Canadian Politics

PJ_Soul wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

But if Harper and Ford built you windmills all over the country you'd give them passing grades, even though every politician and every party is questionable.

Actually, in the US, everyone loves wind turbines until they live near them, at which point everyone gets angry again. The same thing would probably happen here.

It has happened here in Ontario ... Many rural people are upset ... The only ones who aren't are the farmers who receive huge cheques.

Still trying to figure out what that windmill down by the lake in Toronto.

of course they will, she knows the ndp will never govern ontario again ... this is the only way she has any power ... ridiculous ... of course she could have done the right thing, not back the budget and let the people decide.

Gas plant controversy: NDP will still back Liberal budget despite email deletion scandal

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/ ... andal.html

The Liberals’ budget is set to pass Tuesday despite Progressive Conservative attempts to shame the New Democrats into defeating it over the gas-plant email controversy.
Conservative MPP Vic Fedeli charged that the NDP is being hypocritical by backing the minority government’s spending plan instead of triggering a July election over the $585-million power-plant debacle.
“(NDP Leader) Andrea Horwath calls them liars and corrupt in the morning and supports their budget in the afternoon,” Fedeli (Nipissing) said Monday.
“I don’t understand that motivation,” he said, noting Ontario Provincial Police are now looking into the Liberals’ deletion of emails related to the plants in Mississauga and Oakville that were cancelled for political reasons.
“If they’re corrupt as we all agree they are then we have to call them on the carpet for that.”
Horwath countered that “the Tories are only looking after their own interests,” while the New Democrats are concerned about the greater good.
She said that’s why her party ensured the Liberal budget reduced auto-insurance premiums by 15 per cent, improved home-care health services, boosted youth jobs, and contained new accountability measures.
“The caucus is pretty proud of the work we’ve been able to do,” she said, adding it was the NDP that sparked Information and Privacy Commissioner Ann Cavoukian’s report last week decrying the deleted emails.
Horwath pointed out the New Democrats also forced the Liberals to create an independent financial accountability office to oversee government spending and increasing transparency.
“It’s a layer of scrutiny and accountability that will be there not just with this government but with every government going forward,” she said, calling the budget watchdog “a huge gain for Ontarians.”
Finance Minister Charles Sousa said the passing of the budget Tuesday afternoon would send a positive signal to credit-rating agencies.
“They want stability, they want to make sure that we’re on our plan,” said Sousa, stressing “it’s critical” to enact the spending plan, which will likely be the final order of business before the legislature rises until September.
“We have a number of items in the budget that are time sensitive.”
If the NDP had not backed the minority Liberals’ fiscal blueprint, Ontario would have been plunged into a summer election.
Tory MPP Rob Leone (Cambridge) said such a vote is needed to clear the air at Queen’s Park and “let the people of Ontario finally have their say on whether this scandal-plagued government should continue.”
Officials in former premier Dalton McGuinty’s administration were criticized by Cavoukian last week for illegally destroying emails pertinent to the power plants.
That led to the Tories contacting the OPP on Friday and McGuinty, who remains Ottawa South MPP, issuing a statement insisting he knew nothing about the destruction of any records.
Wynne reminded the house Monday that things have changed since she succeeded him in February.
“We have taken steps to make sure that political staff are aware of their responsibilities,” the rookie premier said.
“There has been mandatory training put in place, as I’ve said. We have changed the protocols around the retention of information.”

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Still trying to figure out what that windmill down by the lake in Toronto.

it is generating electricity ...

granted the project is somewhat symbolic in that it only generates enough electricity for about 100 homes a year or a million kwh ... but it's also doing is combating myths ... it is very quiet ... it's not massacring birds and no one is getting sick living near it ... it serves the purpose of being educational as i used to run tours of the turbine ... what better way to disprove some myths than to build one in a downtown urban environment ...

it is also based on a for profit company which funded the project and offers dividends to its shareholders ... some of those shares were donated to the foodbank and other charities where they are getting money out if ...

the turbine also displaces almost 400 tons of carbon every year ... it's something ...

Why did they stop with one ... why didn't they place 400 or so along the lakeshore or in the lake like they tried to do down here.

and improperly placed they can be harmful to migrating birds. they tried to place some in lake erie and the place they were to place them was in the path of migratory birds ... or so the birders were chirping about.

either way not important enough of an issue to me.

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Why did they stop with one ... why didn't they place 400 or so along the lakeshore or in the lake like they tried to do down here.

and improperly placed they can be harmful to migrating birds. they tried to place some in lake erie and the place they were to place them was in the path of migratory birds ... or so the birders were chirping about.

either way not important enough of an issue to me.

the biggest obstacle for wind production was tapping into existing hydro lines ... there wasn't a lot of co-operation for small independent ventures like windshare (which is owned by the public) ... i bought a share and all the dividends we get, we donate ...

outside of a couple of key parts made in netherlands, the one at the CNE was all manufactured in ontario ... the reality is that we should be placing windmills everwhere we can ... even in migratory bird paths - you just shut them down for that period of time ... it's only gonna get windier over time with global warming ...

I'm not opposed to windmills. I'm opposed to how the government went about it.

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

C+ is pretty generous for a a guy/political party that cost the taxpayer in the neighbourhood of 600 million to save 2 seats.

i guess C+ is technically a pass ... but i'm gonna judge on the overall outcome ... i think he inherited a mess ... i think he made progress in education, health care and trying to shift the economy to be a bit more green ... was he 100% successful? ... not even close but he made some inroads ... obviously, the gas plant thing and some strikes and the teachers thing are huge X's but you can't judge them on those things alone ...

after 10-11 years no longer can the previous government be blamed.

just because one inherits a mess should not give anyone the right to leave the next person an even bigger mess.

our health care is no better today than it was 10 years, 15 years or 20 years ... except they wasted billions in ehealth, ornge etc. education ... want to impress me ... overhaul the system (take a look a the swiss system - lowest you unemployment rate), all they did was throw piles of cash at the teachers and the system, billions spent on green energy and most of those green energy jobs he was touting with his samsung deal never materialized and most of those green energy plants are no where near the production that was was being shouted from the roof top by the liberals.

This government has been disastrous ... they have run record deficits for what the last 4 years and wasted how many billions and the had the nerve to basically spend 600 million of taxpayer $$$$ to save 2 liberal seats.

I don't like any political parties but if this was Harris or Harper or Ford had done that ... never would have heard the end of it.

Politics is plain corrupt.

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

I don't like any political parties but if this was Harris or Harper or Ford had done that ... never would have heard the end of it.

Politics is plain corrupt.

what? ... you calling me partisan? ... that's funny cuz when we first started having discussions you were as conservative as it gets ... i've never voted liberal in any provincial election nor federal as far as i can recall ...

if you think it's been a disaster ... that's your opinion ... i objectively feel it hasn't ... harris took us down the drain in a period of economic boom while mcguinty has had to reside over a global economic crisis ... it's not absolving him of his mistakes in any way but when one evaluates - they have to factor in the good too ...

Not really calling you partisan ... but when Harris ran a shitty government it's still being brought up. As far as I'm concerned every government in Ontario since the late 80's does not have much to be proud of.

Every government is going to have it's ups and down ... it's how those down time are dealt with and no government in Ontario did a particularly great job ... but Mcguinty is worst by far ... imo ... he had record tax revenues in his first term and spent every dime of of it ...

As far as me being a conservative ... I don't label myself and if were to I am definitely fiscally conservative. I've stated before imo government massive deficits are a bad a thing, in 10 years the liberals have nearly doubled Ontario's debt :fp:. All that money future governments are going to have to pay in debt repayment and servicing the debt is just going to be brutal. They were banking on the manufacturing recovering . Those revenues they enjoyed up till 2008 are likely gone for ever.