qur'an & violence against women/girls

chadwick wrote:

but it is a fact that we've been given not a single ounce of enlightenment on this topic. some have given decent explainations but they are surface words.

hands removed, heads removed, women stoned to death because they were raped. men are pretty much free to abuse women & girls is what i was asking the truth about. why are young girls given to grown ass men? culture/religion... whatever it is they seem to always go back to the good book as their guide.

hungry? steal a fig & see what happens to your hand in many places where they are not playing games. an 8 year old girl died on her wedding night because of sexual intercourse.... what the fuck is going on?

what is the guide to the cultures of islamic followers?

Chadwick you ask good questions but you are not going to find your answers here. For the most part you will only get responses that are based on heresay, rumours, bigotry, hatred, and ignorance.

My suggestion is go to your local mosque and ask the Iman. Or go to your local college or university that has a dept of mideast or islamic studies and ask one of the professors.

Besides this thread is sure to he locked soon because of the hateful and offensive posts.

good luck

chadwick wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

chadwick wrote:

im in rural iowa, we have no mosques, although i wish we did. i'd also like a buddhist temple but i don't see either one coming anytime soon in my area. asking a mideast/islamic studies professor at a college/university is a good idea.

i'd like to think we can seek further knowledge on here as this is supposed to be a place for learning something.

of course thats possible Chad. One requirement though is an open mind. as Cate said , form your own judgement from your research. Look at all of it, not just the bad.

At our core we are tribal creatures us humans, Some are just bigger than others. "you dont look like me, makes you suspect" "You dont pray like me makes you suspect" " you dont THINK like me makes you suspect" " you dont VOTE like me makes you suspect" Same the world over buddy.

Some seek to overlook/overcome such tribalism. For others , that doesnt fit the selfish agenda.

i am open minded & do not focus on only the bad as good thrives beyond evil. for now my research is here asking my online peers who love music like i do. i feel trust & knowledge is alive & well here. although some here i do not trust, they are a minute percentage.

i am big on women & children being treated well & as equals. again & again, why are raped & tortured women stoned to death? culture? religion? the guide of their lives, of their cultures are what?

I am also big on women and children being treated well and as equals. Women who are raped are not to be punished. There is nothing in the Qu'ran that advocates this, directs this. Women and children are not to be tortured but protected. There is nowhere in the Qu'ran where stoning is mentioned as punishment. Many claim that the religion of Islam disrespects women, that Muslim women are beaten. An example from the life of the Prophet that clearly counters these claims is that a man during the time of the Prophet slapped his slave, who was a female. The Prophet directed that this women be set free as an expiation for the abuse. If any type of rape or abuse were allowed in Islam, an expiation would not have been ordered. An example for the Qu'ran for adultery is that to be punished of adultery that there must be four witnesses of the act. And not just any four witnesses, they must be known as honest and upstanding members of the community. And what four honest and upstanding members would witness the act? Therefore, the punishment of lashes would be near impossible and clearly to serve as a warning on the severity of adultery, it oppresses the soul and it oppresses others. And to paraphrase Tariq Ramadan, There are strict and numerous conditions for a punishment to be given and to betray any of these would be against the teachings of Islam because to do so would produce an injustice. I understand where you are coming from, the US media has done a great job on focusing on the criminal acts of so called Muslims, but yet others are left un-scrutinized. I guess it gives us a chance for an exchange. I know that you and others on this thread know that kids as young as five get arrested in the West Bank and yes get raped/sodomized by their captors. And women are randomly arrested and are abused. It is not uncommon for male Israeli occupation forces to hit women. In Hebron, settlers target women and children. Circumstances in the very least of which women are called sluts by these settlers in front of their children for daring to walk in their own neighborhood and take their kids to school. But I know that thread is coming, right? Let's hope so.

fuck wrote:

To add to that, there's also a report that the Prophet said something along the lines of, "he who beats his wife and then lays with her is not one of us." In addition to this there's another report where he said, "Seeking knowledge (education) is incumbent upon every Muslim man and woman." It's notable that he said this because in Arabic, words are altered based on gender (thus "Muslim" is technically the masculine form, whereas "Muslima" is the feminine), so the Prophet reportedly said both words, whereas it would only suffice to say "Muslim" to refer to all Muslims. The reason for this is that he clearly wanted to stress that he means women as well. This directly contradicts any supposed notion that Islam prevents women access to education based on nonsense read about the Taliban and all that.

VivaPalestina wrote:

There are strict and numerous conditions for a punishment to be given and to betray any of these would be against the teachings of Islam because to do so would produce an injustice.

Yeah. I talked about this, chadwick, in my post in the other thread, which apparently you did not understand. I recommend you try reading it more than once, though: there are more general principles (justice, equality, etc) which have to be upheld by all the smaller rules within Islam. If any of these rules begin to contradict these general principles (whether it is because the contemporary context is different from the historical one, or for any other reason) then serious reexamination of these rules is necessary to thereby determine their continued applicability. Further, Rudolph Peters in his book Crime and Punishment in Islam says himself that it is virtually impossible for crimes (such as theft, adultery, etc) to be punished unless the perpetrator him/herself confesses to it, because until then there is a concept known as "shubha" (basically means the benefit of the doubt) that the defendant could invoke and thereby escape any punishment, due to the precise nature in which these crimes are defined. As badbrains said, stealing for hunger would not go punished. How can someone prove greed?

These punishments are called in Arabic hudud, which literally can be translated as "limits;" the reason they are called this is because they are limits God has set to prevent things like theft, murder, adultery, etc., from occurring in society, so the punishments mostly exist theoretically.

So if a woman reports that she has been raped she is confessing ......... who gets punished? and what is the punishment?

aerial wrote:

fuck wrote:

To add to that, there's also a report that the Prophet said something along the lines of, "he who beats his wife and then lays with her is not one of us." In addition to this there's another report where he said, "Seeking knowledge (education) is incumbent upon every Muslim man and woman." It's notable that he said this because in Arabic, words are altered based on gender (thus "Muslim" is technically the masculine form, whereas "Muslima" is the feminine), so the Prophet reportedly said both words, whereas it would only suffice to say "Muslim" to refer to all Muslims. The reason for this is that he clearly wanted to stress that he means women as well. This directly contradicts any supposed notion that Islam prevents women access to education based on nonsense read about the Taliban and all that.

VivaPalestina wrote:

There are strict and numerous conditions for a punishment to be given and to betray any of these would be against the teachings of Islam because to do so would produce an injustice.

Yeah. I talked about this, chadwick, in my post in the other thread, which apparently you did not understand. I recommend you try reading it more than once, though: there are more general principles (justice, equality, etc) which have to be upheld by all the smaller rules within Islam. If any of these rules begin to contradict these general principles (whether it is because the contemporary context is different from the historical one, or for any other reason) then serious reexamination of these rules is necessary to thereby determine their continued applicability. Further, Rudolph Peters in his book Crime and Punishment in Islam says himself that it is virtually impossible for crimes (such as theft, adultery, etc) to be punished unless the perpetrator him/herself confesses to it, because until then there is a concept known as "shubha" (basically means the benefit of the doubt) that the defendant could invoke and thereby escape any punishment, due to the precise nature in which these crimes are defined. As badbrains said, stealing for hunger would not go punished. How can someone prove greed?

These punishments are called in Arabic hudud, which literally can be translated as "limits;" the reason they are called this is because they are limits God has set to prevent things like theft, murder, adultery, etc., from occurring in society, so the punishments mostly exist theoretically.

So if a woman reports that she has been raped she is confessing ......... who gets punished? and what is the punishment?

so which is it aerial? Is she REPORTING being raped or confessing to raping a man?

chadwick wrote:

http://youtu.be/vOIbgd5qcrg
so what is islam sharia law?

slightly graphic :evil:

sharia law little boy's punishment for stealing bread in the market
http://youtu.be/tPqDj51u0Ow

good idea... let's run a vehicle onto his hand/arm as punishment & use his little limb as a parking spot

nicely done

so what is this sharia law in islam? do not tell me it doesn't exist as it does. i will keep posting these video if we are told it does not happen & it is propaganda

you claimed to be open minded. Yet , all that you choose to post are negatives. I woud expect that you could find plenty wrong anywhere.

My request to you is to find the good and post that too.You know, just in the spirit of openmindedness.