Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

Luckytwn1 said:

JimmyV said:

Luckytwn1 said:

JimmyV said:

How was playing Tel Aviv going to help? How would playing Tel Aviv help? Neil may have cancelled his show and pledged donations, but he did so only after a period of terrible publicity that the current conflict provided a ready-made excuse to mitigate. I like Neil, but I don't think he came out of this looking very good.

Neil Young did NOT cancel his show. The Israeli police cancelled it because of the unsafe conditions. Had it not been for the current violence, the show would have gone on...just as the Rolling Stones did, Justin Timberlake did, and many other of the biggest artists in the world.

Neil Young came out of it fine. He was unable to play the show but he issued an eloquent statement and made donations to worthy charities on both sides. No doubt he will be back in the future.

Exactly my point. The conflict provided good cover for him to walk away from playing a controversial show. Maybe he will be back in the future, maybe he won't. But, if hostilities had not flared up like this in the days before his scheduled show, maybe he would have gone ahead and caved to outside pressure and cancelled. Maybe he would have gone ahead and played. We'll never know.

But we do know for sure. He did not walk away from the show. The Israeli authorities canceled it due to safety concerns. Otherwise, he was playing the show, something that had been repeatedly announced prior to the cancellation by Israeli authorities. Neil Young has played in Israel before (including with PJ minus Ed) and his statement makes it clear he will return. Roger Waters is an anti-Semite who, among other things, put the Star of David on a pig as a prop. It was clear for months that Neil Young was totally ignoring Waters on the issue, just as the Stones and countless others did. Waters finally went public against Young after he admitted that Neil was ignoring him.

Drowned Out said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I don't think anyone thinks Eddie Vedder is anti-Semite. And if they did, his statement clearly shows he is not. There is a huge distinction between Ed and Roger Waters.

Roger Waters has used hateful rhetoric comparing Israel to the Nazis and suggesting they are conducting a second Holocaust (this is particularly ludicrous), put the Star of David on a pig as a prop, and is for a boycott that I don't even want to legitimize by actually discussing it seriously (fortunately the Rolling Stones, Neil Young, Justin Timberlake, and so many others do not take him seriously).

In the letter Ed says "call me naive" and I did just that the other day in talking to friends. Ed is clearly not a hater and I think today's letter shows that. Nobody should equate him with Roger Waters. But Ed has views that I disagree with and regard as overly-simplistic on this topic. Israel is surrounded by countries that would destroy it without a seconds hesitation if they could. Actions being taken now are extremely unfortunate but necessary, made abundantly clear by the fact that Hamas refused the cease fire that was proposed by the Egyptians. All civilian casualties are horrible and it is a moral quandary as Peres said yesterday but if Israel was really conducting themselves without any regard for civilians, tens of thousands of Palestinians would be dead, not 200

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Because something ed said offended you, he is naive, and being overly simplistic with his views on this topic. He has yet to address this topic. Again - the only thing that could be interpreted as singling out Israel is the stealing land bit. What else could you find naive about his statement as it pertains to the conflict?
You then openly legitimize the violence of only your side while condoning the other; you want a pass on your violence. Seems his speech was directed point blank at you, and others like you.

Drowned Out said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I don't think anyone thinks Eddie Vedder is anti-Semite. And if they did, his statement clearly shows he is not. There is a huge distinction between Ed and Roger Waters.

Roger Waters has used hateful rhetoric comparing Israel to the Nazis and suggesting they are conducting a second Holocaust (this is particularly ludicrous), put the Star of David on a pig as a prop, and is for a boycott that I don't even want to legitimize by actually discussing it seriously (fortunately the Rolling Stones, Neil Young, Justin Timberlake, and so many others do not take him seriously).

In the letter Ed says "call me naive" and I did just that the other day in talking to friends. Ed is clearly not a hater and I think today's letter shows that. Nobody should equate him with Roger Waters. But Ed has views that I disagree with and regard as overly-simplistic on this topic. Israel is surrounded by countries that would destroy it without a seconds hesitation if they could. Actions being taken now are extremely unfortunate but necessary, made abundantly clear by the fact that Hamas refused the cease fire that was proposed by the Egyptians. All civilian casualties are horrible and it is a moral quandary as Peres said yesterday but if Israel was really conducting themselves without any regard for civilians, tens of thousands of Palestinians would be dead, not 200

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Because something ed said offended you, he is naive, and being overly simplistic with his views on this topic. He has yet to address this topic. Again - the only thing that could be interpreted as singling out Israel is the stealing land bit. What else could you find naive about his statement as it pertains to the conflict?
You then openly legitimize the violence of only your side while condoning the other; you want a pass on your violence. Seems his speech was directed point blank at you, and others like you.

eldarion75 said:

Luckytwn1 said:

eldarion75 said:

you know that 'oh noooo' feeling when one of your team scores an own goal? thats what this feels like...
Ed had only two realistic options in all this. Say fuckin nothing and stand by it. Or nail his colours to the mast and instead name all the countries he meant and both would have gotten him grief but respect too for expanding on his rant(which i agreed with verbatim).

Instead he chose the worst option. He did an immense backpeddalling 'here's what I meant to say' and for that he's going to get shit from every direction. I love the guy and even I dont buy it. And it'll especially come from the pro Israel side. They're gonna dance all over him for this. He's basically backed down and now is going to be accused of being a coward as well as an anti Semite and all those other bullshit words those guys like throwing at anyone who disagrees with them. Shouldn't have opened his mouth to reply to it at all. heart was in the right place as always, but stand by it and own it, name and shame and expand to include al those countries(including his own) or say nothing and his point still would stand.


him replying to this was poorly advised.

I don't think anyone thinks Eddie Vedder is anti-Semite. And if they did, his statement clearly shows he is not. There is a huge distinction between Ed and Roger Waters.

Roger Waters has used hateful rhetoric comparing Israel to the Nazis and suggesting they are conducting a second Holocaust (this is particularly ludicrous), put the Star of David on a pig as a prop, and is for a boycott that I don't even want to legitimize by actually discussing it seriously (fortunately the Rolling Stones, Neil Young, Justin Timberlake, and so many others do not take him seriously).

In the letter Ed says "call me naive" and I did just that the other day in talking to friends. Ed is clearly not a hater and I think today's letter shows that. Nobody should equate him with Roger Waters. But Ed has views that I disagree with and regard as overly-simplistic on this topic. Israel is surrounded by countries that would destroy it without a seconds hesitation if they could. Actions being taken now are extremely unfortunate but necessary, made abundantly clear by the fact that Hamas refused the cease fire that was proposed by the Egyptians. All civilian casualties are horrible and it is a moral quandary as Peres said yesterday but if Israel was really conducting themselves without any regard for civilians, tens of thousands of Palestinians would be dead, not 200.

the last 5 or 6 lines of your post just made me wretch..

so it's neccessary? al this is neccassary? giving people a few minutes warning before a bomb takes their house and anyone in it out?

youre making excuses fella..this is genocide..no other way to descrbe it. Israel has the best equipped army in the world(The US still has the receipts thats why they wont get involved) against a few people on the ground fighting for their homeland back.,...you wouldnt fight back if it was your country?

nobody ever seems to be able to answer that

Ed Vedder said:

The majority of humans on this planet are more consumed by the
pursuit of love, health, family, food and shelter than any kind of war.

With all the global achievements in modern technology,
enhanced communication and information devices, cracking the
human genome, land rovers on Mars etc., do we really have to
resign ourselves to the devastating reality that conflict will be
resolved with bombs, murder and acts of barbarism?

We are such a remarkable species. Capable of creating beauty.
Capable of awe-inspiring advancements. We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.
.

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

eldarion75 said:

you know that 'oh noooo' feeling when one of your team scores an own goal? thats what this feels like...
Ed had only two realistic options in all this. Say fuckin nothing and stand by it. Or nail his colours to the mast and instead name all the countries he meant and both would have gotten him grief but respect too for expanding on his rant(which i agreed with verbatim).

Instead he chose the worst option. He did an immense backpeddalling 'here's what I meant to say' and for that he's going to get shit from every direction. I love the guy and even I dont buy it. And it'll especially come from the pro Israel side. They're gonna dance all over him for this. He's basically backed down and now is going to be accused of being a coward as well as an anti Semite and all those other bullshit words those guys like throwing at anyone who disagrees with them. Shouldn't have opened his mouth to reply to it at all. heart was in the right place as always, but stand by it and own it, name and shame and expand to include al those countries(including his own) or say nothing and his point still would stand.


him replying to this was poorly advised.