It is more than likely the guy will as he in this case seems selfish as this is harm done to him. Where as the same guy would avoid paying for kids he helped create!
Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
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New York - May 02 - 2016
Not that anyone here gives a flying fuck, but best I can make out from various esoteric schools, their opinion is that the soul ... That discreet individualized expression of experiencing energy that is "separated" from the oversoul/the one soul in the physical world ... Does not "take hold" of its "vehicle" (the physical body) for some many years after birth ... Around 33 to 36 years per one author, but certainly after adolescence and the early twenties at least. It may be struggling for control of, and the bodies (physical, emotional, and mental) may be flirting with or receiving brief glimpses/contacts with it before then, but it has not had a chance to take over control yet. I think they would probably (if I ever encountered texts directly pertaining to fetuses, which I haven't) say that the fetus is the physical body alone. Possibly flirting with its emotional body, but certainly not containing an "indwelling soul" proper.
That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
Food for thought or garbage for discarding.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Not that anyone here gives a flying fuck, but best I can make out from various esoteric schools, their opinion is that the soul ... That discreet individualized expression of experiencing energy that is "separated" from the oversoul/the one soul in the physical world ... Does not "take hold" of its "vehicle" (the physical body) for some many years after birth ... Around 33 to 36 years per one author, but certainly after adolescence and the early twenties at least. It may be struggling for control of, and the bodies (physical, emotional, and mental) may be flirting with or receiving brief glimpses/contacts with it before then, but it has not had a chance to take over control yet. I think they would probably (if I ever encountered texts directly pertaining to fetuses, which I haven't) say that the fetus is the physical body alone. Possibly flirting with its emotional body, but certainly not containing an "indwelling soul" proper.
That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
Food for thought or garbage for discarding.
I do give a fuck, though I'm not sure it flies.
(floats, though, for sure)
As to the soul...well, it's all opinion, since no one knows with any certainty.
As to the age...well, again, opinion. I'm not gonna discount the energy/soul/spirit of something simply because it's young.
Life is all around and I find it arrogant (in a general sense) that WE decide when it begins. Maybe it's done to ameliorate, to appease the choices made. Dunno.
Not that anyone here gives a flying fuck, but best I can make out from various esoteric schools, their opinion is that the soul ... That discreet individualized expression of experiencing energy that is "separated" from the oversoul/the one soul in the physical world ... Does not "take hold" of its "vehicle" (the physical body) for some many years after birth ... Around 33 to 36 years per one author, but certainly after adolescence and the early twenties at least. It may be struggling for control of, and the bodies (physical, emotional, and mental) may be flirting with or receiving brief glimpses/contacts with it before then, but it has not had a chance to take over control yet. I think they would probably (if I ever encountered texts directly pertaining to fetuses, which I haven't) say that the fetus is the physical body alone. Possibly flirting with its emotional body, but certainly not containing an "indwelling soul" proper.
That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
Food for thought or garbage for discarding.
Very interesting! I had an old relative who used to always say something to the degree of: look how similar our bodies are.. but our minds and personalities are all over the map. How can that be contained by a body? The soul is battling the physical..
Jeanwah wrote;
To me, we're souls borrowing a human body than the other way around. The spirit lives before the birth of a human, and they continue on after the body dies. Spirit continues...
Drifting wrote; That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
These are both interesting thoughts to me. Until this forum, I guess I never really thought much about soul on the awareness or ownership levels. I'd always percieved soul as the label used to describe human emotions &/or the depth of them. Guess I assumed everyone is born with this; hormones etc..generate emotions = soul. This 'thing' that doesn't much resonate until we mature some to gain a knowing of self — a consious state of our being.
But here, Jeanwah & Drifting have presented a sort of energy-soul type angel concept. One where a soul (angel?) with the help of others, chooses a suit to wear. That the soul comes first, then the body & mind rather than what I'd always considered to be an inseperable package of 3 parts all conjoined at once like a big bang & poof! Life begins. At conception? At birth? At a concious level?
I don't know but I'd like the abortion raging to move from conception versus fetus stage & onto this more engaging consideration the two of you presented. Thanks!
Regarding wether fetuses have souls:
Personally, I don't think it matters. But here's some historical perspective:
Despite shifting opinion about abortion and organized medicine's reluctance to engage with the issue, early monotheistic traditions did not hold the strong, unified posi-tion against abortion that is now associated with the contem-porary Roman Catholic church. While early Islamic teach-ings prohibited abortion after the soul enters the fetus, re-ligious scholars disagreed about when this event occurred, with estimates ranging from 40 to 120 days after conception [7]. Early Christian thought was divided as to whether abor-tion of an early “unformed fetus” actually constituted mur-der [5]. The Catholic church tacitly permitted earlier abor-tions, and it did not take a highly active role in antiabortion campaigns until the 19th century.
(I'll provide the citation for that book & the citation it cites, if you'd like, but it's hard for me to do that from my iPad.)
Regarding the percent of abortions that are attributed to drug addicts:
They don't collect data on that.
Regarding women using abortion as birth control:
If a sexually active woman were to use abortion as her means of birth control & wanted two children, she would have about 30 abortions by the time she reached age 45. (www.guttmacher.org)
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,732
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
Yeah, it didn't work for me. Something as serious as an abortion isn't something that I would make public. There a great story Wendell Berry wrote about a family who wants to bury a deceased uncle on the family property but they live in an area where this is not legal. They go about the business of burying the uncle very quietly and respectfully rather than making a public issue about it. So for me, the comedian making a public spectacle about a personal act like this just didn't seem appropriate.
George Carlin once said there are no subjects that cannot be used in comedy but not every comedian is a George Carlin.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
It's in context with the rest of his act. He's personally my favorite living comedian.
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
It's in context with the rest of his act. He's personally my favorite living comedian.
I greatly admire your humor too .. you always make me laugh
I need heart in a comedian so I can relate. He and I are too far apart I think maybe.
He seems harsh but I will investigate more. Fair play.
I agree with Brian, abortion, I don't think is a good topic for humor, cuts too deep for some.
The part about the fetus in the afterlife greeting ... did I get that right? ...
not good for some of us who believe we have indeed taken a life.
It's in context with the rest of his act. He's personally my favorite living comedian.
I greatly admire your humor too .. you always make me laugh
I need heart in a comedian so I can relate. He and I are too far apart I think maybe.
He seems harsh but I will investigate more. Fair play.
I agree with Brian, abortion, I don't think is a good topic for humor, cuts too deep for some.
The part about the fetus in the afterlife greeting ... did I get that right? ...
not good for some of us who believe we have indeed taken a life.[/quote]
He's definitely not for everybody, he even starts one of his other specials with how people will leave, their not all going to be there at the end.
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
Yeah, I probably should've put a bit of a disclaimer on that one. Stanhope does not have children, but his story about the abortion is true. He regularly veers into areas that no doubt make large chunks of the audience uncomfortable. I love him because they're honest feelings and brilliantly crafted, not just roughly plopped out for shock value.
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
It's in context with the rest of his act. He's personally my favorite living comedian.
I like a good comedian but ...
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
Yeah, I probably should've put a bit of a disclaimer on that one. Stanhope does not have children, but his story about the abortion is true. He regularly veers into areas that no doubt make large chunks of the audience uncomfortable. I love him because they're honest feelings and brilliantly crafted, not just roughly plopped out for shock value.
I do know that fetuses have a heart beat at 6 WEEKS. Just a tiny little thing with a beating heart. So incredible.
So an abortion at 4 weeks ends the pregnancy before the heart is formed and functioning.. That, I believe is another argument that pro choice folks use.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,801
this seems appropriate to post here too.
In Genesis 2 God forms "Adam" (this time meaning a single male human) out of "the dust of the ground" and then "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", causing him to "become a living soul" (Genesis 2:7). God then placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, giving him the commandment that "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:16-17).
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
In Genesis 2 God forms "Adam" (this time meaning a single male human) out of "the dust of the ground" and then "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", causing him to "become a living soul" (Genesis 2:7). God then placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, giving him the commandment that "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:16-17).
Now all I can picture is god kneeling beside some naked guy with his mouth plastered over his nose and blowing... hope God doesn't have bad breath.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ( Gen. 2: 7 )
“Man” in Hebrew is Adam. Esoterically, the first letter, a, denotes anything primal, the first cause, potential power, Deity. The letter d is the sign of multiplication and abundance, and the final m is one of unlimited plurality. “Man” is “the spiritual One becoming the material Many, the human principle, the essence of humanity.” Dust may be regarded as “the refinement of matter, light, airy.” “Breath” in Hebrew can be translated as nishemath, “to elevate, to ennoble, being raised to a higher state, becoming an individual human soul.”
Verse seven in its literal reading is deceptive, for it somewhat suggests the theory of special creation, which runs counter to that of the cyclic emanation, involution and evolution of all beings and all things, both material and spiritual. Esoterically, however, the order of evolution is not incorrect. The first chapter of Genesis gives the history of the first three Rounds of the present Fourth Chain of Globes, and of the first three Races (types of evolving beings) on Earth in the Fourth Round (see Volume I for an explanation of the meaning of Rounds and Globes), when humanity had already attained conscious life. In the first chapter of Genesis—which deals with the earlier Rounds—animals, fishes and birds are correctly placed before humans, while in the second chapter, which continues the story, humanity is correctly introduced first.
Since evolution is a fact, this verse, in both its exoteric and esoteric readings, may be taken to describe the passage of the human Monad through the mineral (dust), the plant and the animal kingdoms (life), to the attainment of self-conscious individuality or Soulship (humanity). The word “dust” as shown above is somewhat misleading, since the original aphar (Heb.) is the present participle of a verb meaning “the process of refining.” The threefold nature of humanity—material, psychical and spiritual—is thus described, and especially the fact of humanity’s distinguishing characteristic of self-conscious individuality. The breath of life breathed into Adam, the “man of dust,” is the nascent, reasoning Soul which in the animal is instinctual only.
probably lost you even more with the "rounds and globes", as you would have to then dig in to esoteric cosmology to even have a chance at understanding wtf they are talking about, but just to be fair, thought i'd include this here.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,801
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ( Gen. 2: 7 )
“Man” in Hebrew is Adam. Esoterically, the first letter, a, denotes anything primal, the first cause, potential power, Deity. The letter d is the sign of multiplication and abundance, and the final m is one of unlimited plurality. “Man” is “the spiritual One becoming the material Many, the human principle, the essence of humanity.” Dust may be regarded as “the refinement of matter, light, airy.” “Breath” in Hebrew can be translated as nishemath, “to elevate, to ennoble, being raised to a higher state, becoming an individual human soul.”
Verse seven in its literal reading is deceptive, for it somewhat suggests the theory of special creation, which runs counter to that of the cyclic emanation, involution and evolution of all beings and all things, both material and spiritual. Esoterically, however, the order of evolution is not incorrect. The first chapter of Genesis gives the history of the first three Rounds of the present Fourth Chain of Globes, and of the first three Races (types of evolving beings) on Earth in the Fourth Round (see Volume I for an explanation of the meaning of Rounds and Globes), when humanity had already attained conscious life. In the first chapter of Genesis—which deals with the earlier Rounds—animals, fishes and birds are correctly placed before humans, while in the second chapter, which continues the story, humanity is correctly introduced first.
Since evolution is a fact, this verse, in both its exoteric and esoteric readings, may be taken to describe the passage of the human Monad through the mineral (dust), the plant and the animal kingdoms (life), to the attainment of self-conscious individuality or Soulship (humanity). The word “dust” as shown above is somewhat misleading, since the original aphar (Heb.) is the present participle of a verb meaning “the process of refining.” The threefold nature of humanity—material, psychical and spiritual—is thus described, and especially the fact of humanity’s distinguishing characteristic of self-conscious individuality. The breath of life breathed into Adam, the “man of dust,” is the nascent, reasoning Soul which in the animal is instinctual only.
probably lost you even more with the "rounds and globes", as you would have to then dig in to esoteric cosmology to even have a chance at understanding wtf they are talking about, but just to be fair, thought i'd include this here.
sorry dude, I missed the part where I had a chance to understand wtf they were talking about. :P
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
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That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
Food for thought or garbage for discarding.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
(floats, though, for sure)
As to the soul...well, it's all opinion, since no one knows with any certainty.
As to the age...well, again, opinion. I'm not gonna discount the energy/soul/spirit of something simply because it's young.
Life is all around and I find it arrogant (in a general sense) that WE decide when it begins. Maybe it's done to ameliorate, to appease the choices made. Dunno.
Very interesting! I had an old relative who used to always say something to the degree of: look how similar our bodies are.. but our minds and personalities are all over the map. How can that be contained by a body? The soul is battling the physical..
To me, we're souls borrowing a human body than the other way around. The spirit lives before the birth of a human, and they continue on after the body dies. Spirit continues...
Drifting wrote; That isn't to diminish the sanctity or sacredness of the fetus though. It would still be considered the necessary and wanted vehicle for the expression of the awaiting soul ... A vehicle that required the great concentrated effort of a very many souls working in unison/group to bring about and which the destruction of would probably leave the awaiting soul in some sort of confused/suspended state.
These are both interesting thoughts to me. Until this forum, I guess I never really thought much about soul on the awareness or ownership levels. I'd always percieved soul as the label used to describe human emotions &/or the depth of them. Guess I assumed everyone is born with this; hormones etc..generate emotions = soul. This 'thing' that doesn't much resonate until we mature some to gain a knowing of self — a consious state of our being.
But here, Jeanwah & Drifting have presented a sort of energy-soul type angel concept. One where a soul (angel?) with the help of others, chooses a suit to wear. That the soul comes first, then the body & mind rather than what I'd always considered to be an inseperable package of 3 parts all conjoined at once like a big bang & poof! Life begins. At conception? At birth? At a concious level?
I don't know but I'd like the abortion raging to move from conception versus fetus stage & onto this more engaging consideration the two of you presented. Thanks!
Personally, I don't think it matters. But here's some historical perspective: (I'll provide the citation for that book & the citation it cites, if you'd like, but it's hard for me to do that from my iPad.)
Regarding the percent of abortions that are attributed to drug addicts:
They don't collect data on that.
Regarding women using abortion as birth control:
If a sexually active woman were to use abortion as her means of birth control & wanted two children, she would have about 30 abortions by the time she reached age 45. (www.guttmacher.org)
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqECZu3VXUo
I noticed some of the ladies in the audience not laughing at that. Me too, not even a smile.
My bet he does not have children, yes? Never had an abortion either
so perhaps he does not understand.
Yeah, it didn't work for me. Something as serious as an abortion isn't something that I would make public. There a great story Wendell Berry wrote about a family who wants to bury a deceased uncle on the family property but they live in an area where this is not legal. They go about the business of burying the uncle very quietly and respectfully rather than making a public issue about it. So for me, the comedian making a public spectacle about a personal act like this just didn't seem appropriate.
George Carlin once said there are no subjects that cannot be used in comedy but not every comedian is a George Carlin.
It's in context with the rest of his act. He's personally my favorite living comedian.
I need heart in a comedian so I can relate. He and I are too far apart I think maybe.
He seems harsh but I will investigate more. Fair play.
I agree with Brian, abortion, I don't think is a good topic for humor, cuts too deep for some.
The part about the fetus in the afterlife greeting ... did I get that right? ...
not good for some of us who believe we have indeed taken a life.
I need heart in a comedian so I can relate. He and I are too far apart I think maybe.
He seems harsh but I will investigate more. Fair play.
I agree with Brian, abortion, I don't think is a good topic for humor, cuts too deep for some.
The part about the fetus in the afterlife greeting ... did I get that right? ...
not good for some of us who believe we have indeed taken a life.[/quote]
He's definitely not for everybody, he even starts one of his other specials with how people will leave, their not all going to be there at the end.
Yeah, I probably should've put a bit of a disclaimer on that one. Stanhope does not have children, but his story about the abortion is true. He regularly veers into areas that no doubt make large chunks of the audience uncomfortable. I love him because they're honest feelings and brilliantly crafted, not just roughly plopped out for shock value.
Agree on both counts.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
might i suggest you keep your wang locked away lest it deliver on one of its two purposes and you be held responsible for the outcome.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So an abortion at 4 weeks ends the pregnancy before the heart is formed and functioning.. That, I believe is another argument that pro choice folks use.
In Genesis 2 God forms "Adam" (this time meaning a single male human) out of "the dust of the ground" and then "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", causing him to "become a living soul" (Genesis 2:7). God then placed Adam in the Garden of Eden, giving him the commandment that "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:16-17).
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Many things in this book. Some make sense to me, most dont.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'll let you be the judge of that
and just to play devil's advocate here...
from Hidden Wisdom in the Holy Bible Vol II - Geoffrey Hodson
-source
probably lost you even more with the "rounds and globes", as you would have to then dig in to esoteric cosmology to even have a chance at understanding wtf they are talking about, but just to be fair, thought i'd include this here.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
interesting to say the least.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14