I heard he was tortured by the talibans, and that his family has received death threats because of him being saved. I think it's horrible..
The mentality of Americans can be nuts at times. I don't get it either.
We send soldier to do battle. He see's child get run over by is truck, he see's horrible things that could cause any normal human to lose it yet we want to treat him as the enemy.
The President notified congress about Osama, why not this. I mean if he was told Bergdahl was getting worse whatever, don't you think he could of at least phoned Feinstein too? She is the head of the Intel committee and a Democrat. A courtesy call to her might of helped with that. What will be the next shiny object next week?
Yes, shame on Obama for negotiating with terrorists.
However, look at the situation. If he alerted Congress, then they would've killed Bergdahl. If he did nothing, Bergdahl was going to become even worse, psychologically. I heard that he is already really psychologically messed up.
So, I am happy the guy is safe, but I am mad about how it was done. But, now that he is back he is also safe. Those 5 released will surely die in the near future. So we won, in a sense.
I don't want it to sound like I am backing Obama on this one, but I guarantee you if Bush or a Republican did this then there would not be much fuss over it.
I just hope we put trackers in those 5 terrorists so that a missile can greet them soon.
Because the Taliban said if he notified Congress then they would've killed Bergdahl. If he did notify them, that info may or may not have been leaked to the public, and that is risky, and if it did then they would've killed Bergdahl.
I'd like to know the source of this info. Why would telling Congress make the Taliban want to kill Bergdahl all of a sudden after 5 years?? Then the Taliban doesn't get their 5 guys back if they kill him. That info makes zero sense in every way!
Summerfest 7/8/95 Missoula 6/20/98 Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98 Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03 Alpine Valley 6/21/03 Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10 Alpine Valley x2 2011 Wrigley 2013 Milwaukee 14 Telluride 16
@cosmo the media is getting their information from Bergdalhs fellow soldiers. How would staceb 10 feel if his/her son was one of the 6 that died looking for him?
... Wouldn't it all depend on whether he was killed while trying to rescue a fellow soldier... or if he was killed looking for a deserter? ... You don't know what the truth is... just like I don't know what the truth is. All we are getting right now is chatter. Remember Pat Tillman? He was a marketed as a clear justification of war... until the facts emerged and we learned he was killed by freidly fire. Jessica Lynch? Same thing. It has nothing to do about the soldiers, Tillman and Lynch... and everything to do with the selling of a political vantage point. ... How about we quit forming our opinions based upon our politiacal party affiliations and base it on the facts. Facts that have not made it to the light of day, yet. Facts and truth are often times, very tough to swallow. But, it is better to know the truth... right?
I guess I'm guilty of putting a lot of trust in his fellow soldiers that insist he's a deserter. Sorry but I believe them. They seem pretty upset about it for a reason. I didn't realize you knew what party I'm associated with? You knew that I consider myself an independent and that I voted for Obama in 2008? I find it hilarious that in the same paragraph you make an assumption about me and then talk about getting our facts right!
... The point I was expressing in the last paragraph is that we (everyone in America) need to quit politicizing everything along the two political party lines. That is what is happening here... this prisoner swap is being politicized and people are buying into it. ... I suppose I need to fully qualify my comments to some readers by stating that when I use the term, 'You' or 'We'... I am not speaking to one individual in particular, rather, I am addressing a broader audience in general terms. Such as, if you (posed to general readers) form all of your (refering to the same general audience) opinion based upon a politial party agenda... then, you (the person that does form their opinions soley based upon political partisanship) are a partisan lacky dog that the politicians love to have in their pocket. It is a common practice used in general discussion within an open forum. I thought that most people understood this basic concept. I hope I don't have to explain this concept of expressing views in general terms to every person who believes themselves to be the only person involved in the discussion. I hope this clarifies things.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I have a question... If people believe Congress should be notifited of everything... ... Why does Congress historically get approval ratings registering in the teens? Isn't it like making sure the kid who never gets a grade higher than 12% (which means he needs to improve by an additional 48% just to achieve an 'F' on his Report Card) should be kept in the loop on everything? I understand te whole 'Checks and Balances' thing... but, I also understand what a no good pile of shit our Congress is.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Isn't congress basically in place to "police" our president so to speak? To prevent a president from making bad knee jerk decisions in some cases? Congress' approval ratings have for the most part only been poor during this administration. Which is likely the result of people of this country seeing the lack of communication and stubbornness on both sides. This country needs a 3rd party now more then ever because right now these 2 parties are an embarrassment. Voting over the last decade has been trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils. There needs to be a balance! Not far left and not far right but somewhere in between. Bill Clinton had that balance.
Summerfest 7/8/95 Missoula 6/20/98 Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98 Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03 Alpine Valley 6/21/03 Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10 Alpine Valley x2 2011 Wrigley 2013 Milwaukee 14 Telluride 16
Isn't congress basically in place to "police" our president so to speak? To prevent a president from making bad knee jerk decisions in some cases? Congress' approval ratings have for the most part only been poor during this administration. Which is likely the result of people of this country seeing the lack of communication and stubbornness on both sides. This country needs a 3rd party now more then ever because right now these 2 parties are an embarrassment. Voting over the last decade has been trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils. There needs to be a balance! Not far left and not far right but somewhere in between. Bill Clinton had that balance.
... Actually... Congress has historically gotten poor approval ratings. They didn't just start being do-nothing pieces of shit on 20January2009. There were lobbyists buying our politicians before 2009... I'm pretty sure of that. They have been do nothing pieces of shit throughout our history. And America doesn't need a Third Party... Americans just need to quit being partisan political puppets and quit voting for and supporting people and agendas based upon the letters, (D) and (R). Americans hold Term Limits in their hands, but are too dumb to use them. All Americans need to do is look at the ballots... look for the word, 'Incumbant' next to the person's name... and DON'T CHECK THAT BOX. ... For example... how many times have you heard someone say, "Vote them all out"... then, express their support for Rand Paul? They will come up with all kinds of rationale and justification... but, in the end... it's just excuses. Because for every person willing to vote them all out, except Paul... there is a person who will say, 'except Pelosi' or 'except Reid' or 'except Chambliss'. People only want everyone else's guy voted out... not theirs. Politicians love how fucking stupid we are. Politicians will hate us if we were collectively intelligent... something they know... we will never become.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The President notified congress about Osama, why not this. I mean if he was told Bergdahl was getting worse whatever, don't you think he could of at least phoned Feinstein too? She is the head of the Intel committee and a Democrat. A courtesy call to her might of helped with that. What will be the next shiny object next week?
Yes, shame on Obama for negotiating with terrorists.
However, look at the situation. If he alerted Congress, then they would've killed Bergdahl. If he did nothing, Bergdahl was going to become even worse, psychologically. I heard that he is already really psychologically messed up.
So, I am happy the guy is safe, but I am mad about how it was done. But, now that he is back he is also safe. Those 5 released will surely die in the near future. So we won, in a sense.
I don't want it to sound like I am backing Obama on this one, but I guarantee you if Bush or a Republican did this then there would not be much fuss over it.
I just hope we put trackers in those 5 terrorists so that a missile can greet them soon.
Because the Taliban said if he notified Congress then they would've killed Bergdahl. If he did notify them, that info may or may not have been leaked to the public, and that is risky, and if it did then they would've killed Bergdahl.
I'd like to know the source of this info. Why would telling Congress make the Taliban want to kill Bergdahl all of a sudden after 5 years?? Then the Taliban doesn't get their 5 guys back if they kill him. That info makes zero sense in every way!
This is not where I had originally heard it, but this explains that they didn't want the info leaked because they believed he would have been killed.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense why they'd kill him because then they indeed would not get their 5 guys back. That was my first thought when I first heard it, too. But that info I stated was announced around the time it happened, which we all know early reports are usually wrong. That info is stated in the last paragraph, but doesn't explain why.
~Carter~
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
Like I said earlier he could of notified SEN Feinstein with a phone call to keep the top democratic senator on the intelligence committee in the loop of the swap. In my opinion he did not because the POTUS knew what the answer would be. As a former soldier he should have been brought home. Now he needs to answer some questions. That there is my other issue with this. Granted it was a positive story for the parents, but if he was suspected as a deserter maybe the POTUS should not have had the ceremony in the rose garden, again my opinion. Maybe the POTUS did not listen to his advisors or maybe his advisors failed to tell him that Berghdal might have left on his own will.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Isn't congress basically in place to "police" our president so to speak? To prevent a president from making bad knee jerk decisions in some cases? Congress' approval ratings have for the most part only been poor during this administration. Which is likely the result of people of this country seeing the lack of communication and stubbornness on both sides. This country needs a 3rd party now more then ever because right now these 2 parties are an embarrassment. Voting over the last decade has been trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils. There needs to be a balance! Not far left and not far right but somewhere in between. Bill Clinton had that balance.
... Actually... Congress has historically gotten poor approval ratings. They didn't just start being do-nothing pieces of shit on 20January2009. There were lobbyists buying our politicians before 2009... I'm pretty sure of that. They have been do nothing pieces of shit throughout our history. And America doesn't need a Third Party... Americans just need to quit being partisan political puppets and quit voting for and supporting people and agendas based upon the letters, (D) and (R). Americans hold Term Limits in their hands, but are too dumb to use them. All Americans need to do is look at the ballots... look for the word, 'Incumbant' next to the person's name... and DON'T CHECK THAT BOX. ... For example... how many times have you heard someone say, "Vote them all out"... then, express their support for Rand Paul? They will come up with all kinds of rationale and justification... but, in the end... it's just excuses. Because for every person willing to vote them all out, except Paul... there is a person who will say, 'except Pelosi' or 'except Reid' or 'except Chambliss'. People only want everyone else's guy voted out... not theirs. Politicians love how fucking stupid we are. Politicians will hate us if we were collectively intelligent... something they know... we will never become.
I would tend to disagree. I don't think approval rating should mean we bypass congress and let one person make an "executive decision" outside of the laws of our land. The whole reason we have the electoral vote for president and districts for congress is to ensure the American people don't "drink the kook aide" and there is a checks and balances system. It's like parents, of course if they allowed you to do everything you wanted as a kid they would have been the most approved parents ever. But would that have been in your best interest? Probably not.
I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.
I would tend to disagree. I don't think approval rating should mean we bypass congress and let one person make an "executive decision" outside of the laws of our land. The whole reason we have the electoral vote for president and districts for congress is to ensure the American people don't "drink the kook aide" and there is a checks and balances system. It's like parents, of course if they allowed you to do everything you wanted as a kid they would have been the most approved parents ever. But would that have been in your best interest? Probably not.
I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.
yes, such a scary gubberment....it's terrifying that a successful effort was put forth to bring a POW home...
Isn't congress basically in place to "police" our president so to speak? To prevent a president from making bad knee jerk decisions in some cases? Congress' approval ratings have for the most part only been poor during this administration. Which is likely the result of people of this country seeing the lack of communication and stubbornness on both sides. This country needs a 3rd party now more then ever because right now these 2 parties are an embarrassment. Voting over the last decade has been trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils. There needs to be a balance! Not far left and not far right but somewhere in between. Bill Clinton had that balance.
... Actually... Congress has historically gotten poor approval ratings. They didn't just start being do-nothing pieces of shit on 20January2009. There were lobbyists buying our politicians before 2009... I'm pretty sure of that. They have been do nothing pieces of shit throughout our history. And America doesn't need a Third Party... Americans just need to quit being partisan political puppets and quit voting for and supporting people and agendas based upon the letters, (D) and (R). Americans hold Term Limits in their hands, but are too dumb to use them. All Americans need to do is look at the ballots... look for the word, 'Incumbant' next to the person's name... and DON'T CHECK THAT BOX. ... For example... how many times have you heard someone say, "Vote them all out"... then, express their support for Rand Paul? They will come up with all kinds of rationale and justification... but, in the end... it's just excuses. Because for every person willing to vote them all out, except Paul... there is a person who will say, 'except Pelosi' or 'except Reid' or 'except Chambliss'. People only want everyone else's guy voted out... not theirs. Politicians love how fucking stupid we are. Politicians will hate us if we were collectively intelligent... something they know... we will never become.
I would tend to disagree. I don't think approval rating should mean we bypass congress and let one person make an "executive decision" outside of the laws of our land. The whole reason we have the electoral vote for president and districts for congress is to ensure the American people don't "drink the kook aide" and there is a checks and balances system. It's like parents, of course if they allowed you to do everything you wanted as a kid they would have been the most approved parents ever. But would that have been in your best interest? Probably not.
I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.
We do need that check regardless of how inafective congress is at this point.
any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.
he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".
fucking hypocrites.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.
he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".
fucking hypocrites.
He needed to come home, but needs to answer some questions. It was well known to people within the military that he walked off post. I feel getting him home was the right thing, but he will have to answer for his walking off.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
why did he walk off? was he suffering from untreated ptsd? was he disillusioned with the war and the mission?
none of that matters.
what matters is that in the soldiers' creeds of the respective branches of service it is clearly states that they will never leave a fallen comrade. obama leaving this guy there to rot is abandoning an american serviceman. the thought that people would encourage obama to leave an american citizen overseas because he might have wandered off is galling to me. feeling that way does not make one a patriot. it makes them an asshole.
I am an American Soldier. I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first. I will never accept defeat. I will never quit. I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself. I am an expert and I am a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat. I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life. I am an American Soldier.
Air Force Airman's Creed
I am an American Airman. I am a Warrior. I have answered my Nation’s call. I am an American Airman. My mission is to Fly, Fight, and Win. I am faithful to a Proud Heritage, A Tradition of Honor, And a Legacy of Valor. I am an American Airman. Guardian of Freedom and Justice, My Nation’s Sword and Shield, Its Sentry and Avenger. I defend my Country with my Life. I am an American Airman. Wingman, Leader, Warrior. I will never leave an Airman behind, I will never falter, And I will not fail.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
any american who opposes making a deal to bring home our only pow in a foreign land is not an american.
he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".
fucking hypocrites.
CNN has had a lot of coverage on this story and has reported on extensively about his "desertion" and interviewed soldiers claiming he deserted. It's not only fox news! (Keep in mind the news agencies got the desertion claims from Bergdalhs fellow soldiers. They didn't just pull that out of thin air.) Obama did this on his own because he knew he wouldn't have support from congress. That's both republicans and democrats! I'm not opposed to bringing him home. I'm opposed to what we gave up for him. 6 other soldiers lives and 5 of the worst Taliban terrorists seems like an awful lot. It seems they dictated the negotiations and we gave into them. I put myself in the shoes of the 6 families who lost their loved ones for him. If I were to find out that my son died trying to bring home another soldier that was captured I would be proud of him. If I were to find out he died searching for someone that left on his own free will??? I would be very upset!!! I hope Bowe gets his day in court and that all the truth is told! If found innocent then he should be free. If found guilty? Death! So in my opinion, any american who deserts and risks the lives of other americans is not an american!
Post edited by primussucks on
Summerfest 7/8/95 Missoula 6/20/98 Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98 Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03 Alpine Valley 6/21/03 Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10 Alpine Valley x2 2011 Wrigley 2013 Milwaukee 14 Telluride 16
swiftboating an american soldier is not cool. it is not fair.
you have not heard his story. he has testified nothing yet.
and some of those soldiers interviewed have been discharged with discharges "other than honorable."
the media is shaping this story and is trying the man without any sort of due process.
other soldiers that knew he left failed to report him leaving to superiors in a timely fashion. it is impossible to prove desertion when it was not reported promptly.
you can't prove desertion under UCMJ Article 85, because you cannot prove he intended to leave without coming back.
UCMJ Article 85 states:
a) Any member of the armed forces who (1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.
Callen, I simply stated regardless of if you support the president or not, it's not right for the president to overstep laws. Regardless of the situation. If you are okay with that and have no problem with a single person in an elected position doing what they want outside the law, then yes, I fear the way our government is headed. I have no idea what you asking me if I like W. Has to do with anything.
Gimmesometruth, for me being a former officer in the Navy, it's nice that you post the air force and army creed as your rebutle. But there exists a thing called the 11 general orders. Which actually are your basic general orders.
1. To take charge of this post and all government property in view. 2. To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert, and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing. 3. To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce. 4. To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guard house than my own. 5. To quit my post only when properly relieved. 6. To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the commanding officer, field officer of the day, officer of the day, and officers and petty officers of the watch. 7. To talk to no one except in line of duty. 8. To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder. 9. To call the petty officer of the watch in any case not covered by instructions. 10. To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased. 11. To be especially watchful at night, and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post, and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.
Every service member, officer or enlisted, are to maintain these 11 orders. I can see 4 of which he failed to obey and ignored. General orders > any creed.
Ucmj, article 92, punishment (1) Violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
I am going off what the other soldiers in his command have come out and said. Not what this political party is saying or that one is. He abandoned his post and either surrendered/ or was captured.
He went AWOL, which is a punishable action. I agree with you, we can't determine if he left with the intent to return at some point, or with no intention to return. Him becoming a prisoner puts desertion into a grey area. But what isn't grey is that he left his post, the place he was supposed to be at, awol. So regardless of his intentions of maybe returning or not, he still violated the UCMJ. You can not announce him as being innocent.
Callen, I simply stated regardless of if you support the president or not, it's not right for the president to overstep laws. Regardless of the situation. If you are okay with that and have no problem with a single person in an elected position doing what they want outside the law, then yes, I fear the way our government is headed. I have no idea what you asking me if I like W. Has to do with anything.
.
Was agreeing with you. Sure we agree on a lot.
As to W, you said you didn't like Obama was just seeing if you like W.
Funny how you guys screaming about your rights being trampled on are the first ones to toss them aside when something happens that doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of what democracy is. So much for Bergdalh's constitutional rights, huh?
Funny how you guys screaming about your rights being trampled on are the first ones to toss them aside when something happens that doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of what democracy is. So much for Bergdalh's constitutional rights, huh?
Peace.
I would have left him there instead of giving up those five based on what we know, he was a deserter. I would have rescued him if we had an opportunity to do so, then I would have brought him up on charges.
Let's get some facts injected into this conversation... First off... Can the people who are saying the 5 Taliban captors are 'The Worst' of the bunch held in Camp Delta please provide some background on each of them? I mean, things like the circumstances of their capture, their role in the Taliban hierarchy, acts directly attributed to them, etc... If you are one of the people that are saying they are the worst... where are you getting this information? And can you please, make it available to the rest of us so we can make our own assessments? I don't know who these fucking guys are... i never heard of them before. I have no idea how bad or worse they are. But, there are people claiming they are the 5 worst of the prisoners. What do you know... that I don't? Show me how you reached this conclusion. Personally... knowing what our C.I.A. is capable of... they rank these guys. I'm pretty sure they are not the worst of the Guantanamo crowd. They are bad... yeah, I agree with that. But, the Worst? The C.I.A. is going to let the worst ones out first? Do you really believe that? ... Also... I have to ask again... What happens to the rest of the inmates at Camp Delta after the War in Afghanistan winds down? Don't we have to set them free... unconditionally? Aren't they Prisoners Of War? I mean, they were not proven guilty of anything by any of the courts systems... and some remain without being charged with anything. We have to let them go, right? Or do we turn into Vladimir Putin and hold them as political prisoners... forever? The only option to keep them held prisoner is to have the War in Afghanistan continue... forever. Is that what we want?
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Funny how you guys screaming about your rights being trampled on are the first ones to toss them aside when something happens that doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions of what democracy is. So much for Bergdalh's constitutional rights, huh?
Peace.
I would have left him there instead of giving up those five based on what we know, he was a deserter. I would have rescued him if we had an opportunity to do so, then I would have brought him up on charges.
you said you would leave him there to rot, then you said you would have rescued him if given an opportunity.
which is it?
you have right to a gun, this guy has his right to due process.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Let's get some facts injected into this conversation... First off... Can the people who are saying the 5 Taliban captors are 'The Worst' of the bunch held in Camp Delta please provide some background on each of them? I mean, things like the circumstances of their capture, their role in the Taliban hierarchy, acts directly attributed to them, etc... If you are one of the people that are saying they are the worst... where are you getting this information? And can you please, make it available to the rest of us so we can make our own assessments? I don't know who these fucking guys are... i never heard of them before. I have no idea how bad or worse they are. But, there are people claiming they are the 5 worst of the prisoners. What do you know... that I don't? Show me how you reached this conclusion. Personally... knowing what our C.I.A. is capable of... they rank these guys. I'm pretty sure they are not the worst of the Guantanamo crowd. They are bad... yeah, I agree with that. But, the Worst? The C.I.A. is going to let the worst ones out first? Do you really believe that? ... Also... I have to ask again... What happens to the rest of the inmates at Camp Delta after the War in Afghanistan winds down? Don't we have to set them free... unconditionally? Aren't they Prisoners Of War? I mean, they were not proven guilty of anything by any of the courts systems... and some remain without being charged with anything. We have to let them go, right? Or do we turn into Vladimir Putin and hold them as political prisoners... forever? The only option to keep them held prisoner is to have the War in Afghanistan continue... forever. Is that what we want?
obama tried to close gitmo and bring some of these guys here to our supermax prisons to face trial, but since he could not close gitmo by executive order, he went through congress and they blocked it. the gop blocked it. most likely because they could not let obama keep his promise to close gitmo at any cost.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
We send soldier to do battle. He see's child get run over by is truck, he see's horrible things that could cause any normal human to lose it yet we want to treat him as the enemy.
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
The point I was expressing in the last paragraph is that we (everyone in America) need to quit politicizing everything along the two political party lines. That is what is happening here... this prisoner swap is being politicized and people are buying into it.
...
I suppose I need to fully qualify my comments to some readers by stating that when I use the term, 'You' or 'We'... I am not speaking to one individual in particular, rather, I am addressing a broader audience in general terms. Such as, if you (posed to general readers) form all of your (refering to the same general audience) opinion based upon a politial party agenda... then, you (the person that does form their opinions soley based upon political partisanship) are a partisan lacky dog that the politicians love to have in their pocket.
It is a common practice used in general discussion within an open forum. I thought that most people understood this basic concept. I hope I don't have to explain this concept of expressing views in general terms to every person who believes themselves to be the only person involved in the discussion.
I hope this clarifies things.
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Why does Congress historically get approval ratings registering in the teens?
Isn't it like making sure the kid who never gets a grade higher than 12% (which means he needs to improve by an additional 48% just to achieve an 'F' on his Report Card) should be kept in the loop on everything?
I understand te whole 'Checks and Balances' thing... but, I also understand what a no good pile of shit our Congress is.
Hail, Hail!!!
Congress' approval ratings have for the most part only been poor during this administration. Which is likely the result of people of this country seeing the lack of communication and stubbornness on both sides. This country needs a 3rd party now more then ever because right now these 2 parties are an embarrassment. Voting over the last decade has been trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils. There needs to be a balance! Not far left and not far right but somewhere in between. Bill Clinton had that balance.
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
Actually... Congress has historically gotten poor approval ratings. They didn't just start being do-nothing pieces of shit on 20January2009. There were lobbyists buying our politicians before 2009... I'm pretty sure of that. They have been do nothing pieces of shit throughout our history.
And America doesn't need a Third Party... Americans just need to quit being partisan political puppets and quit voting for and supporting people and agendas based upon the letters, (D) and (R). Americans hold Term Limits in their hands, but are too dumb to use them. All Americans need to do is look at the ballots... look for the word, 'Incumbant' next to the person's name... and DON'T CHECK THAT BOX.
...
For example... how many times have you heard someone say, "Vote them all out"... then, express their support for Rand Paul? They will come up with all kinds of rationale and justification... but, in the end... it's just excuses. Because for every person willing to vote them all out, except Paul... there is a person who will say, 'except Pelosi' or 'except Reid' or 'except Chambliss'. People only want everyone else's guy voted out... not theirs. Politicians love how fucking stupid we are.
Politicians will hate us if we were collectively intelligent... something they know... we will never become.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/05/angus-king-bergdahl_n_5452262.html
Yeah, it doesn't make sense why they'd kill him because then they indeed would not get their 5 guys back. That was my first thought when I first heard it, too. But that info I stated was announced around the time it happened, which we all know early reports are usually wrong. That info is stated in the last paragraph, but doesn't explain why.
You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
or you can come to terms and realize
you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
makes much more sense to live in the present tense - Present Tense
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I don't like the President (regardless if I voted for him or not) being able to bypass congress and people saying that it's okay. That is a scary government to have. And that basic action, regardless if you think it was right or wrong, is completely wrong to do in our government. And if you think that's okay, America is becoming a scarier place than I thought it could ever be.
BOO!!!
Did you like W?
he has had no trial. only the one on fox news. the republicans were for his release a couple of months ago, since the release they have removed their favorable tweets and now are "outraged".
fucking hypocrites.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
none of that matters.
what matters is that in the soldiers' creeds of the respective branches of service it is clearly states that they will never leave a fallen comrade. obama leaving this guy there to rot is abandoning an american serviceman. the thought that people would encourage obama to leave an american citizen overseas because he might have wandered off is galling to me. feeling that way does not make one a patriot. it makes them an asshole.
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/military-creeds.html
Army and Army National Guard
The Soldier's Creed
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.
Air Force
Airman's Creed
I am an American Airman.
I am a Warrior.
I have answered my Nation’s call.
I am an American Airman.
My mission is to Fly, Fight, and Win.
I am faithful to a Proud Heritage,
A Tradition of Honor,
And a Legacy of Valor.
I am an American Airman.
Guardian of Freedom and Justice,
My Nation’s Sword and Shield,
Its Sentry and Avenger.
I defend my Country with my Life.
I am an American Airman.
Wingman, Leader, Warrior.
I will never leave an Airman behind,
I will never falter,
And I will not fail.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Obama did this on his own because he knew he wouldn't have support from congress. That's both republicans and democrats!
I'm not opposed to bringing him home. I'm opposed to what we gave up for him. 6 other soldiers lives and 5 of the worst Taliban terrorists seems like an awful lot. It seems they dictated the negotiations and we gave into them.
I put myself in the shoes of the 6 families who lost their loved ones for him. If I were to find out that my son died trying to bring home another soldier that was captured I would be proud of him. If I were to find out he died searching for someone that left on his own free will??? I would be very upset!!!
I hope Bowe gets his day in court and that all the truth is told! If found innocent then he should be free. If found guilty? Death!
So in my opinion, any american who deserts and risks the lives of other americans is not an american!
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
you have not heard his story. he has testified nothing yet.
and some of those soldiers interviewed have been discharged with discharges "other than honorable."
the media is shaping this story and is trying the man without any sort of due process.
other soldiers that knew he left failed to report him leaving to superiors in a timely fashion. it is impossible to prove desertion when it was not reported promptly.
you can't prove desertion under UCMJ Article 85, because you cannot prove he intended to leave without coming back.
UCMJ Article 85 states:
a) Any member of the armed forces who
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another on of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States; is guilty of desertion.
http://www.militarylawyers.com/Desertion.html
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Gimmesometruth, for me being a former officer in the Navy, it's nice that you post the air force and army creed as your rebutle. But there exists a thing called the 11 general orders. Which actually are your basic general orders.
1. To take charge of this post and all government property in view.
2. To walk my post in a military manner, keeping always on the alert, and observing everything that takes place within sight or hearing.
3. To report all violations of orders I am instructed to enforce.
4. To repeat all calls from posts more distant from the guard house than my own.
5. To quit my post only when properly relieved.
6. To receive, obey, and pass on to the sentry who relieves me all orders from the commanding officer, field officer of the day, officer of the day, and officers and petty officers of the watch.
7. To talk to no one except in line of duty.
8. To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder.
9. To call the petty officer of the watch in any case not covered by instructions.
10. To salute all officers and all colors and standards not cased.
11. To be especially watchful at night, and during the time for challenging, to challenge all persons on or near my post, and to allow no one to pass without proper authority.
Every service member, officer or enlisted, are to maintain these 11 orders. I can see 4 of which he failed to obey and ignored. General orders > any creed.
Ucmj, article 92, punishment (1) Violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
I am going off what the other soldiers in his command have come out and said. Not what this political party is saying or that one is. He abandoned his post and either surrendered/ or was captured.
As to W, you said you didn't like Obama was just seeing if you like W.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been rescued, I'm saying that he shouldn't have been traded for with the five that were sent that way.
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
First off...
Can the people who are saying the 5 Taliban captors are 'The Worst' of the bunch held in Camp Delta please provide some background on each of them? I mean, things like the circumstances of their capture, their role in the Taliban hierarchy, acts directly attributed to them, etc... If you are one of the people that are saying they are the worst... where are you getting this information? And can you please, make it available to the rest of us so we can make our own assessments?
I don't know who these fucking guys are... i never heard of them before. I have no idea how bad or worse they are. But, there are people claiming they are the 5 worst of the prisoners. What do you know... that I don't? Show me how you reached this conclusion.
Personally... knowing what our C.I.A. is capable of... they rank these guys. I'm pretty sure they are not the worst of the Guantanamo crowd. They are bad... yeah, I agree with that. But, the Worst? The C.I.A. is going to let the worst ones out first? Do you really believe that?
...
Also... I have to ask again...
What happens to the rest of the inmates at Camp Delta after the War in Afghanistan winds down? Don't we have to set them free... unconditionally? Aren't they Prisoners Of War? I mean, they were not proven guilty of anything by any of the courts systems... and some remain without being charged with anything. We have to let them go, right? Or do we turn into Vladimir Putin and hold them as political prisoners... forever?
The only option to keep them held prisoner is to have the War in Afghanistan continue... forever. Is that what we want?
Hail, Hail!!!
which is it?
you have right to a gun, this guy has his right to due process.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."