minimum wage (part II)

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  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Kel Varnsen wrote:

    Complaints about "losing jobs" to workers overseas always bug me. It seems so self-centered. I mean I would way rather be unemployed in the US or Canada, than be unemployed in Indonesia or China or Mexico. People in those countries need jobs too.


    I would rather not be unemployed at all because my company gave my job to someone in China.

    What makes it "your job" and not just a job?

    And what would he do if he was laid off from "his" job tomorrow and forced to work a minimum wage job?
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Any job I do is my job. And I don't want to lose my job to anyone, let alone someone overseas.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Any job I do is my job. And I don't want to lose my job to anyone, let alone someone overseas.

    What difference does it make if you lost your job to someone over seas, or someone in a different town or someone who lives on your street? Either way you still have to find a new job. And as far as the job being your job, when you started that job, did you make sure you weren't taking it from someone else?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i wouldn't buy weed legally if it were $200 a 1/4 bag. no. they could be selling 1/4 for $50 all day & all night long 365 days a year & make soooo much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ their heads would be spinning

    but nooooo let's give our jobs to overseas countries as well as we'll need our marijuana from mexico & canada & elsewhere screwing over our talented farmers in our own flippin back yard

    And why are we losing jobs to overseas markets? In part, because of the minimum wage laws in this country.

    Another argument for minimum wage.

    How can you expect wages set by employers to have positive results? Companies continually show they care very little for the common worker's welfare by exploiting the labourers in countries that allow for such exploitation.

    Come on, man. This argument is dumb: another frustrating thread on the MT that shows how far the mentality of the people still needs to come before society will ever begin to progress. Obviously not in my lifetime.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Those countries you lose jobs to... they need some form of minimum wage as well.

    Not to mention safer working conditions, child labour laws, etc.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited March 2013
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Those countries you lose jobs to... they need some form of minimum wage as well.

    Not to mention safer working conditions, child labour laws, etc.

    Yeah, sweat shops are a prime example as to why we have minimum wage laws...and how American companies can work around the laws. With tax breaks, no less!
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i wouldn't buy weed legally if it were $200 a 1/4 bag. no. they could be selling 1/4 for $50 all day & all night long 365 days a year & make soooo much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ their heads would be spinning

    but nooooo let's give our jobs to overseas countries as well as we'll need our marijuana from mexico & canada & elsewhere screwing over our talented farmers in our own flippin back yard

    And why are we losing jobs to overseas markets? In part, because of the minimum wage laws in this country.

    Another argument for minimum wage.

    How can you expect wages set by employers to have positive results? Companies continually show they care very little for the common worker's welfare by exploiting the labourers in countries that allow for such exploitation.

    Come on, man. This argument is dumb: another frustrating thread on the MT that shows how far the mentality of the people still needs to come before society will ever begin to progress. Obviously not in my lifetime.


    Not that I'd want to lose my job but if I did, I'd rather see it stay this country. And if it did go overseas, that would be a direct argument against minimum wage. Why would my company go overseas in the first place? Cheaper labor.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:

    And why are we losing jobs to overseas markets? In part, because of the minimum wage laws in this country.

    Another argument for minimum wage.

    How can you expect wages set by employers to have positive results? Companies continually show they care very little for the common worker's welfare by exploiting the labourers in countries that allow for such exploitation.

    Come on, man. This argument is dumb: another frustrating thread on the MT that shows how far the mentality of the people still needs to come before society will ever begin to progress. Obviously not in my lifetime.


    Not that I'd want to lose my job but if I did, I'd rather see it stay this country. And if it did go overseas, that would be a direct argument against minimum wage. Why would my company go overseas in the first place? Cheaper labor.

    And you know what this great country does to ensure exploitation of cheap work overseas? Deliberately and slowly destroying our own economy. How do you like that. Imagine, according to you, if we could have sweat shops in our own country, things would make sense!
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    And why are we losing jobs to overseas markets? In part, because of the minimum wage laws in this country.

    Another argument for minimum wage.

    How can you expect wages set by employers to have positive results? Companies continually show they care very little for the common worker's welfare by exploiting the labourers in countries that allow for such exploitation.

    Come on, man. This argument is dumb: another frustrating thread on the MT that shows how far the mentality of the people still needs to come before society will ever begin to progress. Obviously not in my lifetime.


    Not that I'd want to lose my job but if I did, I'd rather see it stay this country. And if it did go overseas, that would be a direct argument against minimum wage. Why would my company go overseas in the first place? Cheaper labor.

    Duh. No shit. We get that concept: the one that shits all over the workers in such a way that they have to live in one room, mud huts, and the entire family must work so they can live.

    The upside, of course, is that company executives can greedily covet their cash, have luxurious holidays, and show disdain for their chambermaids and serving staff because they are lesser human than them. Corrupt and bankrupt morality at play here... no other way to put it. You are okay with it... but I am not.

    You promote the life lottery: the conditions where one is born unto should determine the lifestyle that person will live. You won, man! Way to go! Try living the alternative though... and then come on here talking about how $2 a day is reasonable to make cheaper Nike sneakers for the indifferent.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I hit the life lottery? no, Ive earned my middle class life thank you. Through working my ass off when i did work 3 minimum wage wage jobs when i was in college (paid for by me through student loans). Then entering the work force at entry level positions. I was laid off and collected unemployment for 2 weeks in 2004. Found another job and worked my way up the ladder by learning my craft and working OT every chance i could.

    Ive had nothing handed to me and Ive expected no hand outs from anyone. People today expect the government to bail them out of every problem they have. Minimum wage, Obamacare, entitlements are all expected from people today.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I hit the life lottery? no, Ive earned my middle class life thank you. Through working my ass off when i did work 3 minimum wage wage jobs when i was in college (paid for by me through student loans). Then entering the work force at entry level positions. I was laid off and collected unemployment for 2 weeks in 2004. Found another job and worked my way up the ladder by learning my craft and working OT every chance i could.

    Ive had nothing handed to me and Ive expected no hand outs from anyone. People today expect the government to bail them out of every problem they have. Minimum wage, Obamacare, entitlements are all expected from people today.

    You missed the point, but congratulations on earning your middle class lifestyle. Wasn't too hard now was it?

    Everyone that posts on this fan site has won the lottery of life. I'm not talking about people with first world problems. I was referring to those born in... oh... say, Calcutta and Bangladesh slums. While you complain about handouts and minimum wages... these people can only wish for those conditions that are likely never to come in my lifetime.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    But we're talking about minimum wage not in third-world countries - though I get they're somewhat related.

    Sounds like Last-12 worked hard to get to the point of making a decent living. I sure have. I bet many if not most have as well. There's no shame in paying your dues on the way up and I doubt any of us take the experience or current "assets", whatever they may be, for granted. That doesn't equate to thumbing our nose at the people of, say, India...or mean there aren't valid issues to be taken up here in the good old US of A.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Index the minimum wage and there wouldn't be all this drama everytime there is talk of an increase.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    hedonist wrote:
    But we're talking about minimum wage not in third-world countries - though I get they're somewhat related.

    Sounds like Last-12 worked hard to get to the point of making a decent living. I sure have. I bet many if not most have as well. There's no shame in paying your dues on the way up and I doubt any of us take the experience or current "assets", whatever they may be, for granted. That doesn't equate to thumbing our nose at the people of, say, India...or mean there aren't valid issues to be taken up here in the good old US of A.

    Third world countries have been used in this discussion to illustrate what the exploitation of labourers can look like.

    Of course there is no shame in 'paying your dues'. I paid mine in several 'minimum wage' jobs. I'm thankful there was a minimum wage though. I'm not sure I'd be where I am right now without government policies that protected my integrity in the work place. I don't have the confidence that some do where employers would all provide reasonable wages if not required to do so. In such a scenario... no university... no current lifestyle... just more shitty paying jobs without providing me the means to try and advance.

    The opportunity to achieve the quality of life that we all enjoy exists partly because of social programs and employment laws that are in place. He had argued that minimum wages should be whatever the employer wished to set and that government has no place in controlling that. I contend that such a scenario would be disastrous: we have numerous historical examples and numerous current examples that support what I suggest.

    It's ludicrous to think that the USA doesn't need minimum wage laws. The reason why people can afford their 10C fees and all the other perks people enjoy can be attributed to fair working conditions promoted by government policies. Left to the employer, such opportunities for people to rise above and prosper would be much fewer. This is common sense.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    i remember working back through the years and when i would say to myself, "today i'm making $100"
    that was killer to me. working holidays was thrilling. the overtime hours were a calculating good time. i think i climaxed in my pants more than once.

    $100 a day is pennies & millions of americans wished they made $100 a day at their difficult nasty ass jobs. one thing... please go to school. learn a skill. enjoy what you do. you will be happy.

    deep in my willpower bed of dreams i fully believe i will earm my ph.d before i die. "dr. chadwick told me to stfu. today i'm crying & begging for minimum wage. tomorrow i'll be a star, man! thanks dr. dumbass." -
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I hit the life lottery? no, Ive earned my middle class life thank you. Through working my ass off when i did work 3 minimum wage wage jobs when i was in college (paid for by me through student loans). Then entering the work force at entry level positions. I was laid off and collected unemployment for 2 weeks in 2004. Found another job and worked my way up the ladder by learning my craft and working OT every chance i could.

    Ive had nothing handed to me and Ive expected no hand outs from anyone. People today expect the government to bail them out of every problem they have. Minimum wage, Obamacare, entitlements are all expected from people today.

    Judging by the way you said you were on unemployment........seems you even got bailed out too. funny how you conviently pass over so many glaring holes that people point out in this thread.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I hit the life lottery? no, Ive earned my middle class life thank you. Through working my ass off when i did work 3 minimum wage wage jobs when i was in college (paid for by me through student loans). Then entering the work force at entry level positions. I was laid off and collected unemployment for 2 weeks in 2004. Found another job and worked my way up the ladder by learning my craft and working OT every chance i could.

    Ive had nothing handed to me and Ive expected no hand outs from anyone. People today expect the government to bail them out of every problem they have. Minimum wage, Obamacare, entitlements are all expected from people today.

    Judging by the way you said you were on unemployment........seems you even got bailed out too. funny how you conviently pass over so many glaring holes that people point out in this thread.
    Last-12-Exit earned that unemployment benefit, that is not a bailout.
    And 2 weeks really? thats nothing, some bailout.
    Last-12-Exit got busy and landed another job immediately.

    Funny how your reply is negative when obviously this person is smart, hard working
    and dedicated to personal goals from what is shared in their work history.
    They deserve what they have earned in life.

    That's truly the key here. It is motivation, work ethic, dedication that make an employee.
    When an employer finds a person like this they pay well to hold onto them.
    When the govt steps in asking for this much of a wage increase, what the hell :?
    they are making some employers choose who stays and who otherwise would not
    have to go.
    Or the employer can choose to keep them all and give them less hours.
    If and when those people are laid off or let go
    in the future this will effect how much unemployment they will collect to live on.

    This increase was no favor to anyone and a damn ploy again by this President to look
    like a good guy. It was a ridiculous increase never before seen in history
    that he knew would not get passed. I'm liking this President less and less, his motives,
    his ego is not something to be admired. Pretender... snaps fingers in a great big Z !
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Jeanwah wrote:

    And you know what this great country does to ensure exploitation of cheap work overseas? Deliberately and slowly destroying our own economy. How do you like that. Imagine, according to you, if we could have sweat shops in our own country, things would make sense!


    reductio ad absurdum
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    pandora wrote:
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    I hit the life lottery? no, Ive earned my middle class life thank you. Through working my ass off when i did work 3 minimum wage wage jobs when i was in college (paid for by me through student loans). Then entering the work force at entry level positions. I was laid off and collected unemployment for 2 weeks in 2004. Found another job and worked my way up the ladder by learning my craft and working OT every chance i could.

    Ive had nothing handed to me and Ive expected no hand outs from anyone. People today expect the government to bail them out of every problem they have. Minimum wage, Obamacare, entitlements are all expected from people today.

    Judging by the way you said you were on unemployment........seems you even got bailed out too. funny how you conviently pass over so many glaring holes that people point out in this thread.
    Last-12-Exit earned that unemployment benefit, that is not a bailout.
    And 2 weeks really? thats nothing, some bailout.
    Last-12-Exit got busy and landed another job immediately.

    Funny how your reply is negative when obviously this person is smart, hard working
    and dedicated to personal goals from what is shared in their work history.
    They deserve what they have earned in life.

    That's truly the key here. It is motivation, work ethic, dedication that make an employee.
    When an employer finds a person like this they pay well to hold onto them.
    When the govt steps in asking for this much of a wage increase, what the hell :?
    they are making some employers choose who stays and who otherwise would not
    have to go.
    Or the employer can choose to keep them all and give them less hours.
    If and when those people are laid off or let go
    in the future this will effect how much unemployment they will collect to live on.

    This increase was no favor to anyone and a damn ploy again by this President to look
    like a good guy. It was a ridiculous increase never before seen in history
    that he knew would not get passed. I'm liking this President less and less, his motives,
    his ego is not something to be admired. Pretender... snaps fingers in a great big Z !


    Work hard you say. So when welfare pays more then minimum wage I guess that is why it is easier to knock minimum wage then somebody sitting on their ass. Oh well!

    EDIT: So you are happy to pay taxes for somebody not to work, than to encourage the minimum wage to go up. Some of you people down south are very odd!

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    Work hard you say. So when welfare pays more then minimum wage I guess that is why it is easier to knock minimum wage then somebody sitting on their ass. Oh well!

    EDIT: So you are happy to pay taxes for somebody not to work, than to encourage the minimum wage to go up. Some of you people down south are very odd!
    Be honest you didn't read my post :lol: not knocking a reasonable minimum wage increase
    as we have seen throughout my working life ... knocking the ridiculous
    wage increase proposed by the current administration.

    I'm only visiting the South but I get the nasty cut ...
    what's your excuse :lol:
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