Jesus and Eddie: someone has to say it

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  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    I'm thinking anyone today in the presence of Jesus would be damned amazed, that applies
    to Eddie too :)
  • SpinTheWishlist
    SpinTheWishlist Posts: 43
    that depends on how much guilt and deceit you have to hide, just as it was in the day when they nailed him, no? or are you referring to the 'second coming'? cause that's not at all what i was referring to (not that i beleive in it the way the churches do...).
    the very welcome storm
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    SpinTheWishlist wrote:
    that depends on how much guilt and deceit you have to hide, just as it was in the day when they nailed him, no? or are you referring to the 'second coming'? cause that's not at all what i was referring to (not that i beleive in it the way the churches do...).
    Simply I was speaking of today as you mentioned. Or in the afterlife or in a dream ...
    the feeling would be just amazing meeting both men.
  • SpinTheWishlist
    SpinTheWishlist Posts: 43
    well yes maybe i expressed it ambiguously but i think you missed my point. nevertheless i do get yours.
    the very welcome storm
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    SpinTheWishlist wrote:
    well yes maybe i expressed it ambiguously but i think you missed my point. nevertheless i do get yours.
    Actually I think I got your point but myself and others might be an exception to your point ...
    be it 2000 years ago, today or tomorrow.
    I can only hope as I journey I will be blessed to meet both :)
  • SpinTheWishlist
    SpinTheWishlist Posts: 43
    i don't think much on the tomorrow part in respect to the ascended master but as far as the guy who overturned the temple tables, him i would have liked to meet. oh yeah. what a radical.

    and i think he was right when he said in the end we would meet in homes cause the churches will have gotten so corrupt. and not only corrupt but so good at stifling the voice of the common person.
    the very welcome storm
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    SpinTheWishlist wrote:
    i don't think much on the tomorrow part in respect to the ascended master but as far as the guy who overturned the temple tables, him i would have liked to meet. oh yeah. what a radical.

    and i think he was right when he said in the end we would meet in homes cause the churches will have gotten so corrupt. and not only corrupt but so good at stifling the voice of the common person.
    Oh me too!
    Being a believer in spirit not necessarily holy,
    I feel I will indeed meet those I long to meet someday.
    I know many out spoken, well spoken church people as common as you and I.
    I've always viewed them as being free spirits that are devoted to something beautiful
    in it's pure state. I have envied that dedication as I have yet to find it.
  • SpinTheWishlist
    SpinTheWishlist Posts: 43
    No, I have a huge problem with anything 'church'. To me if you're at all switched on you would renounce that establishment and not align yourself in any way, as that would give a double impression. None of this 'make a difference at church' but rather let them be what they are, cause in the end if you stay it's because to some degree you do go along with the hype. what is the point, what would anyone be trying to achieve by 'changing' the leadership or conditions. the very nature of the zeal will end up corrupting any well-meaning efforts by these so-called free minded people you speak of. spirituality should be a personal thing and when i said before that people will end up meeting in homes, i was simply highlighting a biblical quote to show that jesus was even against churches and that it's not required to go to temple or church to relate to god or whatever you call it. i don't personally care to 'meet' with anyone myself, i can't profess to know what lies in the after-life. how can i say so and so will be there.. where? i know it says in the biblical txts that this will be that way etc but those writings have been altered so much that no-one can put any reliance on them with any real credibility at all. my spirituality is my own and i commune with whatever it is that inspires me. how can i put into words that which is of an ethereal element anyhow. to do so would diminish the experience and it would end up worthless. not meaning to hate on yo at all, just my truth.
    the very welcome storm
  • pj1981
    pj1981 Posts: 288
    Not feeling a bit of hate from you towards me. Thank you for sharing your opinion
    and your knowledge on the subject. I don't belong to a religion or church.
    I just see churches as something good for people who need it.
    I also see the organization that is church answering needs in their own communities and
    reaching other's needs as well. Much good is done. Church often makes people stop and think.
    Helps them to be compassionate and loving. Helps to guide to make good choices.
    Gives strength.
    Yes we can have church alone and for you and me that is enough.
    But because either of us would choose to belong does not change how good we are.
    Just changes who we are good with, as I see it.
    Corruption can strike anywhere but in my heart I believe it is not the rule
    for the common folk who are the people filling the churches. I think to them it is not hype
    why they are there sharing, church is an important part of their life. They love it....
    maybe like we love Pearl Jam.
  • donnaruhl
    donnaruhl Posts: 2,157
    pj1981 wrote:
    Not feeling a bit of hate from you towards me. Thank you for sharing your opinion
    and your knowledge on the subject. I don't belong to a religion or church.
    I just see churches as something good for people who need it.
    I also see the organization that is church answering needs in their own communities and
    reaching other's needs as well. Much good is done. Church often makes people stop and think.
    Helps them to be compassionate and loving. Helps to guide to make good choices.
    Gives strength.
    Yes we can have church alone and for you and me that is enough.
    But because either of us would choose to belong does not change how good we are.
    Just changes who we are good with, as I see it.
    Corruption can strike anywhere but in my heart I believe it is not the rule
    for the common folk who are the people filling the churches. I think to them it is not hype
    why they are there sharing, church is an important part of their life. They love it....
    maybe like we love Pearl Jam.
    I also believe in alot of what you say.I also firmly believe that it doesn't matter where you worship,but how you...
  • SpinTheWishlist
    SpinTheWishlist Posts: 43
    I just don't think we should affiliate ourselves with anything that has a history of dishonesty and manipulation if we are trying to point people to god. If there ever was a 'Jesus' as depicted in the scriptures, then the church has done well in ruining his reputation. It's a matter of principle. If you want a club to attend to and exchange social graces and good works then call it that, don't call it church where god is meant to be sought [not just given lip-service] and yeshua followed.
    the very welcome storm
  • Kimmiebyrom
    Kimmiebyrom Posts: 1,832
    Wow. So many words, so many hearts here that speak them.

    This is an interesting thread. I never thought that Ed's spirituality was ambiguous. He's on a journey like the rest of us. Whether that is toward or away from God I do not know, and I don't really have to know. He's a human being, and that brings with it a certain amount of joy and pain, trial and victory. It's nice to have companionship through all of that in a world that quite frankly craps on everyone. Perhaps that companionship is in the form of a savior, or in the community of a church, or in the camaraderie of a shared musical experience, or in beer (and I've plenty of those stories too!). It is different for everyone. Life's tapestry is much more fulfilling when shared with others. Others that in some way connect with one another. If I don't know anything else, I know that.

    I'm a believer myself. And I don't say that with one shred of pomposity. I've walked the path of Christianity, of Paganism, of Thelema, of Buddhism, of Agnosticism and all of that has led me where I am today - still growing and still learning, still screwing up and still loving life. Personally, I cannot look at my husband, or my 4 beautiful children without being completely awestruck of what God has created. I cannot hike a mountain, traipse through a forest, or dance in the rain without wonder or see human kindness at work without admiration. All of that comes from love, and that is the essence of God.

    I'm ok with not knowing exactly how it all came to be or how it will all end. I am comforted in knowing that there is something much bigger than I. Which often brings a hell of a lot more responsibility than not. If there is an absolute in life, here on Earth, then it's LOVE.
    2003 Dallas
    2013 Wrigley
    2013 Dallas
    2013 Oklahoma City
    2013 Seattle

    How I choose to feel is how I am.
    There's just one word I still believe...and it's LOVE.
    "Take care of one another..." -EV
  • Miiike
    Miiike Posts: 436
    Kimmiebyrom wrote:
    If there is an absolute in life, here on Earth, then it's LOVE.

    I agree!!!! Absolutely . . .

    I haven't read all the responses here, but essentially I think religion can be seen as a framework, a set of man-made rules with which people engage with the wonder of existence. And I think for some people that strict framework is exactly what they need. Exactly. It makes them feel safe and it gives them guidelines and rituals through which to express their spirituality. And they can be incredibly beautiful, these rituals and rules. When they're not oppressing or hurting people, or perpetuating hatred and fear, or claiming to be the 'only way' then they are beautiful. And let's face it, some of the messages are amazing . . . Christ: love your enemy. I mean wow, that's a pretty special idea. Pretty bloody groundbreaking!

    But while I don't think EV adheres to a particular framework to be spiritual, I think he's definitely a spiritual person. I remember hearing him say on some concert footage, while quoting Oscar Wilde was it? 'I don't believe in 'God', I believe in something much bigger than that'. So I think he believes in something! Absolutely! The fact that he doesn't want to express his beliefs through a man-made construct doesn't mean he's not spiritual. No one should expect others to engage with existence and spirituality according to the set of rules or the books that work for them.

    I personally don't like the word 'God' to describe the consciousness of the Universe (if there is one). Only because the 'God' of the old testament didn't appeal to me as a child. It didn't ring true. So I don't particularly like that name. But I don't begrudge anyone else who wants to use that word . . .

    I was talking to my grown-up nephew about this the other day, who at 21 was telling me there is nothing, but science. Nothing else. No afterlife, nor anything but what we can see and hear etc etc. Which I'm not sure even most scientists believe these days, as they unravel just how incredible the building blocks of our reality are . . . but anyway, so I told him that I believe 100% in evolution, and in the perfect laws of physics which created our reality, I believe 100% in the big bang and in science, but just because I believe in all those things, in the physical laws on which our reality is built, that doesn't in any way tell me why the big bang happened! Or why the fuck those laws of physics exist in the first place!!!!! And it made him stop and think, which I thought was nice. :)

    Personally I think the actual fact of existence is A COMPLETE MIRACLE. I mean this reality, where 1 + 1 = 2, and we have gravity, this isn't chaos is it. It works. The laws of physics and mathematics work extremely well. I think the very fact of a reality that is built around these incredibly complicated but beautiful logical laws, in which conscious being such as ourselves can exist, is such a goddam miracle, that anything is possible! ANYTHING. And I think our human minds probably aren't built to be able to understand it completely . . . or we can, but it takes hard work and an EXTREMELY open and flexible mind to get our heads around it.

    Sometimes I take issue with Atheism because I see it as another strict set of rules with no flexibility, i.e. 'nothing happens when you die, there is no god etc' because it's like 'you're not dead mate, seriously, how the fuck do you know?' . . . But then at the same time I respect that opinion, I have to don't I? For people to respect mine?

    I think when it comes to spirituality, we all have to respect eachother's frameworks and forms of expression, but we should never propose that someone is wrong because they don't adhere to the same set of rules that we do. Spirituality is much deeper and greater and more intangible than that.
  • BinFrog
    BinFrog MA Posts: 7,314
    yoeoRIr.jpg
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • Miiike
    Miiike Posts: 436
    BinFrog wrote:
    yoeoRIr.jpg

    So. Ummm. My post was so bloody inspiring that it inspired BinFrog to go and make a Yoda meme about how this fucking thread won't die!!!! Hahaha, awesome!! Thanks BinFrog ;):lol:

    Okay, but before I let this thread die a natural death, just let me share a moment where I was struck by the beauty of a religious ritual. I was travelling around Turkey years ago with my best friend, and we were on this yacht trip with some other randoms . . . So one day we stopped in this coastal town for lunch and the call to prayer started up. Well the first thing I noticed was that this particular prayer singer had a GORGEOUS tenor voice, really bloody beautiful, then a few moments later another call to prayer starts up on the other side of the town, and this other guy has an equally amazing voice.

    So they're each singing a separate call to prayer from their mosque's miranet, miles from eachother (a common occurance, you'll hear it 5 times a day in Turkey) but with these two singers it's like they're singing in perfect harmony. They're improvising a beautiful duet, an incredible musical dance, between themselves, from opposite sides of the city, over the top of the city. And it was so musical, and I could hear so much joy in it, that it was a moment of true beauty for me. It was fucking magical. And the thing is, they would do the same thing every single day. They would improvise this stunning duet of worship for the whole town 5 times a day.

    So yeah, I thought that was pretty fucking cool . . .

    Okay, now the thread can die! But only because Yoda is THE SHIZ :):D
  • STAYSEA
    STAYSEA Posts: 3,814
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    I believe in miracles...
    image
  • oceaninmyeyes
    oceaninmyeyes Posts: 4,646
    Elmo wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:
    yoeoRIr.jpg

    So. Ummm. My post was so bloody inspiring that it inspired BinFrog to go and make a Yoda meme about how this fucking thread won't die!!!! Hahaha, awesome!! Thanks BinFrog ;):lol:

    Okay, but before I let this thread die a natural death, just let me share a moment where I was struck by the beauty of a religious ritual. I was travelling around Turkey years ago with my best friend, and we were on this yacht trip with some other randoms . . . So one day we stopped in this coastal town for lunch and the call to prayer started up. Well the first thing I noticed was that this particular prayer singer had a GORGEOUS tenor voice, really bloody beautiful, then a few moments later another call to prayer starts up on the other side of the town, and this other guy has an equally amazing voice.

    So they're each singing a separate call to prayer from their mosque's miranet, miles from eachother (a common occurance, you'll hear it 5 times a day in Turkey) but with these two singers it's like they're singing in perfect harmony. They're improvising a beautiful duet, an incredible musical dance, between themselves, from opposite sides of the city, over the top of the city. And it was so musical, and I could hear so much joy in it, that it was a moment of true beauty for me. It was fucking magical. And the thing is, they would do the same thing every single day. They would improvise this stunning duet of worship for the whole town 5 times a day.

    So yeah, I thought that was pretty fucking cool . . .

    Okay, now the thread can die! But only because Yoda is THE SHIZ :):D

    Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am. ;):lol:
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
  • Miiike
    Miiike Posts: 436
    oceaninmyeyes wrote:
    Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am. ;):lol:

    I agree! The life after death stuff is so bloody fascinating! It's FULL ON! There was this article in The Age (Melbourne's best, or most reputable paper) about two years ago, about how out of body experiences of people are being tested in various hospitals around the world. So they're doing stuff like writing things on the floor that can ONLY be seen from a birds eye view before a surgery.....and yeah, these patients who have been under anaesthetic are able to tell the surgery staff what was written because apparently they could see the whole surgery from their vantage point ABOVE the operating table . . . They left their body and could see it all. I mean holy hell. This shit is incredible!

    I love all this stuff Ocean, could talk about it for hours. One day we will!! Waiting in line together for a pj concert! That would be ace!! :):D
  • Miiike
    Miiike Posts: 436
    STAYSEA wrote:
    jackwhite190612w.jpg
    I believe in miracles...

    Haha....so do i Staysea! So do I. I believe in two, small, infinitely talented miracles. Oh whoops, i believe in three miracles. I forgot about my husband ;)
  • oceaninmyeyes
    oceaninmyeyes Posts: 4,646
    Elmo wrote:
    oceaninmyeyes wrote:
    Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am. ;):lol:

    I agree! The life after death stuff is so bloody fascinating! It's FULL ON! There was this article in The Age (Melbourne's best, or most reputable paper) about two years ago, about how out of body experiences of people are being tested in various hospitals around the world. So they're doing stuff like writing things on the floor that can ONLY be seen from a birds eye view before a surgery.....and yeah, these patients who have been under anaesthetic are able to tell the surgery staff what was written because apparently they could see the whole surgery from their vantage point ABOVE the operating table . . . They left their body and could see it all. I mean holy hell. This shit is incredible!

    I love all this stuff Ocean, could talk about it for hours. One day we will!! Waiting in line together for a pj concert! That would be ace!! :):D
    :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap::clap: :wave: :wave:
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes

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