Saying "NO!" to Brendan O'Brien

DewieCox

Adamcado wrote:

Miss the rawer sound of No Code/Yield/Binaural/Riot Act era...

Was hugely let down by Backspacer, I really hope Lightning Bolt's a good record.

I'll give you the fact that BS is terribly overproduced, but Yield, Binaural and Riot Act are far from raw records. I think No Code and Vitalogy are by far their most straightforward albums when it comes to production, and alot of people are pointing to those albums when describing 2 of the 3 new tunes that we've heard.

DS107374

sward wrote:

My feeling is that the next person who listens to a modern Pearl Jam album wishing for a return to Ten or VS needs to punch in their ten club card and call it a career. That was 20 some years ago. Personally, I have zero expectations when new albums are created. Zero. It sounds like it sounds. I like it or I don't. When I create a playlist, I include the songs I like, I leave out the songs I don't. Pretty simple.

More to the point of the topic here. Brendan O'Brien is not writing the songs. He's working with the songs that are being given to him. Being a special guest on a song or two is NOT reflective of him having a world of say on the direction the band goes. Its the band people..the band!

Anyway..neither here nor there, I loved Backspacer, so my need to gripe is low. I also love MYM and Lighting Bolt. Future Days will have to grow on me, but I know MANY people who love Just Breath. So I'm hopeful this is going to be an other album that offers me a selection of songs for my PJ playlist ;-)

You said it perfectly. Good job.

Gern Blansten

I'm bitching a lot and I don't mean to. I love PJ and I think the WRigley and London shows were stellar

that being said....I have a hard time accepting the idea that their sound will evolve as much as it seems to have evolved on Backspacer. Mike even said that Lightning Bolt will be "much better than Backspacer" so I would guess the band isn't real keen on it either.

Soundgarden put out a great album less than a year ago....QOTSA put out a great album recently. I'm a big fan of those bands so I'll be disappointed if Lightning Bolt doesn't knock my socks off.

PJ_Soul

justam wrote:

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

I thought it was "odd" to kick Boom off and let BO'B take over. I know Boom isn't like a truly official member but to me it would be like letting someone else play drums for a song.

He was a guest. Like Mike handing over his guitar to someone coming in for a song.

I don't think that is so wrong or weird...

I think Boom's style of playing doesn't work as well on songs that require a more precise type if piano sound.

I think it was a beautiful song and all this complaining is rather strange. If you don't like the style of the song, that's fine because not everyone likes the same musical food but I think it's rude to make the gift of a new song a negative
experience for the musicians who gave it to you.

Yeah, I thought it was a really nice song too, excluding the bizarre tinkling keyboards at the end. I love the piano, and BB did a really good job up until that last part. I said out loud during the song that I was really enjoying it - it was soothing. But if people just want rock or stuff that sounds like older PJ, then yeah, I guess they'll be disappointed. I am personally really open minded about what PJ puts out, and also feel no need to get upset if I do dislike any songs they put out... I don't think there is any band or musician I've ever been a fan of who didn't create a few songs that I think are stinkers. My first PJ stinker was way back on Vitalogy and there is at least one on every album since then for me, and yet neither Ten nor Vs. are my top album choices, so a few songs i don't go for don't affect my overall feelings for artists or albums that I still love for everything else they've done. Can't please everyone all the time!

2-feign-reluctance

sward wrote:

My feeling is that the next person who listens to a modern Pearl Jam album wishing for a return to Ten or VS needs to punch in their ten club card and call it a career. That was 20 some years ago. Personally, I have zero expectations when new albums are created. Zero. It sounds like it sounds. I like it or I don't. When I create a playlist, I include the songs I like, I leave out the songs I don't. Pretty simple.


Very, very well said. Time to let it go - you can go throw on angry Pearl Jam any time (my favorite era too) though and recall it all. I love where the band is. Cheese Whiz is great by the way...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

how can one possibly surmise that "good PJ" had less of an influence from brendan o'brien than "bad PJ"? I agree with those that have said that Ed is probably in a completely different world than when he was in 1995. I know I am, as a person and a songwriter. Most of my songs back then were punk/metal, and now a lot of them are softer acoustic songs. It's a natural human progression to get less angry as you age. You begin to accept the world as it is, for better or worse, and live your life.

That being said, when I first heard Future Days, the intro and the outro especially, I was literally in disbelief and almost started to laugh out of surprise. Sorry, but the song sounds like it belongs in a montage at the end of a coming of age movie about teens moving on to college or something. Like watching all the kids dance at the prom on Beverly Hills 90210.

I loved Ed's Uke Songs. It was something different, something real. But his PJ ballads are something altogether different, and I don't like them. I have never liked Betterman, for example. Cheez whiz, to quote the OP. And they OPENED with it at Winnipeg 2005. I was NOT impressed!

Spags

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXwvL7n7NCQ

Eddie playing cards while Brendan produces...

Gern Blansten

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

how can one possibly surmise that "good PJ" had less of an influence from brendan o'brien than "bad PJ"? I agree with those that have said that Ed is probably in a completely different world than when he was in 1995. I know I am, as a person and a songwriter. Most of my songs back then were punk/metal, and now a lot of them are softer acoustic songs. It's a natural human progression to get less angry as you age. You begin to accept the world as it is, for better or worse, and live your life.

That being said, when I first heard Future Days, the intro and the outro especially, I was literally in disbelief and almost started to laugh out of surprise. Sorry, but the song sounds like it belongs in a montage at the end of a coming of age movie about teens moving on to college or something. Like watching all the kids dance at the prom on Beverly Hills 90210.

I loved Ed's Uke Songs. It was something different, something real. But his PJ ballads are something altogether different, and I don't like them. I have never liked Betterman, for example. Cheez whiz, to quote the OP. And they OPENED with it at Winnipeg 2005. I was NOT impressed!

agreed...although I like Betterman

I'm curious as to the process of putting Ed songs (Just Breathe, The End, etc.) on PJ albums. Do they all really agree that those are the best available songs to record? It's just my opinion of course as I realize that some really love songs like Just Breathe but it's a total mood killer to me. I want to jam and see the band play.

october22

Funny to me how some people think it's an argument for faster or harder or angrier... It's not about any of that!

It's about cool vs not cool. It's very simple.

I don't give a fuck if Ed sings about butterflies so long as it ends up being a cool song. Saying it's not 1992 anymore is a copout. Are people asking radiohead to remake their first albums? Not anymore, because radiohead has always remained fucking cool (and have gone through a much greater evolution than PJ and written far more "love songs"). That's what I want from a rock band. I need you to be fucking cooler than I am and realize that the Fixer is embarrassing without having to hear it from me. You should already know it. You can have as many kids and wives as you want but it's still your job to write cool shit. Having a wife and kids shouldn't be an excuse for making corny song writing choices.

That's how I see it anyway.

Adamcado

DewieCox wrote:

I'll give you the fact that BS is terribly overproduced, but Yield, Binaural and Riot Act are far from raw records. I think No Code and Vitalogy are by far their most straightforward albums when it comes to production, and alot of people are pointing to those albums when describing 2 of the 3 new tunes that we've heard.

When compared to Backspacer, Binaural and Riot Act sounds raw. Compare The Fixer to Save You...

But I agree, I think No Code has the best production of any PJ record...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

october22 wrote:

Funny to me how some people think it's an argument for faster or harder or angrier... It's not about any of that!

It's about cool vs not cool. It's very simple.

I don't give a fuck if Ed sings about butterflies so long as it ends up being a cool song. Saying it's not 1992 anymore is a copout. Are people asking radiohead to remake their first albums? Not anymore, because radiohead has always remained fucking cool (and have gone through a much greater evolution than PJ and written far more "love songs"). That's what I want from a rock band. I need you to be fucking cooler than I am and realize that the Fixer is embarrassing without having to hear it from me. You should already know it. You can have as many kids and wives as you want but it's still your job to write cool shit. Having a wife and kids shouldn't be an excuse for making corny song writing choices.

That's how I see it anyway.

actually, Ed did write about butterflies! "thoughts arrive like butterflies".

I didn't listen to radiohead at all during their Kid A/Amnesiac period. I was so happy when In Rainbows came out, then I hated them again when they released King of Limbs. Just not a fan of the electronic stuff. like you said, fast, slow, whatever, I just don't like that style of music.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Gern Blansten wrote:

agreed...although I like Betterman

I'm curious as to the process of putting Ed songs (Just Breathe, The End, etc.) on PJ albums. Do they all really agree that those are the best available songs to record? It's just my opinion of course as I realize that some really love songs like Just Breathe but it's a total mood killer to me. I want to jam and see the band play.

you can't have a whole album that is nothing but the same tempo. they use the 4 fast songs/5 mid-tempo songs/3 ballads formula, so it's probably just them saying "hey, Ed, we need a couple slow ones, what have you got?".

Gern Blansten

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

agreed...although I like Betterman

I'm curious as to the process of putting Ed songs (Just Breathe, The End, etc.) on PJ albums. Do they all really agree that those are the best available songs to record? It's just my opinion of course as I realize that some really love songs like Just Breathe but it's a total mood killer to me. I want to jam and see the band play.

you can't have a whole album that is nothing but the same tempo. they use the 4 fast songs/5 mid-tempo songs/3 ballads formula, so it's probably just them saying "hey, Ed, we need a couple slow ones, what have you got?".

I'm a big Rage fan....no ballads

october22

Gern Blansten wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

agreed...although I like Betterman

I'm curious as to the process of putting Ed songs (Just Breathe, The End, etc.) on PJ albums. Do they all really agree that those are the best available songs to record? It's just my opinion of course as I realize that some really love songs like Just Breathe but it's a total mood killer to me. I want to jam and see the band play.

you can't have a whole album that is nothing but the same tempo. they use the 4 fast songs/5 mid-tempo songs/3 ballads formula, so it's probably just them saying "hey, Ed, we need a couple slow ones, what have you got?".

I'm a big Rage fan....no ballads

Exactly! And Zack has often said that all of Rage's songs are love songs.

SICKMAN

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

Gern Blansten

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

yes Sir...

october22

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

october22 wrote:

Funny to me how some people think it's an argument for faster or harder or angrier... It's not about any of that!

It's about cool vs not cool. It's very simple.

I don't give a fuck if Ed sings about butterflies so long as it ends up being a cool song. Saying it's not 1992 anymore is a copout. Are people asking radiohead to remake their first albums? Not anymore, because radiohead has always remained fucking cool (and have gone through a much greater evolution than PJ and written far more "love songs"). That's what I want from a rock band. I need you to be fucking cooler than I am and realize that the Fixer is embarrassing without having to hear it from me. You should already know it. You can have as many kids and wives as you want but it's still your job to write cool shit. Having a wife and kids shouldn't be an excuse for making corny song writing choices.

That's how I see it anyway.

actually, Ed did write about butterflies! "thoughts arrive like butterflies".

I didn't listen to radiohead at all during their Kid A/Amnesiac period. I was so happy when In Rainbows came out, then I hated them again when they released King of Limbs. Just not a fan of the electronic stuff. like you said, fast, slow, whatever, I just don't like that style of music.

Right, so you didn't like the style change. That's totally fine and I understand that. But you never heard their fans make excuses like "well Thom is happy now and you should just be thankful for all he gives us!" That's fucking bullshit.

JimmyV

The "which do you want more, tour or new album" debate pops up every now and again around here and my answer is always a tour. Backspacer was disappointing and I don't have high hopes for Lightning Bolt. Not sure how much of that falls on BOB's shoulders. But the catalog as a whole is so good I still want to see them play live as often as I can.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

october22 wrote:

Right, so you didn't like the style change. That's totally fine and I understand that. But you never heard their fans make excuses like "well Thom is happy now and you should just be thankful for all he gives us!" That's fucking bullshit.

radiohead are/were a different animal than PJ though. They were never aggressive and angry and in your face. Ed was. a tortured soul to use a tired cliche. and Thom Yorke can do no wrong in the eyes of the radiohead fanbase. he could fart through a tuba for 3 hours and they'd call it ingenious.

I'm not saying be thankful for all Ed gives us, but I think, as a musician/songwriter myself, I know that the world surrounding you, whether that's a happy family, or drugs and loneliness and death, makes a huge impact on your songwriting. how could it not? the guy wrote about things in his life the entire time, most songs were autobiographical. he wrote about the dad he never knew, his strained relationship with his mother as a result, hating being famous, his friends dying of overdoses and suicides, then GWB, etc, so how does it not make sense that now he'd be writing songs about his daughters (Skipping) and his wife (pure conjecture) with Future Days?

my2hands

I personally thought Brendan O'Brien playing the keys for a new song at that show was pretty special... You won't see that too often