But for the women who use abortion as a form of birth control — they have no soul.
There are no women who use abortion as birth control.
:fp:
actually, I know one. I slept with her. I later found out why she didn't care to use protection. She would just go get an abortion if she got pregnant. So yes, she used abortion as birth control. However, I don't believe this is common.
Why didn't you use protection? Not to be so abrasive, but you know that it takes two to tango...
Worried about a fetus having a soul, but very quick to tell me that my pet dog, cat, fish, the cow in the barnyard, the horse I ride, the seal I club, the polar bear in the artic, etc....don't have souls. Odd, very, very, odd.
lolz....
glad so see some activity out of you, my friend...
WHERE'S THE VW BITCH?????? I mean Champ!
A bit of spare time on my hands now and then.
she's safe and sound in the driveway...don't you worry...I'll take you for a ride when you come and visit...
Worried about a fetus having a soul, but very quick to tell me that my pet dog, cat, fish, the cow in the barnyard, the horse I ride, the seal I club, the polar bear in the artic, etc....don't have souls. Odd, very, very, odd.
Not sure to whom that was directed, but if souls do exist (and I liken the word "soul" to spirit, or energy, or intelligence), they're not exclusive to human beings.
Ever looked into the eyes of a gorilla? Hell, even our cats.
(and hell yes too, even the seal you club. I'll assume that was intended with humor/sarcasm)
It's funny too, how most - myself included - took the initial post to be about aborted life. Not sure if that was the intent, but seems how it's been generally taken. So I ask again, does one mourn in the same way the loss of life via an abortion as they would a miscarriage? Consider the former as not having a soul or spirit, and the latter as having it? And if so, why?
I still think the gum-on-shoe analogy is dismissive of how those fetuses died, whether the death was intentional or not.
(to the bolded part) It's likely to be a very personal experience and not one that can be generalized. I've known women to very much mourn... and I'm sure others who don't. Me, I've had a miscarriage - a LOT of women have them. And yes I did mourn.
To me, we're souls borrowing a human body than the other way around. The spirit lives before the birth of a human, and they continue on after the body dies. Spirit continues...
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Not sure to whom that was directed, but if souls do exist (and I liken the word "soul" to spirit, or energy, or intelligence), they're not exclusive to human beings.
Ever looked into the eyes of a gorilla? Hell, even our cats.
(and hell yes too, even the seal you club. I'll assume that was intended with humor/sarcasm)
It's funny too, how most - myself included - took the initial post to be about aborted life. Not sure if that was the intent, but seems how it's been generally taken. So I ask again, does one mourn in the same way the loss of life via an abortion as they would a miscarriage? Consider the former as not having a soul or spirit, and the latter as having it? And if so, why?
I still think the gum-on-shoe analogy is dismissive of how those fetuses died, whether the death was intentional or not.
(to the bolded part) It's likely to be a very personal experience and not one that can be generalized. I've known women to very much mourn... and I'm sure others who don't. Me, I've had a miscarriage - a LOT of women have them. And yes I did mourn.
I can respect this (and I'm sorry for your loss). I hope my question didn't come off as flippant or insinuating that all grieve (or not) as they need. It was more tied into the initial post, which struck me as a bit light for a rather heavy subject.
if you think fetuses have souls, imagine would heaven would be like. you'd be tip toe-ing around, trying not to step on them. if you did, it would be like bubble gum stuck to your shoes.
I think what bothers me the most about this thread is the implication that if I die a crotchety and hardly able 95-year old man, and go to heaven, that I'm going to be a crotchety and hardly able 95-year old man in heaven. Forever. What kind of paradise is that?
Not sure to whom that was directed, but if souls do exist (and I liken the word "soul" to spirit, or energy, or intelligence), they're not exclusive to human beings.
Ever looked into the eyes of a gorilla? Hell, even our cats.
(and hell yes too, even the seal you club. I'll assume that was intended with humor/sarcasm)
It's funny too, how most - myself included - took the initial post to be about aborted life. Not sure if that was the intent, but seems how it's been generally taken. So I ask again, does one mourn in the same way the loss of life via an abortion as they would a miscarriage? Consider the former as not having a soul or spirit, and the latter as having it? And if so, why?
I still think the gum-on-shoe analogy is dismissive of how those fetuses died, whether the death was intentional or not.
(to the bolded part) It's likely to be a very personal experience and not one that can be generalized. I've known women to very much mourn... and I'm sure others who don't. Me, I've had a miscarriage - a LOT of women have them. And yes I did mourn.
I can respect this (and I'm sorry for your loss). I hope my question didn't come off as flippant or insinuating that all grieve (or not) as they need. It was more tied into the initial post, which struck me as a bit light for a rather heavy subject.
actually, I know one. I slept with her. I later found out why she didn't care to use protection. She would just go get an abortion if she got pregnant. So yes, she used abortion as birth control. However, I don't believe this is common.
Um... Ok not to point out the screamingly obvious... but saying that "SHE" didn't care to use protection is false.
Birth control isn't just the woman's responsibility. You also didn't use protection. So you should have said "WE." Unless she tied you up and had sex with you against your will, that was also partly your job and you chose not to do it.
So don't be blaming her... technically even if she DID use abortion for birth control... she still used more than you did.
Right?
Or wait... if your form of birth control "lose the slut's phone number once I had my fun?"
Why didn't you use protection? Not to be so abrasive, but you know that it takes two to tango...
I was young and stupid (many many years ago). I'm not blaming her for anything, all I was saying was this was the reason that I found out later why she didn't care about using it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not sure to whom that was directed, but if souls do exist (and I liken the word "soul" to spirit, or energy, or intelligence), they're not exclusive to human beings.
Ever looked into the eyes of a gorilla? Hell, even our cats.
(and hell yes too, even the seal you club. I'll assume that was intended with humor/sarcasm)
It's funny too, how most - myself included - took the initial post to be about aborted life. Not sure if that was the intent, but seems how it's been generally taken. So I ask again, does one mourn in the same way the loss of life via an abortion as they would a miscarriage? Consider the former as not having a soul or spirit, and the latter as having it? And if so, why?
I still think the gum-on-shoe analogy is dismissive of how those fetuses died, whether the death was intentional or not.
I thought it was generally accepted amongst religious folks that only humans have souls and go to heaven?
But one can believe in the soul (catchall word) and not in heaven; they're not mutually-exclusive.
(that said, I'm not sure I've heard the only-humans-in-heaven theory)
could be just my brother and his religion.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not sure to whom that was directed, but if souls do exist (and I liken the word "soul" to spirit, or energy, or intelligence), they're not exclusive to human beings.
Ever looked into the eyes of a gorilla? Hell, even our cats.
(and hell yes too, even the seal you club. I'll assume that was intended with humor/sarcasm)
It's funny too, how most - myself included - took the initial post to be about aborted life. Not sure if that was the intent, but seems how it's been generally taken. So I ask again, does one mourn in the same way the loss of life via an abortion as they would a miscarriage? Consider the former as not having a soul or spirit, and the latter as having it? And if so, why?
I still think the gum-on-shoe analogy is dismissive of how those fetuses died, whether the death was intentional or not.
(to the bolded part) It's likely to be a very personal experience and not one that can be generalized. I've known women to very much mourn... and I'm sure others who don't. Me, I've had a miscarriage - a LOT of women have them. And yes I did mourn.
Jeanwah - I agree. I've had a couple miscarriages, and grieving is a natural part of that. I am sure that there are callous women who may not think too much about having an abortion, I don't think they are the general rule though. The out-of-pocket expense would be a great hindrance if nothing else, not to mention the physical discomfort. As far as grieving after an abortion goes, what about the couple who is happy to be pregnant and then discovers to their horror that there is something so wrong that it is incompatible with life? I would guess that the grieving begins with that diagnosis and carries on long after the pregnancy is terminated.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
actually, I know one. I slept with her. I later found out why she didn't care to use protection. She would just go get an abortion if she got pregnant. So yes, she used abortion as birth control. However, I don't believe this is common.
Um... Ok not to point out the screamingly obvious... but saying that "SHE" didn't care to use protection is false.
Birth control isn't just the woman's responsibility. You also didn't use protection. So you should have said "WE." Unless she tied you up and had sex with you against your will, that was also partly your job and you chose not to do it.
So don't be blaming her... technically even if she DID use abortion for birth control... she still used more than you did.
Right?
Or wait... if your form of birth control "lose the slut's phone number once I had my fun?"
jesus christ man. ease up. I just said "she didn't care..." because at that point in my life I didn't care either, so once she didn't, it was a done deal. and she didn't get pregnant with me, to my knowledge. I didn't "lose the slut's phone number". we were friends before and we are still to this day.
why always so hostile?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
jesus christ man. ease up. I just said "she didn't care..." because at that point in my life I didn't care either, so once she didn't, it was a done deal. and she didn't get pregnant with me, to my knowledge. I didn't "lose the slut's phone number". we were friends before and we are still to this day.
why always so hostile?
Honestly, I know I laid that on a bit thick... but it's not really fair, regardless of how old you were, to talk about someone else's bad birth control choices when you didn't even have one, bad or otherwise.
I mean... I've practiced safe sex my whole life and unwanted pregnancies were never a worry for me.
jesus christ man. ease up. I just said "she didn't care..." because at that point in my life I didn't care either, so once she didn't, it was a done deal. and she didn't get pregnant with me, to my knowledge. I didn't "lose the slut's phone number". we were friends before and we are still to this day.
why always so hostile?
Honestly, I know I laid that on a bit thick... but it's not really fair, regardless of how old you were, to talk about someone else's bad birth control choices when you didn't even have one, bad or otherwise.
I mean... I've practiced safe sex my whole life and unwanted pregnancies were never a worry for me.
well good for you. I went through a stage where I didn't care, so no, I didn't always. I never said it is solely the responsibility of the woman for birth control. you just made a wild accusation that I did.
all I was doing was responding to your claim that no woman uses abortion as birth control, and I know someone that did. case closed. don't go on some male responsibility crusade at my expense when that had nothing to do with my point. yes, I made horrible protection choices when I was young. I never said I didn't. luckily I came out of it alright.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I beg to differ. I think birth control is completely a woman's responsibility. I mean a man CAN take responsibility for it, but the weight rests on the shoulders of the woman.
I beg to differ. I think birth control is completely a woman's responsibility. I mean a man CAN take responsibility for it, but the weight rests on the shoulders of the woman.
and how does that work? if she gets pregnant, is the baby all her responsibility too? because she couldn't have gotten fertilized without the hose.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
There is not all that much to explain. I believe that birth control/contraceptive is the responsibility of the female. She is the one who gets pregnant.
She is the deciding factor. It is her baby. She carries it for nine months. Just my opinion.
There is not all that much to explain. I believe that birth control/contraceptive is the responsibility of the female. She is the one who gets pregnant.
She is the deciding factor. It is her baby. She carries it for nine months. Just my opinion.
This is an extension of the lack of personal responsibility we see in a lot of very selfish people. Yes, they make a mess... But it's someone else's job to clean that up. They refuse to do their own share of anything.
But man... If someone else causes them a problem... Boy do we hear the crying and screaming.
They hit you with a car... You should watch where you're going. You hit THEM with a car... Well you should drive around them and MAN is there some hell to pay.
Or... She gets pregnant...it's her fault... But ill bet that if you got an std from a girl... You sure would be screaming about how that slut did you wrong.
There is not all that much to explain. I believe that birth control/contraceptive is the responsibility of the female. She is the one who gets pregnant.
She is the deciding factor. It is her baby. She carries it for nine months. Just my opinion.
This is an extension of the lack of personal responsibility we see in a lot of very selfish people. Yes, they make a mess... But it's someone else's job to clean that up. They refuse to do their own share of anything.
But man... If someone else causes them a problem... Boy do we hear the crying and screaming.
They hit you with a car... You should watch where you're going. You hit THEM with a car... Well you should drive around them and MAN is there some hell to pay.
Or... She gets pregnant...it's her fault... But ill bet that if you got an std from a girl... You sure would be screaming about how that slut did you wrong.
I agree that is the talk of a selfish person.
But to the question of of fetuses having a soul I am going to have to say maybe. As to if they would go to heaven/hell, I would have to say no as these two places are a man made construct.
Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
There is not all that much to explain. I believe that birth control/contraceptive is the responsibility of the female. She is the one who gets pregnant.
She is the deciding factor. It is her baby. She carries it for nine months. Just my opinion.
all you have to do is buy a mask for your little head and all is good.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm just saying that if I could get pregnant. If when I had sex, it was possible that I would have to carry a child in my womb for nine months with the added possibility that I may have to raise the child by myself, I would sure as hell take it to be MY responsibility to make sure I didn't get pregnant if I didn't want to. I sure would not think that it was the man's responsibility to keep me from getting pregnant. That's type of thinking sounds backwards to me.
You folks seem to be thinking about what's right or what a noble person should be doing. I am not. Lets say I sleep around and don't care if I impregnate a girl. Whose responsible for the contraception?
I'm just saying that if I could get pregnant. If when I had sex, it was possible that I would have to carry a child in my womb for nine months with the added possibility that I may have to raise the child by myself, I would sure as hell take it to be MY responsibility to make sure I didn't get pregnant if I didn't want to. I sure would not think that it was the man's responsibility to keep me from getting pregnant. That's type of thinking sounds backwards to me.
You folks seem to be thinking about what's right or what a noble person should be doing. I am not. Lets say I sleep around and don't care if I impregnate a girl. Whose responsible for the contraception?
ok, I THINK I get what you are getting at here. basically if the girl wants to make sure she doesn't get pregnant, she should take all precautions whether the guy is going to be possibly carrying protection or not. I see what you are saying.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Lets say I sleep around and don't care if I impregnate a girl. Whose responsible for the contraception?
When you get slapped for maintenance for the kid you may start caring (though maybe in a not very positive way) & think twice about the responsibility of contraception.
But I'll bet that if that same girl gives you an STD... you'll change your tune pretty damn fast... it was HER responsibility to protect you from it.
(and before anyone says otherwise... there are people who are HIV+ in jail for years for having sex and not telling their partners that they were infected...even though the partner wasn't infected.)
Comments
Why didn't you use protection? Not to be so abrasive, but you know that it takes two to tango...
she's safe and sound in the driveway...don't you worry...I'll take you for a ride when you come and visit...
(to the bolded part) It's likely to be a very personal experience and not one that can be generalized. I've known women to very much mourn... and I'm sure others who don't. Me, I've had a miscarriage - a LOT of women have them. And yes I did mourn.
To me, we're souls borrowing a human body than the other way around. The spirit lives before the birth of a human, and they continue on after the body dies. Spirit continues...
Probably just my own perception though.
Not at all.
Um... Ok not to point out the screamingly obvious... but saying that "SHE" didn't care to use protection is false.
Birth control isn't just the woman's responsibility. You also didn't use protection. So you should have said "WE." Unless she tied you up and had sex with you against your will, that was also partly your job and you chose not to do it.
So don't be blaming her... technically even if she DID use abortion for birth control... she still used more than you did.
Right?
Or wait... if your form of birth control "lose the slut's phone number once I had my fun?"
I was young and stupid (many many years ago). I'm not blaming her for anything, all I was saying was this was the reason that I found out later why she didn't care about using it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
could be just my brother and his religion.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
jesus christ man. ease up. I just said "she didn't care..." because at that point in my life I didn't care either, so once she didn't, it was a done deal. and she didn't get pregnant with me, to my knowledge. I didn't "lose the slut's phone number". we were friends before and we are still to this day.
why always so hostile?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Honestly, I know I laid that on a bit thick... but it's not really fair, regardless of how old you were, to talk about someone else's bad birth control choices when you didn't even have one, bad or otherwise.
I mean... I've practiced safe sex my whole life and unwanted pregnancies were never a worry for me.
well good for you. I went through a stage where I didn't care, so no, I didn't always. I never said it is solely the responsibility of the woman for birth control. you just made a wild accusation that I did.
all I was doing was responding to your claim that no woman uses abortion as birth control, and I know someone that did. case closed. don't go on some male responsibility crusade at my expense when that had nothing to do with my point. yes, I made horrible protection choices when I was young. I never said I didn't. luckily I came out of it alright.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and how does that work? if she gets pregnant, is the baby all her responsibility too? because she couldn't have gotten fertilized without the hose.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
that's not what I asked. you don't think a man is responsible for a baby he helped create?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I feel like ol' Moe here...
She is the deciding factor. It is her baby. She carries it for nine months. Just my opinion.
This is an extension of the lack of personal responsibility we see in a lot of very selfish people. Yes, they make a mess... But it's someone else's job to clean that up. They refuse to do their own share of anything.
But man... If someone else causes them a problem... Boy do we hear the crying and screaming.
They hit you with a car... You should watch where you're going. You hit THEM with a car... Well you should drive around them and MAN is there some hell to pay.
Or... She gets pregnant...it's her fault... But ill bet that if you got an std from a girl... You sure would be screaming about how that slut did you wrong.
I agree that is the talk of a selfish person.
But to the question of of fetuses having a soul I am going to have to say maybe. As to if they would go to heaven/hell, I would have to say no as these two places are a man made construct.
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
Powered by Pearl Jam
all you have to do is buy a mask for your little head and all is good.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You folks seem to be thinking about what's right or what a noble person should be doing. I am not. Lets say I sleep around and don't care if I impregnate a girl. Whose responsible for the contraception?
ok, I THINK I get what you are getting at here. basically if the girl wants to make sure she doesn't get pregnant, she should take all precautions whether the guy is going to be possibly carrying protection or not. I see what you are saying.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
he's talking about a hypothetical worst case scenario here, not himself.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
(and before anyone says otherwise... there are people who are HIV+ in jail for years for having sex and not telling their partners that they were infected...even though the partner wasn't infected.)