The Death Penalty

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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Travis Baumgartner pleads guilty in deadly Edmonton shootings

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... tarts.html

    and POS

    Calling Baumgartner’s actions “a treacherous betrayal of trust,” the Crown submitted a joint request with the defence that Baumgartner be sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 40 years.

    If that sentence is approved, it would set a precedent under legislation approved in 2011 preventing sentence discounts for multiple murders, and would be the harshest sentence in Canada since Arthur Lucas was executed in 1962.

    Don't judge him too harshly. The guy was broke and needed some cash. We can call him stupid though. I mean... how did he ever think he would get away with such a crime? Of course he didn't and now a bunch of people are dead.

    But boy oh boy... don't ever commit a triple homicide in Canada because if you do... 40 years (if that). This guy might have to spend 40 years until he's 63 before he can get out and golf again. I couldn't imagine.

    I also couldn't imagine my colleague placing a gun to my head and blowing my face off either, but why focus on that?

    40 years. Pffft.
    We agree on longer sentencing. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
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  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    of course I can't be certain. I don't know the stats on triple murderers getting parole, but I highly doubt he ever will.

    Don't be surprised if it happens though. We've got people working really hard at convincing parole boards that violent offenders are not violent anymore and deserve another chance. Every one of them has their personal set of advocates and we have some gullible/weak members that sit on parole boards.

    I was about to say "show me someone who has committed a triple homicide and been granted parole and I might agree with you". But I've done it for you. Disgusting. I don't know what to say.

    from May 29, 2012

    A man convicted for his role in a triple murder on Christmas Eve in 1987 has been granted full parole.

    Jon Waluk was convicted of first-degree murder in the killings.

    The parole board issued a report on May 25, which pointed to the Correctional Service of Canada assessing Waluk's "overall level of risk as manageable on both day and full parole."

    The 63-year-old Waluk, who is in deteriorating health, plans to support himself through his investments.

    He was previously granted full parole in 2008 but was suspended less than a year later for being suspected of selling illegal cigarettes.

    The parole board imposed some conditions on the new round of full parole, including that Waluk abstain from alcohol and drugs and be required to attend counselling.

    Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/man-convicte ... z2edgtvoKO

    from July 26, 2010:

    He is serving a life sentence for the slayings of Agnes Kirk-Kirton, her five-year-old daughter Sarah and 18-month-old son Evan at their Winnipeg townhouse on Christmas Eve in 1987.

    Waluk and co-accused Larry Fisher were convicted of three counts of second-degree murder for gunning down the family members at point-blank range. The pair was looking to collect a drug debt from Terry Kirton, the woman's husband and father of the two children. Terry Kirton escaped through a window and survived.

    At trial, Waluk claimed he saved Kirton's life by pushing him out the window. Waluk claims Fisher was the gunman and he had no idea Fisher planned to kill. Fisher was convicted of first-degree murder and died in prison.

    Waluk's case has been referred to the Association in Defence of the Wrongfully Convicted, according to documents.

    Waluk wasn't eligible for parole for 20 years.

    He was granted day parole in September 2007, then full parole in April 2008 with conditions. Waluk was in the community for a year until he and a second man were caught with almost 80,000 black market cigarettes in May 2009, landing him back behind bars and resulting in his full parole being revoked.

    Waluk pleaded guilty last October to possession of marked tobacco and possession of unmarked tobacco and ordered to pay fines of about $23,000 and a triple tax penalty of $45,750, court documents state.

    He told a NPB panel he was doing a favour for a friend.

    Documents indicate Waluk is committed to being released but there are concerns about his pattern of offending and an apparent need to help people and seek approval from negative peers.

    If released, Waluk would not look for work due to "medical limitations impacting (his) ability to work," according to documents.

    Waluk is a father of three but told a NPB panel he has no involvement in his grown children's lives.
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  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    of course I can't be certain. I don't know the stats on triple murderers getting parole, but I highly doubt he ever will.

    Don't be surprised if it happens though. We've got people working really hard at convincing parole boards that violent offenders are not violent anymore and deserve another chance. Every one of them has their personal set of advocates and we have some gullible/weak members that sit on parole boards.

    I was about to say "show me someone who has committed a triple homicide and been granted parole and I might agree with you". But I've done it for you. Disgusting. I don't know what to say.

    from May 29, 2012

    A man convicted for his role in a triple murder on Christmas Eve in 1987 has been granted full parole.

    Jon Waluk was convicted of first-degree murder in the killings.

    The parole board issued a report on May 25, which pointed to the Correctional Service of Canada assessing Waluk's "overall level of risk as manageable on both day and full parole."

    The 63-year-old Waluk, who is in deteriorating health, plans to support himself through his investments.

    He was previously granted full parole in 2008 but was suspended less than a year later for being suspected of selling illegal cigarettes.

    The parole board imposed some conditions on the new round of full parole, including that Waluk abstain from alcohol and drugs and be required to attend counselling.

    Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/man-convicte ... z2edgtvoKO

    from July 26, 2010:

    He is serving a life sentence for the slayings of Agnes Kirk-Kirton, her five-year-old daughter Sarah and 18-month-old son Evan at their Winnipeg townhouse on Christmas Eve in 1987.

    Waluk and co-accused Larry Fisher were convicted of three counts of second-degree murder for gunning down the family members at point-blank range. The pair was looking to collect a drug debt from Terry Kirton, the woman's husband and father of the two children. Terry Kirton escaped through a window and survived.

    At trial, Waluk claimed he saved Kirton's life by pushing him out the window. Waluk claims Fisher was the gunman and he had no idea Fisher planned to kill. Fisher was convicted of first-degree murder and died in prison.

    Waluk's case has been referred to the Association in Defence of the Wrongfully Convicted, according to documents.

    Waluk wasn't eligible for parole for 20 years.

    He was granted day parole in September 2007, then full parole in April 2008 with conditions. Waluk was in the community for a year until he and a second man were caught with almost 80,000 black market cigarettes in May 2009, landing him back behind bars and resulting in his full parole being revoked.

    Waluk pleaded guilty last October to possession of marked tobacco and possession of unmarked tobacco and ordered to pay fines of about $23,000 and a triple tax penalty of $45,750, court documents state.

    He told a NPB panel he was doing a favour for a friend.

    Documents indicate Waluk is committed to being released but there are concerns about his pattern of offending and an apparent need to help people and seek approval from negative peers.

    If released, Waluk would not look for work due to "medical limitations impacting (his) ability to work," according to documents.

    Waluk is a father of three but told a NPB panel he has no involvement in his grown children's lives.

    Allan Schoenborn had a very violent past, but nothing he had done before compared to when he killed his three children with a knife in their home in 2008. The courts ruled him not criminally responsible for the murders of his three children, but most of us felt that decision was made in error. It was very well known he was extremely angry with his ex-wife and his past was laced with violent episodes.

    Regardless of the entire story (which is horrific and maddening), it took only three years before 'advocates' had escorted leave on the plate for Schoenborn.

    Three years and we see fit for an escorted leave? Wow.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... ew-bc.html
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    speaking of monsters I read things like this and wonder what the fuck is wrong with some people....

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ls-2267126

    Its such a relief that the authorities were onto this lunatic before he got to act on his impulses. The alternative is just plainly unthinkable.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    pdalowsky wrote:
    speaking of monsters I read things like this and wonder what the fuck is wrong with some people....

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ls-2267126

    Its such a relief that the authorities were onto this lunatic before he got to act on his impulses. The alternative is just plainly unthinkable.

    So where do you sit with this, PD?

    I mean, for some it would seem that 27 years is a long time for a guy who never actually committed a murder. People who actually go out and do the things he was thinking about doing spend 30 years in Canada (Olson was eligible for parole after 15 years).

    Placing things in perspective:
    Rape, torture and kill 11 kids= 30 years.
    'Thinking about' killing and eating kids= 27 years.
    The fellow I linked in my last post (who butchered his three small children) was on escorted leave after three years.

    What should we expect for this bloke who hasn't even acted out on his impulses?

    Seems kind of disproportionate to me and I'm sure the legal process people would agree that the only thing this guy is guilty of is possession of child pornography and conspiring to commit an offence. In other words... he'd actually go have to do something before we should look at removing him from society with such a lengthy term. The rights people stand behind apply to all people and... I am assuming that some would agree that this guy is guilty of something much less deserved of 27 years in prison.

    There's no flexibility for common sense in the legal system.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    30 -

    where do I stand?

    whilst what you posted there makes a lot of sense.

    I am perfectly happy to see this man put away for as long as humanly possible. he is dangerous, pleased guilty, confirmed he intended to carry through his plans, and only the speed of law enforcement prevented it.

    I honestly don't care that he didn't manage to execute his plan, he is one sick individual, and I believe 27 years probably isn't enough, because someone of that mindset is horrendously deranged...

    I can only liken it to a suicide bomber who doesn't manage to mass murder through detonation because he is captured on his way to carry it out,......

    But again, I get what you say, I just wanted to answer as to where I personally stand.

    It is at times like that I have no problem with the level of intelligence being acquired and constant surveillance, its exactly that on this occasion that has prevented a young child becoming his dinner, and sexual toy.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Interesting stuff...(though a slightly misleading headline, as he will not be granted access to enter the actual university grounds at any time).

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... rsity-oslo


    Why Anders Breivik is welcome at our university

    Having been admitted to study political science, Breivik will have to read about democracy and justice



    Ole Petter Ottersen
    Theguardian.com, Thursday 12 September 2013



    Anders Breivik's application to the University of Oslo for admission to the political science study programme created interest worldwide. Breivik did not qualify for the full programme, but will be able study specific topics. Here the university's rector explains the decision to grant him access to the course.

    Through the atrocities he committed, Anders Breivik put to test our democracy and our legal institutions. The calm and reasoned way in which the Norwegian judiciary, the audience in the court room, and indeed the population in general dealt with Breivik, allowing him to be heard, indicates to me that we passed the test.

    Why should we not trust our system when it comes to access to education? Our rules say that an inmate, like any other citizen in this country, has a right to pursue higher education on the basis of merit. The fact that his application is dealt with in accordance with extant rules and regulations does not imply that Norwegians lack passion or that anger and vengefulness are absent. What it demonstrates is that our values are fundamentally different from his.

    By sticking to our rules and not clamouring for new ones we send a clear message to those whose misguided mission it is to undermine and change our democratic system. We do acknowledge that there are moral dilemmas in this case, but the last thing we need is a "lex Breivik". We keep to our rules for our own sake, not for his.

    It falls on our universities to take responsibility for upholding democratic values, ideals and practices, including when these are challenged by heinous acts. We are on a slippery slope should we change the rules and adjust them to crimes committed. Having been admitted to study political science, Breivik will have to read about democracy and justice, and about how pluralism and respect for individual human rights, protection of minorities and fundamental freedoms have been instrumental for the historical development of modern Europe. Under no circumstances will Breivik be admitted to campus. But in his cell he will be given ample possibilities to reflect on his atrocities and misconceptions.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    India gang rapists sentenced to death.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... cked-india

    Although many might disagree with the verdict, those closest to the case- outside of the men who are likely shitting their pants right now- are pleased that justice has been served. The courts called it the harshest sentence available to them- reflecting the disdain felt for the crime:

    “This has shocked the collective conscience of society,'' Judge Yogesh Khanna told the attackers, adding the “courts could not turn a blind eye” to such crimes as he handed down the harshest sentence available.

    The victim and father can find some comfort in the fact that these monsters were not afforded anything less than they deserved for their obscenity:

    "I am very happy our girl has got justice," said the 23-year-old victim's father, who cannot be named under Indian laws guarding his daughter's identity as a rape victim, told the Associated Press.

    Her family had earlier said their daughter's dying wish was for her attackers to be "burned alive.''

    The verdict has been handed down and the men will pay for their vile behaviour with their lives... but it will not erase a horrific incident that has sparked outrage all over the world. It's very frustrating that we can treat each other with such indifference.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Interesting stuff...(though a slightly misleading headline, as he will not be granted access to enter the actual university grounds at any time).

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... rsity-oslo


    Why Anders Breivik is welcome at our university

    Having been admitted to study political science, Breivik will have to read about democracy and justice



    Ole Petter Ottersen
    Theguardian.com, Thursday 12 September 2013



    Anders Breivik's application to the University of Oslo for admission to the political science study programme created interest worldwide. Breivik did not qualify for the full programme, but will be able study specific topics. Here the university's rector explains the decision to grant him access to the course.

    Through the atrocities he committed, Anders Breivik put to test our democracy and our legal institutions. The calm and reasoned way in which the Norwegian judiciary, the audience in the court room, and indeed the population in general dealt with Breivik, allowing him to be heard, indicates to me that we passed the test.

    Why should we not trust our system when it comes to access to education? Our rules say that an inmate, like any other citizen in this country, has a right to pursue higher education on the basis of merit. The fact that his application is dealt with in accordance with extant rules and regulations does not imply that Norwegians lack passion or that anger and vengefulness are absent. What it demonstrates is that our values are fundamentally different from his.

    By sticking to our rules and not clamouring for new ones we send a clear message to those whose misguided mission it is to undermine and change our democratic system. We do acknowledge that there are moral dilemmas in this case, but the last thing we need is a "lex Breivik". We keep to our rules for our own sake, not for his.

    It falls on our universities to take responsibility for upholding democratic values, ideals and practices, including when these are challenged by heinous acts. We are on a slippery slope should we change the rules and adjust them to crimes committed. Having been admitted to study political science, Breivik will have to read about democracy and justice, and about how pluralism and respect for individual human rights, protection of minorities and fundamental freedoms have been instrumental for the historical development of modern Europe. Under no circumstances will Breivik be admitted to campus. But in his cell he will be given ample possibilities to reflect on his atrocities and misconceptions.

    For the rest of the world it is hard to understand how a man who has murdered 77 people can be given such a lenient sentence - and be allowed to study at the tax payer's expense at one of the country's finest universities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24068206

    Yes. Very hard to understand. Here's a country that doesn't have the death penalty, yet it produced one of the earth's worst mass murderers on record. I thought these kinds of people only developed in the barbaric countries?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    whilst those courts 'couldn't turn a blind eye' I truly hope that means the authorities in India also decide not to do so moving forward.

    the case stinks of hypocrisy in a damaged legal system, and the hanging out to dry (pardon the expression) due to the world attention being focused on this particular case - therefore these men being made an example of.

    believe me I find them vile, disgusting and offensive, how any fellow human being can act towards another in the way they did is repulsive in its very nature, but there has to be consistency in the system, and from what I have read about India - it is very much missing.

    Still, a worst, todays sentence may prove to deter this kind of behaviour in the future .....MAY. I do hope that is the case.

    I just hope these mens allegations were not true of the way they were handled by the police, and that their convictions were sound......
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    pdalowsky wrote:
    whilst those courts 'couldn't turn a blind eye' I truly hope that means the authorities in India also decide not to do so moving forward.

    the case stinks of hypocrisy in a damaged legal system, and the hanging out to dry (pardon the expression) due to the world attention being focused on this particular case - therefore these men being made an example of.

    believe me I find them vile, disgusting and offensive, how any fellow human being can act towards another in the way they did is repulsive in its very nature, but there has to be consistency in the system, and from what I have read about India - it is very much missing.

    Still, a worst, todays sentence may prove to deter this kind of behaviour in the future .....MAY. I do hope that is the case.

    I just hope these mens allegations were not true of the way they were handled by the police, and that their convictions were sound......

    I would agree with you that these men are being made examples of to some degree. Given their brutality... I still don't feel anything for them. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to do what they did... they did what they did with great pleasure and that level of depravity and indifference towards human life is beyond words.

    I think the entire case might also have the effect you describe of applying some pressure to the brakes of a culture that seems to think very little of rape.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    For the rest of the world it is hard to understand how a man who has murdered 77 people can be given such a lenient sentence - and be allowed to study at the tax payer's expense at one of the country's finest universities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24068206

    Yes. Very hard to understand. Here's a country that doesn't have the death penalty, yet it produced one of the earth's worst mass murderers on record. I thought these kinds of people only developed in the barbaric countries?

    Good point.

    I would imagine many who are against the death penalty would be horrified by this sentence.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    pdalowsky wrote:
    whilst those courts 'couldn't turn a blind eye' I truly hope that means the authorities in India also decide not to do so moving forward.

    the case stinks of hypocrisy in a damaged legal system, and the hanging out to dry (pardon the expression) due to the world attention being focused on this particular case - therefore these men being made an example of.

    believe me I find them vile, disgusting and offensive, how any fellow human being can act towards another in the way they did is repulsive in its very nature, but there has to be consistency in the system, and from what I have read about India - it is very much missing.

    Still, a worst, todays sentence may prove to deter this kind of behaviour in the future .....MAY. I do hope that is the case.

    I just hope these mens allegations were not true of the way they were handled by the police, and that their convictions were sound......

    I would agree with you that these men are being made examples of to some degree. Given their brutality... I still don't feel anything for them. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to do what they did... they did what they did with great pleasure and that level of depravity and indifference towards human life is beyond words.

    I think the entire case might also have the effect you describe of applying some pressure to the brakes of a culture that seems to think very little of rape.

    we can only hope

    and re these men, im half inclined to agree with you - why should we care about their feelings when they so blatantly disregarded those of their victims.

    Its never as simple as that however, and due to the system over there, the way of life, the culture, the attitudes towards women that has been historical, although I feel nothing but disgust towards them, I wouldn't support their hanging.

    It is a sad state of affairs however that to get the change that is so desperately needed, to get that shock factor that can change an attitude that is so entrenched, men have to hang as an example to all.......
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JimmyV wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    For the rest of the world it is hard to understand how a man who has murdered 77 people can be given such a lenient sentence - and be allowed to study at the tax payer's expense at one of the country's finest universities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24068206

    Yes. Very hard to understand. Here's a country that doesn't have the death penalty, yet it produced one of the earth's worst mass murderers on record. I thought these kinds of people only developed in the barbaric countries?

    Good point.

    I would imagine many who are against the death penalty would be horrified by this sentence.

    Did even you read the article I posted above? Or did you read it and blank out all the information that doesn't fit your agenda?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    For the rest of the world it is hard to understand how a man who has murdered 77 people can be given such a lenient sentence - and be allowed to study at the tax payer's expense at one of the country's finest universities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24068206

    Yes. Very hard to understand. Here's a country that doesn't have the death penalty, yet it produced one of the earth's worst mass murderers on record. I thought these kinds of people only developed in the barbaric countries?

    Good point.

    I would imagine many who are against the death penalty would be horrified by this sentence.

    Did even you read the article I posted above? Or did you read it and blank out all the information that doesn't fit your agenda?

    I read it. I acknowledged the principles behind the university's position. I'm just in opposition to that way of thinking. I don't think a guy who goes and kills 77 kids should be in the position to receive state funded education at a university. He's not a citizen anymore. He denounced his citizenship when he didn't act like one and shot and killed all those young, innocent people.

    I mean, seriously... it's one thing to spare his life in light of his gross atrocities... it's quite another to roll out the red carpet for him.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    I read it. I acknowledged the principles behind the university's position. I'm just in opposition to that way of thinking. I don't think a guy who goes and kills 77 kids should be in the position to receive state funded education at a university. He's not a citizen anymore. He denounced his citizenship when he didn't act like one and shot and killed all those young, innocent people.

    I mean, seriously... it's one thing to spare his life in light of his gross atrocities... it's quite another to roll out the red carpet for him.

    Except he's not having a red carpet rolled out for him. And he won't be setting foot in any university. With any luck he'll realize what a deranged bastard he was murdering all those people. He'll have to spend the rest of his life living with what he did. Death would be too easy for him.

    Though I can fully understand why anyone would think he deserves to get nothing. Though it does place the society he lives in on a much higher footing than him, as opposed to the easy option of resorting to a further act of violence by executing him. It''ll be interesting to see how it turns out many years down the line.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    I read it. I acknowledged the principles behind the university's position. I'm just in opposition to that way of thinking. I don't think a guy who goes and kills 77 kids should be in the position to receive state funded education at a university. He's not a citizen anymore. He denounced his citizenship when he didn't act like one and shot and killed all those young, innocent people.

    I mean, seriously... it's one thing to spare his life in light of his gross atrocities... it's quite another to roll out the red carpet for him.

    Except he's not having a red carpet rolled out for him. And he won't be setting foot in any university. With any luck he'll realize what a deranged bastard he was murdering all those people. He'll have to spend the rest of his life living with what he did. Death would be too easy for him.
    Though I can fully understand why anyone would think he deserves to get nothing. Though it does place the society he lives in on a much higher footing than him, as opposed to the easy option of resorting to a further act of violence by executing him. It''ll be interesting to see how it turns out many years down the line.

    You might be right.

    I'm curious as to your last statement: what do you mean by interesting to see how it turns out many years down the line? How do you hope it turns out?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    I'm curious as to your last statement: what do you mean by interesting to see how it turns out many years down the line? How do you hope it turns out?

    I mean, whether he'll ever realize just what he did and the pain he caused. Whether he'll come to regret what he did and seek forgiveness from the family members, and members of Norwegian citizens in general. or if he'll continue spouting his racist bullshit till the day he dies.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    I'm curious as to your last statement: what do you mean by interesting to see how it turns out many years down the line? How do you hope it turns out?

    I mean, whether he'll ever realize just what he did and the pain he caused. Whether he'll come to regret what he did and seek forgiveness from the family members, and members of Norwegian citizens in general. or if he'll continue spouting his racist bullshit till the day he dies.

    Ultimately... does it matter?

    I'm not saying you are suggesting this (although you might be), but can we call his imprisonment and generous prison conditions- which includes a free education on the taxpayers' dime- a success if the maniac finally determines for himself that he was wrong to murder 77 young people in cold blood?

    He is scheduled to serve 21 years for killing 77 people. I'm sorry, but that is laughable.

    Norway educates their people for free as an investment in their country. This is a solid national program that other countries would do well to emulate, but how is educating it's worst criminal an investment? I mean... how exactly is Breivik going to contribute after receiving such a 'gift'?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    I'm not saying you are suggesting this (although you might be), but can we call his imprisonment and generous prison conditions- which includes a free education on the taxpayers' dime- a success if the maniac finally determines for himself that he was wrong to murder 77 young people in cold blood?

    He is scheduled to serve 21 years for killing 77 people. I'm sorry, but that is laughable.

    Norway educates their people for free as an investment in their country. This is a solid national program that other countries would do well to emulate, but how is educating it's worst criminal an investment? I mean... how exactly is Breivik going to contribute after receiving such a 'gift'?

    No, 'success' doesn't come into the equation.

    As for him conributing to society, nobody's expecting him to. He will simply be made to live with the burden of responsibility for what he did. That's all.

    And it's highly unlikely he'l be allowed to walk free after 21 years. There are clauses that apply which will prevent that from happening.

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