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Saying "NO!" to Brendan O'Brien

Soulfire42Soulfire42 Posts: 404
edited July 2013 in The Porch
More and more, we seem to have yet another member of Pearl Jam added to the band. Brendan O'Brien's influence on Backspacer was very heavy and full of cheez whiz. I have been griping about Brendan O'Brien's negative impact on the band's music for some time and cringed when I found out he'd be returning on Lightning Bolt. Backspacer was filled with tons of soft rock flourishes and things you can hear on your local store's muzak backgrounds and elevator stations.

I heard Mind Your Manners and was pleasantly surprised and thrilled to not hear O'Brien's usual wankery. I did something which is now seeming foolish... I got excited and thought O'Brien wouldn't once again pretend like he was the missing band member of Pearl Jam and push himself onto the record all over the place.

Then Wrigley field happened. Pearl Jam's phantom band member walked out on stage and played a song replete with trademark O'Brien soft rock wankery. Enough is enough with this guy who wants to be the long lost missing band member of Pearl Jam.

I'm not a huge fan of Boom's addition to the band, but I can stomach it much better than a guy who only appears on the albums and then takes the place of their touring keyboardist on stage for things like Wrigley's Future Days performance.

My excitement for this new album has went down the toilet and I'm fully expecting O'Brien's flaccid wankery all over the new album. Can't we have a Pearl Jam album again and not Pearl Jam and Brendan O'Brien's flourishes and soft rock stylings again on a record?

I strongly feel that it's long past time for Pearl Jam to consider working with a different producer who wants to produce their sound rather than be one of their band members and add his own music all over the top of theirs.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • YieldToNothingYieldToNothing Posts: 3,667
    cheers to you for starting a thread about music
    i agree with what you're saying but i think it's ed's fault more than anyone else. the new just breathe didn't do it for me either
    i have a paper here that entitles me to fast track status
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,300
    edited July 2013
    Well there is amuch more polite way of saying that.... But anyway, I don't really understand why Brendon is now playing keyboards when they already have a man on keys. I guess it is simply because they are all close friends and they like doing this kind of thing together. I figure that's a good enough reason for me. I don't mind as long as the music is good!

    That said, while I actually thought that song was really lovely and really enjoyed all the vocal parts, the keyboards at the end were pretty awful. They were practically tinkling. It sounded kind of stupid. But the rest of the song was really good IMO. At that moment I took a seat for the first and last time during the show, as did everyone around me pretty much, and I found it very soothing, which was just what I needed after such a crazy and physically taxing day and night. A little calm oasis where I could refresh physically and mentally (and then jangled out of it again at the end with those keyboards :lol: ); i will probably always think of that moment every time I hear that song from now on. :)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Stephen FlowStephen Flow Posts: 3,327
    Brendan O'Brien produced Vs., Vitalogy, No Code & Yield so I don't think he has much to do with it. He also provided keys for the Love Reign O'er Me studio recording AND remastered Ten like a fucking boss.... so I wouldn't blame him...

    I would maybe blame Ed, but who can fault a guy for writing from the heart when writing about personal matters? I'm speaking about Future Days here... I know people are going to dislike it and I can understand why (Ed solo song like JB & The End). He can't be that angst-ridden guy he was back in the early 90's... because he isn't in that frame of mind... hasn't been for a long time... ranting now but I'm hopeful that the album will be great.
  • EnterThanmanEnterThanman London, ON Posts: 1,057
    I don't know man, he also did Vs, Vitalogy, No Code, Yield, Evil Empire by Rage. Tough to pin the soft rock on him. I do agree it was weird for him to play at Wrigley.
    The member formerly known as Scratched Vinyl
  • majleap3majleap3 Posts: 208
    You do realize that BOB has produced or mixed every album except Pearl Jam since Vitology right? You also realize that it was BOB who pushed Eddie to consider Better Man on an album right? My point is his influence has been on this band long before Backspacer and I would suggest you look to Ed's personal happiness with his kids and significant other as the source of PJ's softer side and not BOB's influence because his influence was there on Last Exit and Corduroy and DTE and Habit and many many others before Just Breathe came along.
  • majleap3majleap3 Posts: 208
    Looks like we were all thinking the same thing and good point bringing up RATM. Didn't he do a System of the Down album too?
  • Stephen FlowStephen Flow Posts: 3,327
    majleap3 wrote:
    I would suggest you look to Ed's personal happiness with his kids and significant other as the source of PJ's softer side and not BOB's influence because his influence was there on Last Exit and Corduroy and DTE and Habit and many many others before Just Breathe came along.

    This is basically what I was trying to say. Thank you for posting this. :)
  • Stephen FlowStephen Flow Posts: 3,327
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O% ... roducer%29
  • CopTheRiotActCopTheRiotAct Posts: 953
    edited July 2013
    My favourite SOUNDING albums are

    riot act
    vs
    no code
    yield/binaural
    vitalogy

    in that order.

    The others have production flaws. I think riot act sounds perfect, which was produced by Adam Kaspar. who also did "down on the upside" which is also amazing. But then avocado, (also produced by him) sounds TERRIBLE..


    Pearl jam have been going for this really polished, but rough sound lately which just comes across as poor production.. mind your manners sounds harsh on the ears but is really clean at the same time. it should sound nice on the ears but with rough edges... i don't know but i've hated the production of the last 2 albums and know this new one will also sound bad. I'd give Adam Kaspar another go or try someone new like they did for binaural.


    P.S. i'm very thrilled on reports that EVs voice is improving.. so regardless of me complaining about their album production direction.. I'm very excited about future PJ as they are improving in some areas. :)
    Post edited by CopTheRiotAct on
    ...The Moon is Rollin' Round....
  • EnterThanmanEnterThanman London, ON Posts: 1,057
    majleap3 wrote:
    Looks like we were all thinking the same thing and good point bringing up RATM. Didn't he do a System of the Down album too?

    I actually don't think he did system, they've worked mostly with Rick Rubin. But he did do Mastadon's 'Crack The Skye' record, which is even crazier than SOAD.
    The member formerly known as Scratched Vinyl
  • ldent42ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    My new favorite word is 'wankery'. You mind if I use that? :)
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  • Soulfire42Soulfire42 Posts: 404
    I'm fully aware that B'O'B produced many albums with PJ, however, the cheez-infused additions layered heavily atop Pearl Jam's music and inserting himself as a missing PJ member with soft rock flourishes and "silly frilly" stuff that you'll not find in the rest of PJ's catalogue began at Backspacer. If you can't listen to Backspacer and hear B'O'B's heavy influence (by heavy... this time we're talking soft and frilly) all over the place then you'll simply not be able to come to any agreement with me. To me, it is obvious that Backspacer has musical additions that are out of place and that do not stem from the Pearl Jam lineup all over the place.

    Just because he worked with PJ in the past on better albums and with less of a need to insert himself as one of the band members does not mean that that hasn't changed and that he isn't having a negative impact on their current music or the music that was released on Backspacer.

    I feel that PJ needs to find a producer who wants to polish the band's own sound rather than enter the studio to be an additional band member with them and insert his own music over and into the band's work.

    I have absolutely no problem with soft music, soft Pearl Jam songs, etc. I do have a problem with the insertions of B'O'B and him becoming another member of Pearl Jam in the studio and then vanishing until they next record. I feel the band needs a producer who produces, not records instruments and his own performances with the band. I want a Pearl Jam record to be Pearl Jam, period. I'm not looking for Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien.

    When I listen to Backspacer I hear Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien. When I'm hearing new stuff from Lightning Bolt being performed, I'm literally now SEEING Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien. Enough is enough with this guy. Time for them to change up things and look for a new type of relationship with a producer. Again, it's not about my dislike of soft music or anything. I can dig soft music just fine, but not B'O'B's cheez-muzak stylings layered atop and into Pearl Jam's latest efforts.
  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 8,702
    edited July 2013
    Im glad theyre still recording at 50. They can get Neil Diamond to produce it for all i care. B.Obrien produces legends and awful bands. Just like any other big producer. Honestly i dont have a problem with him leaning them towards more friendly songs. Theyll always have weird complex ones to offset them
    Post edited by cp3iverson on
  • Soulfire42Soulfire42 Posts: 404
    duska3419 wrote:
    My new favorite word is 'wankery'. You mind if I use that? :)

    Feel free. Haha But I can't say that I was the first to use it. ;)
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,431
    cp3iverson wrote:
    Theyll always have weird complex ones to offset them

    ....except on Backspacer.

    I don't think it's Obrien's fault that he's a vastly superior musician to Boom and the band wants to give him props for his long history with them. From what I gather he's kinduva musical whiz and I don't think you can blame him for the final product.
  • Savage TongueSavage Tongue Posts: 580
    Take it how you will but he also worked with Train.

    Here's the BOB list according to Wikipedia.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O%27Brien_(music_producer)
    http://www.reverbnation.com/open_graph/song/1783688
    "Come take my hand, and let yourself rely.
    Don't hold your breath, don't close your eyes.
    I've learned to breath and I've learned to fly.
    I've learned to see and I know I'm going higher."
  • october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    People are going to shit on me for saying this but after both of the new songs debuted at Wrigley, my brother and I turned to each other and cringed. I leaned over to him and asked "what the hell happened to our band?"

    I hate saying this but I'm afraid LB may be the nail in the coffin for Pearl Jam for me personally. If I'm right, I still hope other people love it.

    Nothing can ever take away the music they've given us in years passed but in my opinion, Riot Act is the last "real" pearl jam album. I liked S/T but something changed during that record that I don't see them ever recovering from. They've lost that mysterious otherworldly quality they once had and the fault lies squarely with Ed. He's lost his point of view. He doesn't have the internal compass he once had. This happens to a lot of artists. Output changes as life moves on. Just so happens that the direction (or lack of it imo) that Ed is taking his song writing makes me want to blow my fucking brains out.

    Honestly, I hope no one agrees with me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just don't know where else to go to express how I feel. Sorry to be a downer.
  • mkay0mkay0 Posts: 45
    So, if BOB is supposedly cheesy, don't you think that is at the band's direction? He obviously has a track record of being able to do many different things, and he recently did Battle Born for the Killers, and I think that sounds great.
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  • klusterfukklusterfuk Posts: 1,411
    I'll digest the new album and go from there.
    The future's paved with better days

    Alpine Valley Resort is etched in my brain!!!


  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,280
    Soulfire42 wrote:
    I'm fully aware that B'O'B produced many albums with PJ, however, the cheez-infused additions layered heavily atop Pearl Jam's music and inserting himself as a missing PJ member with soft rock flourishes and "silly frilly" stuff that you'll not find in the rest of PJ's catalogue began at Backspacer. If you can't listen to Backspacer and hear B'O'B's heavy influence (by heavy... this time we're talking soft and frilly) all over the place then you'll simply not be able to come to any agreement with me. To me, it is obvious that Backspacer has musical additions that are out of place and that do not stem from the Pearl Jam lineup all over the place.

    Just because he worked with PJ in the past on better albums and with less of a need to insert himself as one of the band members does not mean that that hasn't changed and that he isn't having a negative impact on their current music or the music that was released on Backspacer.

    I feel that PJ needs to find a producer who wants to polish the band's own sound rather than enter the studio to be an additional band member with them and insert his own music over and into the band's work.

    I have absolutely no problem with soft music, soft Pearl Jam songs, etc. I do have a problem with the insertions of B'O'B and him becoming another member of Pearl Jam in the studio and then vanishing until they next record. I feel the band needs a producer who produces, not records instruments and his own performances with the band. I want a Pearl Jam record to be Pearl Jam, period. I'm not looking for Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien.

    When I listen to Backspacer I hear Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien. When I'm hearing new stuff from Lightning Bolt being performed, I'm literally now SEEING Pearl Jam with Special Guest Brendan O'Brien. Enough is enough with this guy. Time for them to change up things and look for a new type of relationship with a producer. Again, it's not about my dislike of soft music or anything. I can dig soft music just fine, but not B'O'B's cheez-muzak stylings layered atop and into Pearl Jam's latest efforts.

    I think you're exaggerating bob's influence on the band. Bob helps out on keys because boom is an organ player, and that just doesn't work for complex piano tracks such as Love Reign O'er Me, which is far far better with Bob than Boom in my opinion. Just because he occasionally helps out with things like that, does not by any means suggest that he is a marionette for a Pearl Jam puppet.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,300
    edited July 2013
    october22 wrote:
    People are going to shit on me for saying this but after both of the new songs debuted at Wrigley, my brother and I turned to each other and cringed. I leaned over to him and asked "what the hell happened to our band?"

    I hate saying this but I'm afraid LB may be the nail in the coffin for Pearl Jam for me personally. If I'm right, I still hope other people love it.

    Nothing can ever take away the music they've given us in years passed but in my opinion, Riot Act is the last "real" pearl jam album. I liked S/T but something changed during that record that I don't see them ever recovering from. They've lost that mysterious otherworldly quality they once had and the fault lies squarely with Ed. He's lost his point of view. He doesn't have the internal compass he once had. This happens to a lot of artists. Output changes as life moves on. Just so happens that the direction (or lack of it imo) that Ed is taking his song writing makes me want to blow my fucking brains out.

    Honestly, I hope no one agrees with me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just don't know where else to go to express how I feel. Sorry to be a downer.
    I don't think anyone can disagree with your statement that they've changed forever... After that, deciding whether or not it's a lateral move or a downward spiral depends completely on each person's personal taste. For me, I love ST a lot, and every album before it, and backspacer is only okay for the most part, and I love MYM, and don't feel able to form an opinion yet on the other two new songs at all aside from a positive but totally emotional positive reaction on Friday (tainted opinion maybe). I need to hear the album to judge it. Yes, they've changed, but depending on each person, change could be good or bad. I am personally very open to the band changing... For those who aren't, I can't say I totally understand the dismay, just because all of their past music still exists, and they still perform all.of it super well. All a couple of album s you don't like means is that you'll have a few more songs that you're not a fan of at each show, amongst a ton that you are. That doesn't seem so bad..... Not blowing your brains put bad, anyway. :lol:;) I mean, don't people who hate backspacer still love the shows? ... But I feel empathy for those suffering a sense of disappointment.

    I will point out, thpugh, that these changes aren't just with EV. Their albums are very much a collaborative effort, and every member of the band has to agree that a song is worth putting bon an album... It's hard to see people blaming it all on Ed if they are upset with the band's direction.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • bootlegbootleg Posts: 889
    Funny you brought this up. My immediate reaction after hearing LB at Wrigley was that I really liked the song. Seemed to have some harder edges, some Who style riffs. I thought to myself I hope BoB doesn't overproduce this thing. BoB produced a lot of great PJ but to me a lot of Backspacer seemed a little to busy (think album Speed of Sound vs demo Speed of Sound.). The demo had heart and the album version just covered it all up with synths. Well then of course he comes out for FD and I like this song as well except for the twinkling keys at the end so now I'm a little nervous as well.

    MYM is light years ahead of the fixer though as a first taste of the album. Seems to have a little harder sound than anything on BS so I'm still hopeful.
  • AdamcadoAdamcado Posts: 74
    Miss the rawer sound of No Code/Yield/Binaural/Riot Act era...

    Was hugely let down by Backspacer, I really hope Lightning Bolt's a good record.
    In a former forum life I was Cropduster84
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 13,791
    I will wait to hear the record before I form an opinion.
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,105
    klusterfuk wrote:
    I'll digest the new album and go from there.

    BINGO!!!!
  • KathiKathi Posts: 1,828
    i really liked lightning bolt. future days is potentially just breathe part 2, so far I like it better though...but I did think the keys on it were quite cheesy, and a bit "too much". a more stripped down version of the song would be better probably, but I won't make any judgements until I hear the record.
  • SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,054
    I fully expect him to go hard again on Lightning Bolt like he did on Backspacer - he wont be at every gig though so I'm sure a lot of the over produced songs (presuming that is what happens of course) will have a much healthier second life when played live.
    Nature drunk and High
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,164
    edited July 2013
    All I know is that my Bruce Springsteen crazy friend says that BoB destroyed two of his album with his producing.

    By I think the problem isn't all BoB. At least when it comes to Backspacer. My problems with that album is the lack of mystery, atmosphere and thoughthrough (is that a word?) lyrics.

    But I think the sound, aura, atmosphere of Riot Act and Binaural are great and that were not thanks to BoB... so the idea of Pearl Jam putting themselves in the hands of a producer with his/her own ideantity excites me.

    The same with Neil Young who also puts out boring album after boring album since pretty much Broken Arrow. The rumour of him working with Rick Rubin (whatever you think of him or his compressing-fetisch) excited me. And than BAM Neil young did that Le Noise album which was had a "cool" sound.

    BUT

    I like MYM alot.
    I think that Lightning Bolt sounds promising. But all these "building-and-building-and-then-chorus" songs such as Unthought Known and Amongst the waves... I don't know... If there are not as strong in the lyrics department and the chorus as Given To Fly, In Hiding or Garden... maybe they should be worked on more...
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UK Posts: 3,054
    Spiritual_Chaos wrote:
    all these "building-and-building-and-then-chorus" songs

    My wife is such a sucker for these types of songs - she couldn't give a toss about the lyrics. It drives me crazy. :lol:
    Nature drunk and High
  • Daron OshayDaron Oshay Middletown, NJ Posts: 2,565
    I think he was more of a special guest than anything
This discussion has been closed.