal trial that was held in the Netherlands, the Dutch and Ukrainian governments are suing Russia at the European Court of Human Rights over its alleged role in the downing of MH17.
The findings revealed Wednesday will likely strengthen the case at the human rights court and could also be used by prosecutors at the International Criminal Court who are investigating possible war crimes in Ukraine dating back to the start of the separatist conflict.
___
Follow the AP’s coverage of the war at https://apnews.com/hub/russia-ukraine
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14