Saying "NO!" to Brendan O'Brien

Soulfire42

A few points I'd like to be sure to make.

1. Again, soft songs don't bother me. I did not post to complain for one second about soft/mellow songs.There are many "soft" songs in the PJ catalog that I absolutely love and that don't stray into cheez whiz. Sure, part of this may be the lyrics, but there is an undeniable element being recently added in the studio to songs by O'Brien. It's also an element that is largely missing as the songs are played in most live settings (unless O'Brien is present to bring back the cheez).

2. My post is about a producer, who is not a band member, increasingly behaving as if he were a band member and injecting his music into and on top of the band's music. This appears to be happening with increasing frequency both on studio efforts and actual live performances by the band. I view this as a detrimental trend for this particular band and many fans' potential enjoyment of their music. I think that Bob Rock had similar issues with Metallica, but I don't want to draw too many comparisons.

3. My post was not to complain about one stage appearance by O'Brien or one song's soft rock flourishes added by O'Brien in the studio. It is much more about an overall picture of a producer "infecting" many songs and now it appears to be multiple albums with his own music.

4. O'Brien appears to be continuing to add cheez whiz flourishes and musical embellishments that have never been a part of the Pearl Jam catalogue and which also are typically not present when the band is performing on stage without O'Brien on stage with them too. In other words, he's adding stuff atop and into songs that don't originate from the actual band and that the band doesn't continue doing when playing live so we're getting albums that aren't very reflective of the actual band's creative output.

5. I feel it would be very beneficial for PJ to work with a producer who simply wants to produce/polish the bands own sound rather than inject his own music and embellishments/flourishes into and on top of the band's music. Pushing the band's creativity is one thing (and something I'm not seeing much progress in lately... another argument against O'Brien for another day), but beyond all the cheez whiz studio additions to the band's music, O'Brien is increasingly acting like he's literally a long lost member of the band. Pointing out past performances of his with the band only serves to illustrate the odd and, I would say, detrimental behavior of him as a producer in regards to Pearl Jam.

6. I am not arguing against change/evolution of the band and its music. I'm arguing against a particular type of cheez whiz change being added and layered on top of the band's music by a foreign element I am identifying as O'Brien. Why do I say it is him? Because it is not nearly so present when he isn't around, because they are often studio additions that are not present when the songs are played live and because he is literally coming out on stage and showing us moments of cheez whiz he's created. Also, because he's the producer who could eliminate all these elvator rock flourishes and embellishments with a few clicks of the mouse.

7. O'Brien has had ample time to push the band creatively into inspiring territory and to get the band to focus its efforts on creating amazing Pearl Jam records. I think most would find it hard to call Backspacer an amazing PJ album and things are looking like they are continuing the "O'Brien trend" with soft rock cheez on Lightning Bolt from the early indications we have. So why not say no to O'Brien in the future and try a new direction if the band truly wants to experiment and push its music into some new territory? I'm not even trying to be picky about a producer to work with because I think almost anyone other than Skrillex or something would likely lead to an improvement. That's how bad I think O'Brien's recent influences on their studio efforts and lighter song compositions has been.

8. Just because O'Brien did not do the soft rock flourishes and embellishments on other albums or when producing other bands, it doesn't mean that he isn't doing it currently with Pearl Jam or did not do it on Backspacer. He is and he did.

/rant off Haha

CranMalReign

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

If this were to come to fruition, wonderful, unspeakable things would happen to me.

DewieCox

CranMalReign wrote:

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

If this were to come to fruition, wonderful, unspeakable things would happen to me.

As long as he brings Alain Johannes as engineer or production assistant, I'm all for it

Spiritual_Chaos

Trent Reznor should produce it... or Jack White... or why not Jim James...

BostonGaarden

I was writing this long explanation with justification and understanding, etc. Fuk it. Let's just say I agree wholeheartedly with the author - enough of Bredan O'Brien.

I'm sure there are ups and downs of his influence as noted, but for a Producer, I have to primarily judge by the latest work - sorry, his influence and the collective "sound" of BS was just a giant can of Cheese Whiz (stealing the analogy, luv it). Like spending a whole bunch of time polishing something that is aging quite well naturally - its just not needed.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Soulfire42 wrote:

A few points I'd like to be sure to make.

1. Again, soft songs don't bother me. I did not post to complain for one second about soft/mellow songs.There are many "soft" songs in the PJ catalog that I absolutely love and that don't stray into cheez whiz. Sure, part of this may be the lyrics, but there is an undeniable element being recently added in the studio to songs by O'Brien. It's also an element that is largely missing as the songs are played in most live settings (unless O'Brien is present to bring back the cheez).

2. My post is about a producer, who is not a band member, increasingly behaving as if he were a band member and injecting his music into and on top of the band's music. This appears to be happening with increasing frequency both on studio efforts and actual live performances by the band. I view this as a detrimental trend for this particular band and many fans' potential enjoyment of their music. I think that Bob Rock had similar issues with Metallica, but I don't want to draw too many comparisons.

3. My post was not to complain about one stage appearance by O'Brien or one song's soft rock flourishes added by O'Brien in the studio. It is much more about an overall picture of a producer "infecting" many songs and now it appears to be multiple albums with his own music.

4. O'Brien appears to be continuing to add cheez whiz flourishes and musical embellishments that have never been a part of the Pearl Jam catalogue and which also are typically not present when the band is performing on stage without O'Brien on stage with them too. In other words, he's adding stuff atop and into songs that don't originate from the actual band and that the band doesn't continue doing when playing live so we're getting albums that aren't very reflective of the actual band's creative output.

5. I feel it would be very beneficial for PJ to work with a producer who simply wants to produce/polish the bands own sound rather than inject his own music and embellishments/flourishes into and on top of the band's music. Pushing the band's creativity is one thing (and something I'm not seeing much progress in lately... another argument against O'Brien for another day), but beyond all the cheez whiz studio additions to the band's music, O'Brien is increasingly acting like he's literally a long lost member of the band. Pointing out past performances of his with the band only serves to illustrate the odd and, I would say, detrimental behavior of him as a producer in regards to Pearl Jam.

6. I am not arguing against change/evolution of the band and its music. I'm arguing against a particular type of cheez whiz change being added and layered on top of the band's music by a foreign element I am identifying as O'Brien. Why do I say it is him? Because it is not nearly so present when he isn't around, because they are often studio additions that are not present when the songs are played live and because he is literally coming out on stage and showing us moments of cheez whiz he's created. Also, because he's the producer who could eliminate all these elvator rock flourishes and embellishments with a few clicks of the mouse.

7. O'Brien has had ample time to push the band creatively into inspiring territory and to get the band to focus its efforts on creating amazing Pearl Jam records. I think most would find it hard to call Backspacer an amazing PJ album and things are looking like they are continuing the "O'Brien trend" with soft rock cheez on Lightning Bolt from the early indications we have. So why not say no to O'Brien in the future and try a new direction if the band truly wants to experiment and push its music into some new territory? I'm not even trying to be picky about a producer to work with because I think almost anyone other than Skrillex or something would likely lead to an improvement. That's how bad I think O'Brien's recent influences on their studio efforts and lighter song compositions has been.

8. Just because O'Brien did not do the soft rock flourishes and embellishments on other albums or when producing other bands, it doesn't mean that he isn't doing it currently with Pearl Jam or did not do it on Backspacer. He is and he did.

/rant off Haha

let me ask you directly: how can you be sure the cheez whiz is an act of BOB and not the band itself? he's only performed with them live a handful of times. you telling me that Future Days would be much better if Boom had played instead of O'Brian?

Spiritual_Chaos

How do people here feel about his work with Bruce Springsteen? Is it as bad as my friend said?

It_Wasnt_My_Surface

CranMalReign wrote:

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

If this were to come to fruition, wonderful, unspeakable things would happen to me.

Like Clockwork is a front to back fantastic album.

Running In The Dark

The reason I believe that O'Brien is playing on this song is that boom is not talented enough to do so.

DewieCox

Running In The Dark wrote:

The reason I believe that O'Brien is playing on this song is that boom is not talented enough to do so.

I don't know if that's the reason, but it's highly likely that O'brien is a better musician than any member of Pearl Jam. In an guitar magazine, Mike and Stone both agreed that he could do things on guitar that leave them shaking their heads. Though none of this accounts for taste.

jumbojet

It_Wasnt_My_Surface wrote:

CranMalReign wrote:

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

If this were to come to fruition, wonderful, unspeakable things would happen to me.

Like Clockwork is a front to back fantastic album.

Yes. The bar is set high. I like that this album comes to mind when people express their expectations for Lightning Bolt. Something that has depth, something that surprises you, something that shows the band put some thought in it.

I never understand that much in detail the details of making records, how much a producer is can affect the final product. For all I know, it is the creative process, a band that is willing to go the extra mile to create some music that will send the listeners to another world.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

DewieCox wrote:

Running In The Dark wrote:

The reason I believe that O'Brien is playing on this song is that boom is not talented enough to do so.

I don't know if that's the reason, but it's highly likely that O'brien is a better musician than any member of Pearl Jam. In an guitar magazine, Mike and Stone both agreed that he could do things on guitar that leave them shaking their heads. Though none of this accounts for taste.

Same with Bob Rock. He's a monster on guitar, but his songwriting is terrible. Anyone remember a band called Rockhead? didn't think so!

mk5877

Finally someone being honest here..thank you! Everyone was wondering who the special guest was going to be at Wrigley only to find out it was Burt Bacharach reincarnated doing a lite number on keys. The song is bad, the timing was worse.

Ledbetterman10

Soulfire42 wrote:

5. I feel it would be very beneficial for PJ to work with a producer who simply wants to produce/polish the bands own sound rather than inject his own music and embellishments/flourishes into and on top of the band's music. Pushing the band's creativity is one thing (and something I'm not seeing much progress in lately... another argument against O'Brien for another day), but beyond all the cheez whiz studio additions to the band's music, O'Brien is increasingly acting like he's literally a long lost member of the band. Pointing out past performances of his with the band only serves to illustrate the odd and, I would say, detrimental behavior of him as a producer in regards to Pearl Jam.

I think you're overestimating O'Brien's influence. Backspacer sucks because Pearl Jam wrote shitty songs. Any O'Brien "embellishments" were probably an attempt to make shit sound less shitty. But I doubt he has much influence on what songs are and what songs aren't recorded. Backspacer was Pearl Jam's "sound" circa 2008-2009 and its' because of Eddie. Not because Brendan O'Brien wanted to do more than produce/polish the band's sound.

grazman

Soulfire42 wrote:

A few points I'd like to be sure to make.

1. Again, soft songs don't bother me. I did not post to complain for one second about soft/mellow songs.There are many "soft" songs in the PJ catalog that I absolutely love and that don't stray into cheez whiz. Sure, part of this may be the lyrics, but there is an undeniable element being recently added in the studio to songs by O'Brien. It's also an element that is largely missing as the songs are played in most live settings (unless O'Brien is present to bring back the cheez).

2. My post is about a producer, who is not a band member, increasingly behaving as if he were a band member and injecting his music into and on top of the band's music. This appears to be happening with increasing frequency both on studio efforts and actual live performances by the band. I view this as a detrimental trend for this particular band and many fans' potential enjoyment of their music. I think that Bob Rock had similar issues with Metallica, but I don't want to draw too many comparisons.

3. My post was not to complain about one stage appearance by O'Brien or one song's soft rock flourishes added by O'Brien in the studio. It is much more about an overall picture of a producer "infecting" many songs and now it appears to be multiple albums with his own music.

4. O'Brien appears to be continuing to add cheez whiz flourishes and musical embellishments that have never been a part of the Pearl Jam catalogue and which also are typically not present when the band is performing on stage without O'Brien on stage with them too. In other words, he's adding stuff atop and into songs that don't originate from the actual band and that the band doesn't continue doing when playing live so we're getting albums that aren't very reflective of the actual band's creative output.

5. I feel it would be very beneficial for PJ to work with a producer who simply wants to produce/polish the bands own sound rather than inject his own music and embellishments/flourishes into and on top of the band's music. Pushing the band's creativity is one thing (and something I'm not seeing much progress in lately... another argument against O'Brien for another day), but beyond all the cheez whiz studio additions to the band's music, O'Brien is increasingly acting like he's literally a long lost member of the band. Pointing out past performances of his with the band only serves to illustrate the odd and, I would say, detrimental behavior of him as a producer in regards to Pearl Jam.

6. I am not arguing against change/evolution of the band and its music. I'm arguing against a particular type of cheez whiz change being added and layered on top of the band's music by a foreign element I am identifying as O'Brien. Why do I say it is him? Because it is not nearly so present when he isn't around, because they are often studio additions that are not present when the songs are played live and because he is literally coming out on stage and showing us moments of cheez whiz he's created. Also, because he's the producer who could eliminate all these elvator rock flourishes and embellishments with a few clicks of the mouse.

7. O'Brien has had ample time to push the band creatively into inspiring territory and to get the band to focus its efforts on creating amazing Pearl Jam records. I think most would find it hard to call Backspacer an amazing PJ album and things are looking like they are continuing the "O'Brien trend" with soft rock cheez on Lightning Bolt from the early indications we have. So why not say no to O'Brien in the future and try a new direction if the band truly wants to experiment and push its music into some new territory? I'm not even trying to be picky about a producer to work with because I think almost anyone other than Skrillex or something would likely lead to an improvement. That's how bad I think O'Brien's recent influences on their studio efforts and lighter song compositions has been.

8. Just because O'Brien did not do the soft rock flourishes and embellishments on other albums or when producing other bands, it doesn't mean that he isn't doing it currently with Pearl Jam or did not do it on Backspacer. He is and he did.

/rant off Haha

maybe you should apply to be producer for the next record, kick this evil BOB out on his ass and show them how it really should be done. :fp: Seriously, I like how they are experimenting and trying something different with their albums each time rather than everything sounding like Ten or No Code. Backspacer for me was too poppy and mainstream but MYM sounds much more like the old PJ. Wait till the album comes out and you've heard it until you start whining and ranting.

SICKMAN

It_Wasnt_My_Surface wrote:

CranMalReign wrote:

SICKMAN wrote:

I say the next thread should be a petition to bring Josh Homme onboard for a future production

- Like Clockwork - ......now that's a strong piece of work, album of the year IMO

If this were to come to fruition, wonderful, unspeakable things would happen to me.

Like Clockwork is a front to back fantastic album.

now lets see....umm..

damn...

wouldn't ya know it...I've lost Eddies number

how do we go about relayin' this request to the band

Stone stopped answerin' my calls a long time ago

cross7806

As the band ages and I do to. I like the mature emotionally charged music more then the anger charged music. Don't get me wrong I love the old records but I love the new ones just as much. I understand and accept that they are in totally different places in their lives as I am myself. Being married with children now. I absolutely loved Future Days. I personally love Backspacer and ST. You can't always be stuck in the past you have to live and accept the present. I'm just grateful that my favorite band is still making music and doing shows that make me cry,laugh,dance and think all in the same record or show. So I have to say I disagree with your sentiment.

PU38569

october22 wrote:

People are going to shit on me for saying this but after both of the new songs debuted at Wrigley, my brother and I turned to each other and cringed. I leaned over to him and asked "what the hell happened to our band?"

I hate saying this but I'm afraid LB may be the nail in the coffin for Pearl Jam for me personally. If I'm right, I still hope other people love it.

Nothing can ever take away the music they've given us in years passed but in my opinion, Riot Act is the last "real" pearl jam album. I liked S/T but something changed during that record that I don't see them ever recovering from. They've lost that mysterious otherworldly quality they once had and the fault lies squarely with Ed. He's lost his point of view. He doesn't have the internal compass he once had. This happens to a lot of artists. Output changes as life moves on. Just so happens that the direction (or lack of it imo) that Ed is taking his song writing makes me want to blow my fucking brains out.

Honestly, I hope no one agrees with me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just don't know where else to go to express how I feel. Sorry to be a downer.

Sorry, I agree with you. But you knew that already.

Lightning bolt is boring, future days is lame. mYm gets the job done fine, I think he best we can hope for is just like 1-2 more songs that will pan out live, and that don't suck, that get thrown into the live show repertoire with the old stuff, so the live show doesn't totally suck.

I was excited because of mYm. But if lightning bolt is the title track then I guess we know where the rest of this is going. It's just boring. It's not interesting. It's not thoughtful. It's more of the same new PJ crap.

4 years for that? Just didn't sound like a whole lotta thought went into that. But we'll what else the rest of the new album has in store.

When is this McCready "this sounds like pink floyd" comment gonna start making sense... ?

Sorry you had to witness this crap in person. Maybe 10c can give you a comp ticket to see Soundgarden in one of the Nordic countries so you can be reminded of what good music sounds like.

scratched vinyl

BostonGaarden wrote:

I was writing this long explanation with justification and understanding, etc. Fuk it. Let's just say I agree wholeheartedly with the author - enough of Bredan O'Brien.

I'm sure there are ups and downs of his influence as noted, but for a Producer, I have to primarily judge by the latest work - sorry, his influence and the collective "sound" of BS was just a giant can of Cheese Whiz (stealing the analogy, luv it). Like spending a whole bunch of time polishing something that is aging quite well naturally - its just not needed.

Do you guys honestly think he would be adding his flourishes without the consent of, and even at the request of, Pearl Jam? I don't think it matters what producer is in the chair, those added elements will be there regardless.

scratched vinyl

october22 wrote:

Nothing can ever take away the music they've given us in years passed but in my opinion, Riot Act is the last "real" pearl jam album. I liked S/T but something changed during that record that I don't see them ever recovering from. They've lost that mysterious otherworldly quality they once had and the fault lies squarely with Ed. He's lost his point of view. He doesn't have the internal compass he once had. This happens to a lot of artists. Output changes as life moves on. Just so happens that the direction (or lack of it imo) that Ed is taking his song writing makes me want to blow my fucking brains out.

Honestly, I hope no one agrees with me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just don't know where else to go to express how I feel. Sorry to be a downer.

I wish I didn't have so many of these same thoughts myself.