qur'an & violence against women/girls

chadwick

anyone here very much familiar with the qur'an & its teachings? i want to know about the qur'an & muslim beliefs. with all honesty i am not ever going to read the book in its entirety. i know i am an ass for my lack of desire to read page after page of the qur'an. i have ADHD... fuck it, life is a huge daily task.

with that said, let's begin.

i am confused about the differences between muslim & islam. which specific countries or regions are what? is muslim the same as islam? again i am confused. we hear the brutality enforced on females from children to grown women. what is the truth? why are women treated with insane cruelty? sure again & again we will be told not all are treated badly. why do not the heads of muslims go after maniacs who abuse their wives & children? do the islamics do the same to their women & young girls?

we hear a father can sell his 8 year daughter to a grown ass man for a few dollars, a few goats & chickens. why? who does this, muslims or islam. why are sons worth more than daughters?

chadwick

what? no one can enlighten a guy on what are the differences? i did this afternoon watch 3 videos on the difference in the two & i'll tell ya, i could not understand much of what was said

dr. whoever was saying how a muslim man can yet can't have multiple wives. a lot of talking in circles is what i understood

mickeyrat

from what I understand(and thats limited) that quran holds women in high esteem. Its cultural that they are treated as they are.

chadwick

mickeyrat wrote:

from what I understand(and thats limited) that quran holds women in high esteem. Its cultural that they are treated as they are.

well i am pleased you answered. you may be right, you may be wrong, i haven't the foggiest. i feel we are not the only ones here who know zero about islam/muslim practices. i also feel many want others to believe they know something about this topic when in fact they know nearly zero, yet will not ask to be taught as they'll never admit to having limited knowledge on this topic or any other topic for that matter

badbrains

Chadwick, women are held at a crazy high esteem. If you ever picked up the Quran and read it, some of it, you'd def see things in a diff way on Islam. I wish I could talk to you about it in person someday, all while we take some puffs of some killer greens. Typing it does nothing. So here's to one day u and I getting to hang out some day.

VivaPalestina

chadwick wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

from what I understand(and thats limited) that quran holds women in high esteem. Its cultural that they are treated as they are.

well i am pleased you answered. you may be right, you may be wrong, i haven't the foggiest. i feel we are not the only ones here who know zero about islam/muslim practices. i also feel many want others to believe they know something about this topic when in fact they know nearly zero, yet will not ask to be taught as they'll never admit to having limited knowledge on this topic or any other topic for that matter

You are very right, they have an agenda. I was raised a Muslim surrounded by Muslims and am a Muslim. A Palestinian, female, I was not sold, nor have heard or know of any female related or non-related who was ever sold. The selling of children is not an Islamic practice, it is a practice that humans do worldwide from every faith and no faith, for what I truly believe is for reasons we will never understand, but I think we must. Are they poor, is it culture, is it ignorance, is it that they were abused and have some defective thinking on children? Maybe yes to all of these. I have encountered Muslims from Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Morrocco, Algeria, etc. some I know intimately, some not, I dont' know of any women from these countries, who were bought or sold. That is just my experience. During my Islamic education, this was never a topic that was brought up...I honestly never heard of this until I read it in some paper in the US. There are some actions by Muslims, Christians Jews against children and females that disturb me, but I also know of human rights activists from every single one of those faiths who are working to end it.

Smellyman

A Muslim is somebody who practices Islam

chadwick

badbrains wrote:

Chadwick, women are held at a crazy high esteem. If you ever picked up the Quran and read it, some of it, you'd def see things in a diff way on Islam. I wish I could talk to you about it in person someday, all while we take some puffs of some killer greens. Typing it does nothing. So here's to one day u and I getting to hang out some day.

nicely done...

first & foremost i do know for a fact not everyone in any culture is a nasty shithead. i know for a fact all people are people which means this, some are nice & some are not & some are more out going than others or whatever. so i am not at all saying muslims are bad, they are not, not all, just the radical violant pricks. yet they seem to run a very tight ship, the calm decent folks i mean.

who cuts off a hand if a thief is caught stealing? who beheads a woman for being rapped? do not tell me this stuff does not happen because it does happen somewhere, somehow.

so you are into islam, yes? you very easily could tell me the truths & facts? you can speak about whatever the extremists are up to with the whole violence thing, yes? why are girls 8 yrs old set off to married a grown man? this is a muslim thing, yes? arranged marriages for money & livestock, yes?

we do hear about a woman being raped, she is then stoned to death because her father is embarrassed and the rapist is not punished because the woman asked for it, yes?

chadwick

Smellyman wrote:

A Muslim is somebody who practices Islam

now see, we are communicating. we are learning, well, at least i am. you may be learning to teach another something with patience & whatnot.

yesterday i was listening to a dr. whoever he was speak about the difference between islam & muslim. from what i understand there is a diffference in the two yet there is no difference....fuck

which is it?

mickeyrat

chadwick wrote:

badbrains wrote:

Chadwick, women are held at a crazy high esteem. If you ever picked up the Quran and read it, some of it, you'd def see things in a diff way on Islam. I wish I could talk to you about it in person someday, all while we take some puffs of some killer greens. Typing it does nothing. So here's to one day u and I getting to hang out some day.

nicely done...

first & foremost i do know for a fact not everyone in any culture is a nasty shithead. i know for a fact all people are people which means this, some are nice & some are not & some are more out going than others or whatever. so i am not at all saying muslims are bad, they are not, not all, just the radical violant pricks. yet they seem to run a very tight ship, the calm decent folks i mean.

who cuts off a hand if a thief is caught stealing? who beheads a woman for being rapped? do not tell me this stuff does not happen because it does happen somewhere, somehow.

so you are into islam, yes? you very easily could tell me the truths & facts? you can speak about whatever the extremists are up to with the whole violence thing, yes? why are girls 8 yrs old set off to married a grown man? this is a culturalthing, yes? arranged marriages for money & livestock, yes?

we do hear about a woman being raped, she is then stoned to death because her father is embarrassed and the rapist is not punished because the woman asked for it, yes?

fixed at least one part for ya Chad.

JimmyV

chadwick wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

A Muslim is somebody who practices Islam

now see, we are communicating. we are learning, well, at least i am. you may be learning to teach another something with patience & whatnot.

yesterday i was listening to a dr. whoever he was speak about the difference between islam & muslim. from what i understand there is a diffference in the two yet there is no difference....fuck

which is it?

Islam is to a Muslim what Catholicism is to a Catholic. One is the religion, the other is the believer in that religion.

lukin2006

Its bullshit ... they do treat woman differently. Personal experience of my wife ... while working at a factory she had a recently hire immigrant of Muslim faith tell her "she had no right working there, and should be home taking care of her household duties" ... I told her to file a complaint and get his ass terminated, she would not not, she's far nicer than me . And more recently her employer hired some recent refugees on some kind of government program and one was of the muslim faith and a female co - worker went to shake his hand and he refused ... spouting off some bullshit about his religion. Wish I was there to laugh in his face.

badbrains

lukin2006 wrote:

Its bullshit ... they do treat woman differently. Personal experience of my wife ... while working at a factory she had a recently hire immigrant of Muslim faith tell her "she had no right working there, and should be home taking care of her household duties" ... I told her to file a complaint and get his ass terminated, she would not not, she's far nicer than me . And more recently her employer hired some recent refugees on some kind of government program and one was of the muslim faith and a female co - worker went to shake his hand and he refused ... spouting off some bullshit about his religion. Wish I was there to laugh in his face.

And why didn't you go and defend your wife's honor or speak up for her? No brainer for me. Someone insults my wife I'd have no prob defending her. You choose not to. Says a lot. We get it, you dnt like Islam and all religions. No prob, doesn't mean I wouldn't stand next to you at a show.

lukin2006

badbrains wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Its bullshit ... they do treat woman differently. Personal experience of my wife ... while working at a factory she had a recently hire immigrant of Muslim faith tell her "she had no right working there, and should be home taking care of her household duties" ... I told her to file a complaint and get his ass terminated, she would not not, she's far nicer than me . And more recently her employer hired some recent refugees on some kind of government program and one was of the muslim faith and a female co - worker went to shake his hand and he refused ... spouting off some bullshit about his religion. Wish I was there to laugh in his face.

And why didn't you go and defend your wife's honor or speak up for her? No brainer for me. Someone insults my wife I'd have no prob defending her. You choose not to. Says a lot. We get it, you dnt like Islam and all religions. No prob, doesn't mean I wouldn't stand next to you at a show.

first of all it's a work related issue ... she would have to file a complaint. See I don't need to go and get all hot headed and cause bigger problems for her. See it's a no brainer for you ... kind of making my point though. Plus believe me my wife can fight her own battles and can more than take care of herself ...

chadwick

please let's all be nice here & try & understand one another & what different cultures (thank you, mickrat) & different religious beliefs are all about, for both the positive & the negative.

what is positive & following the muslim way of life?

what is negative about following the muslim way of life?

i'd love it if a muslim or very well knowledged individuals shown some enlightenment on these questions i've presented

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

anyone here very much familiar with the qur'an & its teachings? i want to know about the qur'an & muslim beliefs. with all honesty i am not ever going to read the book in its entirety. i know i am an ass for my lack of desire to read page after page of the qur'an. i have ADHD... fuck it, life is a huge daily task.

with that said, let's begin.

i am confused about the differences between muslim & islam. which specific countries or regions are what? is muslim the same as islam? again i am confused. we hear the brutality enforced on females from children to grown women. what is the truth? why are women treated with insane cruelty? sure again & again we will be told not all are treated badly. why do not the heads of muslims go after maniacs who abuse their wives & children? do the islamics do the same to their women & young girls?

we hear a father can sell his 8 year daughter to a grown ass man for a few dollars, a few goats & chickens. why? who does this, muslims or islam. why are sons worth more than daughters?

everything you've said is the reason you need to seek this knowledge yourself chad. if you want to know something you need to form your own opinion based on your own research.. that way you can weigh up what you've read from different sources and put it up against what you read/see in the media and once again come to your own conclusions... separating the truth from the propaganda...or at least do so to the best of your knowledge. do you really think a father sells his 8 year old daughter for a few goats and chickens??? would you believe this if it was said of a christian? or do you entertain the notion simply because muslims are portrayed as the great evil atm.. so clearly anythings possible? you've also got to learn to distinguish between religion and culture cause if something is allowable in one country which simply happens to be Islamic, doesn't mean it is allowable in another Islamic country. islam is not one homogenous religion much like christianity isn't.. or even buddhism for that matter.

chadwick

how did the 8 year old girl die on her wedding night? what was she sold to her (grown ass man of a) husband for in the arranged marriage? this surely can not be the first & last marriage of this type.

but, cate, you sure are correct about a thing or two. i, chadwick, need to read more. i will not say i do not do my own research though because i do. i do not let the society i live in dictate what i need to believe. you pointed out buddhism, i like buddhism & hinduism. am i strong & deep into the teachings of buddha? no. i like the calmness, the artwork, the peaceful mind, body & soul & the idea of buddhist monks high in the temples of tibet & elsewhere being as peaceful & striving for enlightenment as strongly as humanly possible or further

will i ever pick up the qur'an & read & study it to form my own beliefs, no, i honestly doubt i will. you are very well read. your mind allows you to function well with books & you get great enjoyment from reading. reading can be torture when a person has ADHD/ADD. but make no mistake, i read, just not at the level & passion someone like yourself, my own mother or someone capable of sitting still & who can remember what they read 3 minutes ago.

however, i'm getting better as i'm taking meds again. but this isn't about me (although in my defence i can write circles around most people because that is active & creative vs' being guided along by someone else's bullshit)

will i read the bible? no
will i read hinduism & buddhism books on their teachings? no, not in full, i skip around & read some of it but never finish them.

culture & religion are different, i get it. so with that said, why is the woman stoned to death because she was raped? why are children married to grown ass men? (men? i don't know if i'd use that word to describe a male who has sexual relations with a child which in turn delivers her to her death upon his narrow shoulders)

this culture sees women punished & often the males who do the crimes against women are free to do as they please. or is all this a big fucking lie to brain wash the people of the western world in order to bring more conflict & misunderstanding which divides the cultures & religions more & more? propaganda? it is a fact that it exists & is thriving across the globe. but it is not all a bullshit brain washing tactic.

i trust very few & i sure as shit trust outsiders probably more than i believe my own leaders. i love good people. i love the strength in folks. i respect all decent people no matter their color, religion or culture. i do crave understanding, learning & love... i crave that we all love one another & give a fuck about the earth


typing this & rereading it has just made me want to pick up the qur'an & other religious guides & give them a couple moments of my time. it would take 47 years to read maybe half. writers often ramble & use words that require dictionaries (which is great & are my favorite books). they show off & repeat & talk in circles. i am learning of this tactic as i read this 'body, mind & soul' book written by a medical doctor who is the best cardiologist in the world. quite often he writes like a 3rd grader. this turns me off so the book was not finished but returned to the library on the due date

i'm pretty positive torture would be reading the bible & whatever else is out there

http://youtu.be/exanYRNdzP4
requires sound in full

jbarbian

If I understand what I have read correctly, the horrible things that you bring up are a cultural issue. These crimes against women have occurred at the hands of peoples from all of the three monotheistic religions of this region (the Middle East) AND it made sense to them living tribal, semi-nomadic, lives. Many in this region still live tribal lives where these traditions of living have not been modernized. If that is all a tribe knows for thousands of years and they haven't been exposed to other ways of thinking are they wrong? (Imo YES, but others will argue that the tribes just need to be educated that some of their old school practices are not acceptable). A few cases occur in modern society too. Those individuals know better, they live in the modern world, they now the laws of our society.

Bentleyspop

aerial wrote:

These people are trained to be the sickest of the human race! This is happening everywhere. It can not be blamed on the excuse "they did not know better"!
Sick....
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/beslan-child-rape-torture-enforced.html

I have not seen any Christians or Buddhist gangs like these....
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/muslim-pedophile-gangs-prey-on-british.html

Islam seems to be mostly about sex......What's with that?...is it all the inbreeding in the eastern countries?

The mall that was just terrorized...the Muslims tortured and raped the shoppers including the children. Monsters they are!

Yet more proof of the how pervasive hate and ignorance is in this country

As-salamu alaykum

AELARA

Well, I am not a Muslim but my boyfriend being one, I can say I have shaped my own opinion.
First of all, just like Christians, not all Muslims are same. Islam is the main religion in many countries such as Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan and in many countries in Africa and Central Asia. It's obvious that all these people cannot have the same customs even if they have the same religion. There are many differences in their beliefs.
There are sunnis and shiites muslims just like Catholics and Prostestants for example.
My boyfriend says Qur'an does not say anywhere that women are inferior or anything like this. Yes, women should respect their husbands just like men should respect their wives. Nowadays in many islamic countries, men cannot have many wives. I've been quite sceptical about such things as women's rights, he says it's a matter of national habits and old customs. For example, the Saudi Arabian regime is considered to be a radical one, imposing very strict laws.
There are plenty of examples of men abusing their wives. One excellent example of such a case is the book My Feudal Lord by Tehmina Durrani, describing the abusement of a Pakistan woman by her husband- a famous politician of Pakistan.
Some of the islamic habits may seem strange to western eyes, for example the ban of alcohol and pork. But finally what is different is not necessarily bad.
Moreover, for Islam, if someone kills one person it's just like he killed thousands. It's not an aggressive religion as some want to convince us. Do not forget that Muslims practice charity, Islam is against usury and normally all Muslims are very respectful to christian holy people such as Jesus Christ. Moreover the use of a headscarf is not mandatory for women. Muslims aim for peace all around the world.
Anyway, my opinion is that Islam is a religion like all others. It has its good and bad aspects. But I believe most western women would not find it easy to cope with islamic rules.
My opinion is that we shouldn't blame a whole religion due to the actions of some of its believers especially if we haven't studied this religion. We should not forget that crimes have been commited in the name of all religions.
I am saying all these from my own personal experience. If anyone sees any mistake in my words please correct me. I hope I helped you understand this -usually- misunderstood religion and I hope I have not offended anyone.

jbarbian

aerial wrote:

jbarbian wrote:

If I understand what I have read correctly, the horrible things that you bring up are a cultural issue. These crimes against women have occurred at the hands of peoples from all of the three monotheistic religions of this region (the Middle East) AND it made sense to them living tribal, semi-nomadic, lives. Many in this region still live tribal lives where these traditions of living have not been modernized. If that is all a tribe knows for thousands of years and they haven't been exposed to other ways of thinking are they wrong? (Imo YES, but others will argue that the tribes just need to be educated that some of their old school practices are not acceptable). A few cases occur in modern society too. Those individuals know better, they live in the modern world, they now the laws of our society.

These people are trained to be the sickest of the human race! This is happening everywhere. It can not be blamed on the excuse "they did not know better"!
Sick....
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/beslan-child-rape-torture-enforced.html

I have not seen any Christians or Buddhist gangs like these....
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/muslim-pedophile-gangs-prey-on-british.html

Islam seems to be mostly about sex......What's with that?...is it all the inbreeding in the eastern countries?

The mall that was just terrorized...the Muslims tortured and raped the shoppers including the children. Monsters they are!

Please find education BEYOND the extremist websites and blogs that you site. You have shown, through siting such material, that you too are an extremist. I don't want to believe that you have that much hatred in your heart.


@AELARA, thank you for your insight! Very informative!