Malaysian Plane Possibly Shot Down?

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Inside of mobile missle launcher.Does it look like backwoods rebels without training could operate?

DriftingByTheStorm said:

rr165892 said:

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Inside of mobile missle launcher.Does it look like backwoods rebels without training could operate?

think you just press the green button, and then move that dial thingy next to the red lever.
most of that other stuff is just for the air conditioning system.

No it's the interface for the flux capacitor

:(

Has anyone read anything outside the mainstream on this? There is a lot of fishy shit about this madness.
No one in this thread has mentioned Russia's claims that they tracked Ukrainian jets following the plane until 3 minutes before they lost contact? Or the allegations that putin's plane was supposed to be flying that route within minutes of the crash? Or Russia's satellite maps showing a Ukraine surface-air missile system in the area on July 14, and gone on the 17? Or the alleged recording between separatists and Russian military regarding the crash that was circulated having a time signature which implies it was made BEFORE the crash (Dimi did mention some people thought it was fake...if so, whoever made it had foreknowledge).
I don't know wtf happened, and I know you guys don't trust Putin (who would, he's a politician)....but think about it. Would it benefit Putin at all to have a hand in this? If he did provide the missiles and personnel to the separatists, with the intent of blaming Ukraine, he would be forced to do something about it...it is not in his interest to escalate tensions with Ukraine. Russian statements regarding their 'evidence' against Ukraine, while direct, have had reconciliatory overtones. Contrast that with west's opportunistic push to further isolate Russia, then consider our recent installation of a puppet government, and the way our media is singing in unison in pointing the finger at Putin....I'm gonna reserve judgement on this. We should also remember that the US shot down an Iranian plane not so long ago, before we go beating war drums and calling for more support for our sanctions against Russia.
So fucked up to think that whomever is responsible for this had the intent of framing the other side. I don't see how this could not be categorized as a 'false flag'. Nearly 300 lives lost in the interest of some sick fuck's PR campaign. As if good old fashioned terrorism isn't enough any more.

Drowned Out said:

Has anyone read anything outside the mainstream on this? There is a lot of fishy shit about this madness.
No one in this thread has mentioned Russia's claims that they tracked Ukrainian jets following the plane until 3 minutes before they lost contact? Or the allegations that putin's plane was supposed to be flying that route within minutes of the crash? Or Russia's satellite maps showing a Ukraine surface-air missile system in the area on July 14, and gone on the 17? Or the alleged recording between separatists and Russian military regarding the crash that was circulated having a time signature which implies it was made BEFORE the crash (Dimi did mention some people thought it was fake...if so, whoever made it had foreknowledge).
I don't know wtf happened, and I know you guys don't trust Putin (who would, he's a politician)....but think about it. Would it benefit Putin at all to have a hand in this? If he did provide the missiles and personnel to the separatists, with the intent of blaming Ukraine, he would be forced to do something about it...it is not in his interest to escalate tensions with Ukraine. Russian statements regarding their 'evidence' against Ukraine, while direct, have had reconciliatory overtones. Contrast that with west's opportunistic push to further isolate Russia, then consider our recent installation of a puppet government, and the way our media is singing in unison in pointing the finger at Putin....I'm gonna reserve judgement on this. We should also remember that the US shot down an Iranian plane not so long ago, before we go beating war drums and calling for more support for our sanctions against Russia.
So fucked up to think that whomever is responsible for this had the intent of framing the other side. I don't see how this could not be categorized as a 'false flag'. Nearly 300 lives lost in the interest of some sick fuck's PR campaign. As if good old fashioned terrorism isn't enough any more.

Putin would have had investigators from Malaysia in there lickity split if his guys didn't fuck up.

It will be interesting if we ever hear from Igor Strelkov / Girkin (KGB separatist leader) ever again. He pretty much stuck his media foot up his babushka in the aftermath.

dignin said:

Drowned Out said:

Has anyone read anything outside the mainstream on this? There is a lot of fishy shit about this madness.
No one in this thread has mentioned Russia's claims that they tracked Ukrainian jets following the plane until 3 minutes before they lost contact? Or the allegations that putin's plane was supposed to be flying that route within minutes of the crash? Or Russia's satellite maps showing a Ukraine surface-air missile system in the area on July 14, and gone on the 17? Or the alleged recording between separatists and Russian military regarding the crash that was circulated having a time signature which implies it was made BEFORE the crash (Dimi did mention some people thought it was fake...if so, whoever made it had foreknowledge).
I don't know wtf happened, and I know you guys don't trust Putin (who would, he's a politician)....but think about it. Would it benefit Putin at all to have a hand in this? If he did provide the missiles and personnel to the separatists, with the intent of blaming Ukraine, he would be forced to do something about it...it is not in his interest to escalate tensions with Ukraine. Russian statements regarding their 'evidence' against Ukraine, while direct, have had reconciliatory overtones. Contrast that with west's opportunistic push to further isolate Russia, then consider our recent installation of a puppet government, and the way our media is singing in unison in pointing the finger at Putin....I'm gonna reserve judgement on this. We should also remember that the US shot down an Iranian plane not so long ago, before we go beating war drums and calling for more support for our sanctions against Russia.
So fucked up to think that whomever is responsible for this had the intent of framing the other side. I don't see how this could not be categorized as a 'false flag'. Nearly 300 lives lost in the interest of some sick fuck's PR campaign. As if good old fashioned terrorism isn't enough any more.

From the evidence I've seen so far it looks like it was an "accident" in that the "Ukrainian" separatists really did think they were shooting down a Ukrainian military plane. With military equipment provided most likely by Russia.

When they realized their mistake it was cover-up time.

That's the scenario that makes the most sense to me. Until more evidence comes out saying otherwise. But I can understand your lack of trust when it comes to the western media. They love a good bashing of Putin.

The fact that the crash was only a footnote in Russian media doesn't make him and his regime any less suspicious/bashable.

Drowned Out said:

Has anyone read anything outside the mainstream on this? There is a lot of fishy shit about this madness.
No one in this thread has mentioned Russia's claims that they tracked Ukrainian jets following the plane until 3 minutes before they lost contact? Or the allegations that putin's plane was supposed to be flying that route within minutes of the crash? Or Russia's satellite maps showing a Ukraine surface-air missile system in the area on July 14, and gone on the 17? Or the alleged recording between separatists and Russian military regarding the crash that was circulated having a time signature which implies it was made BEFORE the crash (Dimi did mention some people thought it was fake...if so, whoever made it had foreknowledge).
I don't know wtf happened, and I know you guys don't trust Putin (who would, he's a politician)....but think about it. Would it benefit Putin at all to have a hand in this? If he did provide the missiles and personnel to the separatists, with the intent of blaming Ukraine, he would be forced to do something about it...it is not in his interest to escalate tensions with Ukraine. Russian statements regarding their 'evidence' against Ukraine, while direct, have had reconciliatory overtones. Contrast that with west's opportunistic push to further isolate Russia, then consider our recent installation of a puppet government, and the way our media is singing in unison in pointing the finger at Putin....I'm gonna reserve judgement on this. We should also remember that the US shot down an Iranian plane not so long ago, before we go beating war drums and calling for more support for our sanctions against Russia.
So fucked up to think that whomever is responsible for this had the intent of framing the other side. I don't see how this could not be categorized as a 'false flag'. Nearly 300 lives lost in the interest of some sick fuck's PR campaign. As if good old fashioned terrorism isn't enough any more.

callen said:

Separatists would have least to gain. Ukraine most. Motive.

Motive is the thing that keeps me skeptical. We'll see how it works out.

dignin said:

Sonja_S said:

dignin said:

Drowned Out said:

Has anyone read anything outside the mainstream on this? There is a lot of fishy shit about this madness.
No one in this thread has mentioned Russia's claims that they tracked Ukrainian jets following the plane until 3 minutes before they lost contact? Or the allegations that putin's plane was supposed to be flying that route within minutes of the crash? Or Russia's satellite maps showing a Ukraine surface-air missile system in the area on July 14, and gone on the 17? Or the alleged recording between separatists and Russian military regarding the crash that was circulated having a time signature which implies it was made BEFORE the crash (Dimi did mention some people thought it was fake...if so, whoever made it had foreknowledge).
I don't know wtf happened, and I know you guys don't trust Putin (who would, he's a politician)....but think about it. Would it benefit Putin at all to have a hand in this? If he did provide the missiles and personnel to the separatists, with the intent of blaming Ukraine, he would be forced to do something about it...it is not in his interest to escalate tensions with Ukraine. Russian statements regarding their 'evidence' against Ukraine, while direct, have had reconciliatory overtones. Contrast that with west's opportunistic push to further isolate Russia, then consider our recent installation of a puppet government, and the way our media is singing in unison in pointing the finger at Putin....I'm gonna reserve judgement on this. We should also remember that the US shot down an Iranian plane not so long ago, before we go beating war drums and calling for more support for our sanctions against Russia.
So fucked up to think that whomever is responsible for this had the intent of framing the other side. I don't see how this could not be categorized as a 'false flag'. Nearly 300 lives lost in the interest of some sick fuck's PR campaign. As if good old fashioned terrorism isn't enough any more.

From the evidence I've seen so far it looks like it was an "accident" in that the "Ukrainian" separatists really did think they were shooting down a Ukrainian military plane. With military equipment provided most likely by Russia.

When they realized their mistake it was cover-up time.

That's the scenario that makes the most sense to me. Until more evidence comes out saying otherwise. But I can understand your lack of trust when it comes to the western media. They love a good bashing of Putin.

The fact that the crash was only a footnote in Russian media doesn't make him and his regime any less suspicious/bashable.

Trying to figure out where I said that.

You said you could understand lack of trust when it came to western media because they love to bash Putin. My point was that he is actually continually playing into their hands. Why would such a tragedy not be properly reported if Russia didn't have anything to do with it? This way it does of course look suspicious and is reported as such internationally.

I agree on the theory that it was a mistake by the separatists; not that it makes anything better for those lost and their loved ones, but someone knowingly shooting down civilian aircraft would be an entirely different level of sickness.

Not a native English speaker btw, please let me know if I'm not making myself clear.

What evidence are people mentioning that points to Russian involvement? I ask honestly, I've been on a houseboat for four days, haven't seen any news other than what appears in my feeds, and I don't subscribe to any corporate outlets. I read that the video had a time signature prior to the crash. Also, the flight was diverted from it's normal route. Many many other planes flew that route that day, but the one that wasn't supposed to be there is the one that gets taken out? (edit I misinterpreted what I read yesterday. The flight corridor the plane and 100+ others flew was safe. The Malaysia Airlines flight was diverted to the war zone, the only plane told to do so).
Jason - you mention Malaysian inspectors...from what I've read Putin has repeatedly called for an international investigation, and Ukraine has already tampered with flight tracking data...there are also the unaddressed accusations of fighter jets and Ukraine government missile systems mobile in the area.

There is so much more to the struggle in Ukraine than ukraine's own resources. It is THE corridor for Russian gas, a new EU partner, and a potential NATO candidate in Russia's back yard. A key part of the US 'pivot' to Asia. The behind the scenes struggles to bring Ukraine into the western fold and to control Russian gas has been going on for 20 years.