Greyhound Bus Cannibal rehabilitated after 4 years?

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

if you have any actual data on how the mentally insane are overly funded, then I'd love to see it. All I can tell so far, is that you just believe it's over funded because you don't believe in its cause. a monster is a monster is a monster in your eyes.

I just don't see it that black and white. And I never will.

I can tell you that the programming and funding for abused children is in serious need of help. I can tell you that any funding outside of meals, television, and basic medications is too much for a person such as Li.

We had a person move into our community from a neighbouring province. He was arrested and rehabilitated for plotting to kidnap, rape and kill some co-eds from a university. Deemed mentally ill (of course) no identity was released to protect his integrity as he was to get his fresh start that the awesome therapists thought he needed. He- you guessed it- kidnapped a girl in our community and raped her at knife point. At least he never killed her, eh? This story is not unique and you know it's not.

Well done doctors and lawyers that insisted he was a changed man who had made so much progress. Well done. Now go push the next violent offender to the streets as you pat yourselves on the back and marvel at your fantastic therapeutic work. "What a session! Did you see him nod his head when I asked him if he thought it was wrong to eat the guy next to him on the bus?"

Bronx Bombers wrote:

Hopefully the people who are escorting this nutjob are armed in case he goes off again.

JBii wrote:

Bronx Bombers wrote:

WINNIPEG, Manitoba - A man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada won his bid to leave the grounds of the mental hospital where he is being kept, a criminal review board ruled Thursday.

The Criminal Code review board said Vince Li's treatment team may grant him short escorted trips into the central Canadian city of Selkirk, Manitoba. The review board said the passes will start at 30 minutes and increase incrementally to a maximum of full days.

Li was found not criminally responsible for the July 2008 death of Tim McLean, a young carnival worker who was sitting next to Li on a bus near Portage la Prairie.

The board said the passes should only be granted if Li's treatment team believes his condition is stable and that it would be "appropriate and safe for him to leave the locked ward." He will have to be escorted at all times by a staff member and a security officer.

"It's terrible. It's disgusting," Nadine McLean, the victim's stepmother, said Thursday after she learned about the decision. "It's kind of a waste going to the review board every year when he's going to get whatever he asks for."

Carol DeDelley, the victim's mother, also called it unacceptable and vowed to continue her efforts to fight the law dealing with people found not criminally responsible.

"My son died this way to shed light on the issue," DeDelley told reporters. "I'm not stigmatizing mental issues. If he's doing well in a controlled environment with regularly administrated medications leave him there ... but freedom for him? I don't think that should ever be an option."

The passes can be issued starting May 24.

Li was initially confined to a locked wing of the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, but in 2010 was given the right to escorted walks on the hospital grounds.

Li's psychiatrist said the 44-year-old has responded well to treatment and asked the review board earlier this week to let Li take trips into town.

McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li, a stranger who was sitting beside him, suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. As the bus stopped and horrified passengers fled, Li carved up McLean's body and ate portions of it.

A judge was was told at Li's trial four years ago that Li was an untreated schizophrenic.

As part of this year's review, Li's psychiatrist, Dr. Steven Kremer, described Li as a model patient, who has shown no security risks and who has participated in treatment programs and taken up odd jobs at the hospital.

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson announced he asked officials to review the Criminal Code section dealing with people found not criminally responsible. He said public safety must come first.

Li emigrated from China in 2001 and worked menial jobs in Canada.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z1vE6O7dG4

This is a disgrace, how is this possible?

sick ass story what about the victims family? crazy shit

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Regardless of whether Li is mentally ill- or if someone else is: impaired because the bartender served him too much/ enraged with anger over an affair/ just fired from his job/ driven to despair over a poor quality of life/ failing at university/ had a poor upbringing/ or whatever- some tend to look past the crime and rationalize it with whatever explanation might best be offered to explain the outburst.

I'll say this one last time: mental illness is not a fucking excuse. it's a condition. you can NOT lump mental illness in with the other situations you mentioned. you are doing nothing but minimizing the condition and further perpetuating the stigma that people like me are trying so hard to erase.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I'll say this one last time: I can lump every vicious, savage, horrific and brutal murder together if I choose. Murder is murder. I don't give a shit what circumstances have contributed to someone carving up, mutilating and eating an unsuspecting kid on a bus. Neither do the kids' parents. You never spoke to that aspect of my post. Do you think it's fair they should be subjected to appearing before boards to oppose full day passes? Remember they are to start at 30 minutes and if it appears he has lost his cannibalistic ways... they will increase to full days?

Get over yourself. I'm not minimizing mental illness as much as you are minimalizing murder and consequences. Keep trumpeting the horn for Li. I'll do the same for McLean and his parents.

get over myself? how nice. nice to see that's where you've taken this. next thing you know you'll be advocating for the death sentence for the mentally challenged too. good for you. glad you enjoy vengeance over justice. you clearly don't understand the difference.

I'm done with debating this with you.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Justice and vengeance are the same- don't mistake that, Hugh. And speaking of justice... you think it is justice for McLean and his parents that four years after his crime, Li begins to receive day passes with state funded Starbucks and mall trips? You haven't really responded to anything I have said regarding how the system is failing them given the fact they must actively oppose the board hearings which seem determined to have Li enjoy some of the things his victim can no longer enjoy. I know why though: I mean how does one say, "Fuck them. That incident is in the past. Let's move on to making Li better."

It hasn't been lost on me that your feelings towards this case at a minimum seem to be generated from a personal perspective where you have shared with everyone the first hand difficulties one might have with a mental illness. Has it ever occurred to you that some on this board might have first hand difficulties with the pain of being a survivor of a violent murder? Do you think these people should 'buy in' to your mentality because yours is fluffy and warm compared to cold and barbaric (the obvious point you were trying to make casting me as callous for likely wanting the death penalty for Li)?

the reason I'm done debating this issue with you is because the above post shows you have listened to nothing I have said. When have I ever been "fluffy and warm" to Vince Li? I am not advocating for his release. EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. You even acknowledged that a page or two back, but now you, whenever is convenient, paint me as a Vince Li sympathizer. You have to understand the difference between me feeling for the man and understanding the situation.

I haven't addressed your "how the system if failing them" questions because I addressed them. There's no easy answer. For anyone. You paint it as black and white, I think this case stinks of grey. Had Vince Li been drunk or high or just raging but in a frame of mind where he knew what he was doing was wrong, yes, lock him up and throw away the key. But mental illness is a whole different animal, and the justice system obviously agrees, since those safeguards have been in place for decades.

Justice and vengeance are NOT the same. I am not mistaken.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh, grey doesn't work very well for the McLeans. I'm all the way in their corner with their position. You are somewhere in between: this fact doesn't make me an ogre and it doesn't make you a softy. The poignant question I asked you that you never responded to was, "Do you think it is fair that McLean's parents must actively oppose and protest rehabilitation treatment for Li given what happened to their child?" This question I would like to hear your response to and if you already did respond to it... please show me where so I may apologize for goading you.

We'll have to agree to disagree to the last statement which contrasted mine. I stand by my assertion that justice and vengeance are ultimately the same. Any form of retribution when responding to a crime can be viewed as both depending on how one would like to frame it.

no, it doesn't. it rarely does for the family of the victims. but, the justice system is not set up entirely to appease the masses. and rightly so. there are different facets to the reasons of incarceration: punishment, rehabilitation, and public safety. there are many criminals that are not able to be rehabilitated. Vince Li's doctors think he is a very good candidate for rehabilitation. I don't know if I agree. I always assumed that someone who is that far gone mentally took a LONG time to come back from it. and to come far enough away from it as to not be at risk of slipping again.

again, he will likely never be free like you and I. He will always been under some supervision.

as to your question: yes, it is right that they have to do this. this is what happens in a free society. if they feel wronged, they are allowed to appeal and oppose any position they feel is incorrect. see, they aren't the victims of a stalker. they aren't opposing his release because they feel they'd be in any danger themselves. they just want him locked up for what he did to their son. and sure, of course I'd be of the same mind as them. I kind of still am. but it also wouldn't be just to keep someone locked up merely for the fact that someone is uncomfortable with them being released. that's why we have juries, and not lynch mobs. that's why we have judges, not executioners who play all 3.

let me ask you: keeping in point where the justice system does not punish those who are found not criminally responsible, what is the point of keeping someone locked up if a TEAM of respected health professionals believe he is rehabilitated?

if he's not to be punished, he is rehabilitated, and he's not a danger to society, how is it just to keep him locked up?

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

edit: but I will add one question, and this may be hard for some to digest: you say it is not fair to the McLeans. you are absolutely correct. but is it fair to Li that he is being punished for having a disease beyond his control? that's not such an easy answer.

and to answer your question about the doctors.........one of them actually stated about a year ago that he would completely comfortable having Li as a guest in his own home. That reeks confidence of his position.

believe it or not, as I've said countless times, whether it is obvious to others or not, I'm also in the corner of the wronged. all of the wronged.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I'll say this one last time: I can lump every vicious, savage, horrific and brutal murder together if I choose. Murder is murder. I don't give a shit what circumstances have contributed to someone carving up, mutilating and eating an unsuspecting kid on a bus. Neither do the kids' parents. You never spoke to that aspect of my post. Do you think it's fair they should be subjected to appearing before boards to oppose full day passes? Remember they are to start at 30 minutes and if it appears he has lost his cannibalistic ways... they will increase to full days?

Get over yourself. I'm not minimizing mental illness as much as you are minimalizing murder and consequences. Keep trumpeting the horn for Li. I'll do the same for McLean and his parents.

So in your mind is there any difference between murder and manslaughter? Because my understanding is that murder requires intent. And how can you have any intent if you have an illness? Like I said to me it is no different than if someone gets into a car accident and kills someone because they have an illness. We don't charge them with murder either.