Bowe Bergdahl

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  • Posts: 4,741
    mattsl1983 said:



    I would tend to disagree. I don't think approval rating should mean we bypass congress and let one person make an "executive decision" outside of the laws of our land. The whole reason we have the electoral vote for president and districts for congress is to ensure the American people don't "drink the kook aide" and there is a checks and balances system. It's like parents, of course if they allowed you to do everything you wanted as a kid they would have been the most approved parents ever. But would that have been in your best interest? Probably not.

    I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.

    yes, such a scary gubberment....it's terrifying that a successful effort was put forth to bring a POW home...

    BOO!!!

  • Posts: 6,388
    edited June 2014
    mattsl1983 said:

    show previous quotes
    I would tend to disagree. I don't think approval rating should mean we bypass congress and let one person make an "executive decision" outside of the laws of our land. The whole reason we have the electoral vote for president and districts for congress is to ensure the American people don't "drink the kook aide" and there is a checks and balances system. It's like parents, of course if they allowed you to do everything you wanted as a kid they would have been the most approved parents ever. But would that have been in your best interest? Probably not.

    I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.
    We do need that check regardless of how inafective congress is at this point.

    Did you like W?
    Post edited by callen on
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  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.

    he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".

    fucking hypocrites.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 1,348
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.

    he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".

    fucking hypocrites.

    He needed to come home, but needs to answer some questions. It was well known to people within the military that he walked off post. I feel getting him home was the right thing, but he will have to answer for his walking off.
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  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    why did he walk off? was he suffering from untreated ptsd? was he disillusioned with the war and the mission?

    none of that matters.

    what matters is that in the soldiers' creeds of the respective branches of service it is clearly states that they will never leave a fallen comrade. obama leaving this guy there to rot is abandoning an american serviceman. the thought that people would encourage obama to leave an american citizen overseas because he might have wandered off is galling to me. feeling that way does not make one a patriot. it makes them an asshole.

    http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/military-creeds.html

    Army and Army National Guard

    The Soldier's Creed

    I am an American Soldier.
    I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

    I will always place the mission first.
    I will never accept defeat.
    I will never quit.
    I will never leave a fallen comrade.

    I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
    I am an expert and I am a professional.
    I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
    I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
    I am an American Soldier.


    Air Force
    Airman's Creed

    I am an American Airman.
    I am a Warrior.
    I have answered my Nation’s call.
    I am an American Airman.
    My mission is to Fly, Fight, and Win.
    I am faithful to a Proud Heritage,
    A Tradition of Honor,
    And a Legacy of Valor.
    I am an American Airman.
    Guardian of Freedom and Justice,
    My Nation’s Sword and Shield,
    Its Sentry and Avenger.
    I defend my Country with my Life.
    I am an American Airman.
    Wingman, Leader, Warrior.
    I will never leave an Airman behind,
    I will never falter,
    And I will not fail.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 2,365
    edited June 2014
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.

    he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".

    fucking hypocrites.

    CNN has had a lot of coverage on this story and has reported on extensively about his "desertion" and interviewed soldiers claiming he deserted. It's not only fox news! (Keep in mind the news agencies got the desertion claims from Bergdalhs fellow soldiers. They didn't just pull that out of thin air.)
    Obama did this on his own because he knew he wouldn't have support from congress. That's both republicans and democrats!
    I'm not opposed to bringing him home. I'm opposed to what we gave up for him. 6 other soldiers lives and 5 of the worst Taliban terrorists seems like an awful lot. It seems they dictated the negotiations and we gave into them.
    I put myself in the shoes of the 6 families who lost their loved ones for him. If I were to find out that my son died trying to bring home another soldier that was captured I would be proud of him. If I were to find out he died searching for someone that left on his own free will??? I would be very upset!!!
    I hope Bowe gets his day in court and that all the truth is told! If found innocent then he should be free. If found guilty? Death!
    So in my opinion, any american who deserts and risks the lives of other americans is not an american!
    Post edited by primussucks on
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  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    swiftboating an american soldier is not cool. it is not fair.

    you have not heard his story. he has testified nothing yet.

    and some of those soldiers interviewed have been discharged with discharges "other than honorable."

    the media is shaping this story and is trying the man without any sort of due process.

    other soldiers that knew he left failed to report him leaving to superiors in a timely fashion. it is impossible to prove desertion when it was not reported promptly.

    you can't prove desertion under UCMJ Article 85, because you cannot prove he intended to leave without coming back.

    UCMJ Article 85 states:

    a) Any member of the armed forces who€“
    (1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

    (2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

    (3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.

    http://www.militarylawyers.com/Desertion.html
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 711
    Callen, I simply stated regardless of if you support the president or not, it's not right for the president to overstep laws. Regardless of the situation. If you are okay with that and have no problem with a single person in an elected position doing what they want outside the law, then yes, I fear the way our government is headed. I have no idea what you asking me if I like W. Has to do with anything.

    Gimmesometruth, for me being a former officer in the Navy, it's nice that you post the air force and army creed as your rebutle. But there exists a thing called the 11 general orders. Which actually are your basic general orders.

    1. To take charge of this post and all government property in view.
    2. To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert, and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing.
    3. To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce.
    4. To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guard house than my own.
    5. To quit my post only when properly relieved.
    6. To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the commanding officer, field officer of the day, officer of the day, and officers and petty officers of the watch.
    7. To talk to no one except in line of duty.
    8. To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder.
    9. To call the petty officer of the watch in any case not covered by instructions.
    10. To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.
    11. To be especially watchful at night, and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post, and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.

    Every service member, officer or enlisted, are to maintain these 11 orders. I can see 4 of which he failed to obey and ignored. General orders > any creed.

    Ucmj, article 92, punishment (1) Violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

    I am going off what the other soldiers in his command have come out and said. Not what this political party is saying or that one is. He abandoned his post and either surrendered/ or was captured.
  • Posts: 711
    He went AWOL, which is a punishable action. I agree with you, we can't determine if he left with the intent to return at some point, or with no intention to return. Him becoming a prisoner puts desertion into a grey area. But what isn't grey is that he left his post, the place he was supposed to be at, awol. So regardless of his intentions of maybe returning or not, he still violated the UCMJ. You can not announce him as being innocent.
  • Posts: 4,741
    photo bergdahl720_zpse505ed28.png
  • Posts: 6,388
    mattsl1983 said:

    Callen, I simply stated regardless of if you support the president or not, it's not right for the president to overstep laws. Regardless of the situation. If you are okay with that and have no problem with a single person in an elected position doing what they want outside the law, then yes, I fear the way our government is headed. I have no idea what you asking me if I like W. Has to do with anything.

    .

    Was agreeing with you. Sure we agree on a lot.

    As to W, you said you didn't like Obama was just seeing if you like W.
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  • Posts: 13,576
    If John Gotti or Carlo Gambino had walked away from their families as young men would we think them heroes or cowards? Just food for thought.
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  • I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    LOL, that comic. Remote mountainous regions...

    I'm not saying he shouldn't have been rescued, I'm saying that he shouldn't have been traded for with the five that were sent that way.
  • Posts: 42,116
    No, this is what you said:
    unsung said:

    They should have left him to rot.

    Funny how you guys screaming about your rights being trampled on are the first ones to toss them aside when something happens that doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of what democracy is. So much for Bergdalh's constitutional rights, huh?

    Peace.
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  • Posts: 6,388
    rgambs said:

    If John Gotti or Carlo Gambino had walked away from their families as young men would we think them heroes or cowards? Just food for thought.

    Brilliant.
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  • Posts: 6,388
    unsung said:

    LOL, that comic. Remote mountainous regions...

    I'm not saying he shouldn't have been rescued, I'm saying that he shouldn't have been traded for with the five that were sent that way.

    Ah we got the fives numbers and likely they will give us more intel by being free.
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  • I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    No, this is what you said:

    show previous quotes
    Funny how you guys screaming about your rights being trampled on are the first ones to toss them aside when something happens that doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of what democracy is. So much for Bergdalh's constitutional rights, huh?

    Peace.
    I would have left him there instead of giving up those five based on what we know, he was a deserter. I would have rescued him if we had an opportunity to do so, then I would have brought him up on charges.

  • Posts: 12,225
    edited June 2014
    Let's get some facts injected into this conversation...
    First off...
    Can the people who are saying the 5 Taliban captors are 'The Worst' of the bunch held in Camp Delta please provide some background on each of them? I mean, things like the circumstances of their capture, their role in the Taliban hierarchy, acts directly attributed to them, etc... If you are one of the people that are saying they are the worst... where are you getting this information? And can you please, make it available to the rest of us so we can make our own assessments?
    I don't know who these fucking guys are... i never heard of them before. I have no idea how bad or worse they are. But, there are people claiming they are the 5 worst of the prisoners. What do you know... that I don't? Show me how you reached this conclusion.
    Personally... knowing what our C.I.A. is capable of... they rank these guys. I'm pretty sure they are not the worst of the Guantanamo crowd. They are bad... yeah, I agree with that. But, the Worst? The C.I.A. is going to let the worst ones out first? Do you really believe that?
    ...
    Also... I have to ask again...
    What happens to the rest of the inmates at Camp Delta after the War in Afghanistan winds down? Don't we have to set them free... unconditionally? Aren't they Prisoners Of War? I mean, they were not proven guilty of anything by any of the courts systems... and some remain without being charged with anything. We have to let them go, right? Or do we turn into Vladimir Putin and hold them as political prisoners... forever?
    The only option to keep them held prisoner is to have the War in Afghanistan continue... forever. Is that what we want?
    Post edited by Cosmo on
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  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    unsung said:

    show previous quotes
    I would have left him there instead of giving up those five based on what we know, he was a deserter. I would have rescued him if we had an opportunity to do so, then I would have brought him up on charges.

    you said you would leave him there to rot, then you said you would have rescued him if given an opportunity.

    which is it?

    you have right to a gun, this guy has his right to due process.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Cosmo said:

    Let's get some facts injected into this conversation...
    First off...
    Can the people who are saying the 5 Taliban captors are 'The Worst' of the bunch held in Camp Delta please provide some background on each of them? I mean, things like the circumstances of their capture, their role in the Taliban hierarchy, acts directly attributed to them, etc... If you are one of the people that are saying they are the worst... where are you getting this information? And can you please, make it available to the rest of us so we can make our own assessments?
    I don't know who these fucking guys are... i never heard of them before. I have no idea how bad or worse they are. But, there are people claiming they are the 5 worst of the prisoners. What do you know... that I don't? Show me how you reached this conclusion.
    Personally... knowing what our C.I.A. is capable of... they rank these guys. I'm pretty sure they are not the worst of the Guantanamo crowd. They are bad... yeah, I agree with that. But, the Worst? The C.I.A. is going to let the worst ones out first? Do you really believe that?
    ...
    Also... I have to ask again...
    What happens to the rest of the inmates at Camp Delta after the War in Afghanistan winds down? Don't we have to set them free... unconditionally? Aren't they Prisoners Of War? I mean, they were not proven guilty of anything by any of the courts systems... and some remain without being charged with anything. We have to let them go, right? Or do we turn into Vladimir Putin and hold them as political prisoners... forever?
    The only option to keep them held prisoner is to have the War in Afghanistan continue... forever. Is that what we want?

    obama tried to close gitmo and bring some of these guys here to our supermax prisons to face trial, but since he could not close gitmo by executive order, he went through congress and they blocked it. the gop blocked it. most likely because they could not let obama keep his promise to close gitmo at any cost.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."

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