The Death Penalty

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

If it's speculation, then go ahead and provide evidence to the contrary.

Quit your fucking trolling.

I don't need to provide evidence for someone's speculative essay. It's like me putting up an article on the web and saying I saw JFK and MArilyn Monroe on a space ship last night and then telling you to prove me wrong. Simply ridiculous.

So is the The University of Michigan law school and Northwestern University study just speculation?

Was the Columbia law school study just speculation?

Is the Death Penalty Information Center study just speculation?

Stop your fucking trolling. And stop trying to derail this thread.

DS1119 · January 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

If it's speculation, then go ahead and provide evidence to the contrary.

Quit your fucking trolling.

I don't need to provide evidence for someone's speculative essay. It's like me putting up an article on the web and saying I saw JFK and MArilyn Monroe on a space ship last night and then telling you to prove me wrong. Simply ridiculous.

So is the The University of Michigan law school and Northwestern University study just speculation?

Was the Columbia law school study just speculation?

Is the Death Penalty Information Center study just speculation?

Stop your fucking trolling. And stop trying to derail this thread.

Yes they are speculation. Just because it's a "study" doesn't make it fact.

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

Yes they are speculation. Just because it's a "study" doesn't make it fact.

They are studies based on the recorded numbers. They are based on the facts.

If you have evidence to the contrary then go ahead and provide it. And if not, then quit trolling.

DS1119 · January 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Yes they are speculation. Just because it's a "study" doesn't make it fact.

They are studies based on the recorded numbers. They are based on the facts.

If you have evidence to the contrary then go ahead and provide it. And if not, then quit trolling.

Like I said...I don't have to provide facts against speculation of someone's translations of numbers. That's lunacy. I could sit here and compare the numbers of caning which isn't legal in the US to other parts of the world where it is and make it case that it works...and also make a case it doesn't work.

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

Like I said...I don't have to provide facts against speculation of someone's translations of numbers. That's lunacy. I could sit here and compare the numbers of caning which isn't legal in the US to other parts of the world where it is and make it case that it works...and also make a case it doesn't work.

It has nothing to do with 'someone's translations of numbers'

According to the The University of Michigan law school and Northwestern University stufy, 'Death row inmates were exonerated nine times more frequently than others convicted of murder. One-fourth of those exonerated of murder had received a death sentence, while half of those who had been wrongfully convicted of rape or murder faced death or a life behind bars. Ten of the inmates went to their grave before their names were cleared.'

Is that true, or is it false?

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

Like I said...I don't have to provide facts against speculation of someone's translations of numbers. That's lunacy. I could sit here and compare the numbers of caning which isn't legal in the US to other parts of the world where it is and make it case that it works...and also make a case it doesn't work.

Anyway, I'm not gonna risk a ban by responding to any more of your childish bullshit.

DS1119 · January 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Like I said...I don't have to provide facts against speculation of someone's translations of numbers. That's lunacy. I could sit here and compare the numbers of caning which isn't legal in the US to other parts of the world where it is and make it case that it works...and also make a case it doesn't work.

You're a troll.

And I'm not gonna risk a ban by responding to anymore of your childish bullshit.

You're the one calling me names. I don't insult people. It's your right to not respond to anything I post and I respect that.

DS1119 · January 2013

"The death penalty is a warning, just like a lighthouse throwing its beams out to sea. We hear about shipwrecks, but we do not hear about the ships the lighthouse guides safely on their way. We do not have proof of the number of ships it saves, but we do not tear the lighthouse down". - poet Hyman Barshay

"If we design a legal system that will be so generous to the suspect that there is absolutely no possibility of unjustly convicting that one out of ten thousand defendants who, in spite of overwhelming evidence, is really innocent, then we have also designed a legal system that is utterly incapable of convicting the other 9999 about whose guilt there is no mistake."
-- G. Edward Griffin in The Great Prison Break

Very interesting website with a lot of useful information.

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

"The death penalty is a warning, just like a lighthouse throwing its beams out to sea. We hear about shipwrecks, but we do not hear about the ships the lighthouse guides safely on their way. We do not have proof of the number of ships it saves, but we do not tear the lighthouse down". - poet Hyman Barshay

The death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent. This has been proven. And some shit poet claiming otherwise doesn't change this fact.

DS1119 · January 2013

Byrnzie wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

"The death penalty is a warning, just like a lighthouse throwing its beams out to sea. We hear about shipwrecks, but we do not hear about the ships the lighthouse guides safely on their way. We do not have proof of the number of ships it saves, but we do not tear the lighthouse down". - poet Hyman Barshay

The death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent. This has been proven. And some shit poet claiming otherwise doesn't change this fact.

Keep trolling.

Proven?

Byrnzie · January 2013

DS1119 wrote:

Proven?

That's right. Proven.

Oh, and it appears Hyman Barshay wasn't a poet. He was a judge. Though it's hard to find out seeing as he was such an irrelevance there's hardly any available information on him.
But then I suppose you'll gran any crumb you find in your desperate effort to defend and justify state-sponsored revenge killings.

Byrnzie · January 2013

Kat wrote:

New rule: Calling someone a troll is verboten...no more. Just express your opinion on the subject and leave other members alone.

Thanks.

Whoops! Missed this one.

your move now · January 2013

so you learnt nothing from the tw*t incident then?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2013

don't ever give the government power to take away our arms, but by god, let them have the power to take away our lives!

:fp:

Thirty Bills Unpaid · January 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

don't ever give the government power to take away our arms, but by god, let them have the power to take away our lives!

:fp:

You would never need to worry, Hugh.

Only sick, predatory bastards would.

I use an expression often when it comes to coaching: You get what you tolerate.

Consider the following:

Nobody can say if the families’ pain will be eased with Olson’s death from cancer Friday in a prison hospital. Each child was different and so was the way each was mourned. Some families have kept out of the media glare as Olson infamously taunted them with sadistic disclosures to tabloid journalists, nefarious legal appeals, and futile appearances before the National Parole Board. Others have been very vocal with the media and have insisted on being present at every parole hearing to stand before Olson on behalf of the children he murdered.

The reactions to the news that Olson was dying ranged from anger to uncertainty. “I’ve waited 30 years for this. Once he is dead, justice will be done. They should not have taken the death penalty away just before he murdered our children,” Terry Bizeau, mother of 15-year-old victim Terri Lyn Carson, said in an e-mail to The Globe.

“I just hope when he dies, it’s real soon. I hope it’s really painful for him,” Ray King, the father of 15-year-old Raymond King, Olson’s eighth victim, told the National Post.

These people received no closure from the crimes that rocked their world. They re-lived the horror of their children's final hours daily and were reminded of it periodically from a voice that should have been eradicated from this earth. Throughout this thread, much has been made about the killer and what needs to be done for them. It is my opinion that they conceded their rights as a human being when they left the human race to pleasure themselves in utterly sick fashion. As such, our courts and society should be looking to the needs of the survivors as our priority and offer whatever we can to alleviate the suffering they have been forced to endure. In short... fuck the child murderer.

People who have not been personally affected by such tragedy are not the best people to decide what is right and what is wrong: they have no authentic perspective and it is easy to armchair philosophize about 'what is right and what is wrong' with fluff. Imagine how frustrating it must be for an indifferent society to ignore the pain that has been delivered to you in the event of a parent's worst nightmare:

At every step of the investigation, prosecution and incarceration of the sadistic murderer of their children, the families were treated as an inconvenience, rather than emotionally affected participants. Out of their anger and humiliation the Rosenfeldts reached out to other families, forming the Parents of BC Murder Victims in July, 1981.

“Over and above the death of Daryn, and the ugly manner in which he died,” Mrs. Rosenfeldt said, “our anger became very much focused on the justice system. It was born out of sheer hurt at our loss of dignity in the way we were treated and in particular for the loss of dignity for my little boy. Nobody, I felt gave a damn about his life, other than us, and my family.”

No enlightened philosophy here. Only reality. We failed these people and for what? Cash for bodies. Sex dolls. Isolated, cushy cell. Cable television. Headlines. Fuck me.

Source:
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

peacefrompaul · January 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

don't ever give the government power to take away our arms, but by god, let them have the power to take away our lives!

:fp:

That's a good point

blueandwhite · January 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

don't ever give the government power to take away our arms, but by god, let them have the power to take away our lives!

:fp:

You would never need to worry, Hugh.

Only sick, predatory bastards would.

I use an expression often when it comes to coaching: You get what you tolerate.

On the flip side, as a Canadian you need to consider the likes of David Marshall, Guy Paul Morin,or David Milgaard when making such a claim. None of these men were the sick, predatory men you are berating yet they all found themselves on the wrong side of the law. If Canada continued to have the death penalty what would have happened to the likes of them? It's so easy to take a life; giving back one that is wrongfully taken is an entirely different matter. I personally believe that life in prison should mean just that; life with no possibility of parole. Once you take a person's life you can't undo your error. You can't give them back what you've wrongfully taken

The death penalty is vengeance; nothing more, nothing less. It isn't a deterrent and it has nothing to do with justice.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · January 2013

blueandwhite wrote:

On the flip side, as a Canadian you need to consider the likes of David Marshall, Guy Paul Morin,or David Milgaard when making such a claim. None of these men were the sick, predatory men you are berating yet they all found themselves on the wrong side of the law. If Canada continued to have the death penalty what would have happened to the likes of them? It's so easy to take a life; giving back one that is wrongfully taken is an entirely different matter. I personally believe that life in prison should mean just that; life with no possibility of parole. Once you take a person's life you can't undo your error. You can't give them back what you've wrongfully taken

The death penalty is vengeance; nothing more, nothing less. It isn't a deterrent and it has nothing to do with justice.

Those case are from 1971, 1984, and 1969 (respectively). They are definitely worth learning from, but let's get serious: forensic science has come leap years since those days. Factor in social media that some like to utilize (such as Magnotta or Bernardo) and many cases are flat out 'slam dunks' compared to what they used to be. As significant as it might have been towards this debate at one time, the 'might get the wrong guy' is losing relevance in light of our advances.

In an earlier post, I described that only some cases of the extreme variety- coupled with 'conditions' that made the case very clear- should be considered for the death penalty.

What you call 'vengeance' I call 'justice'. Merriam-Webster describes justice as the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments... and vengeance as (punishment inflicted in retaliation for an injury or offense . They are synonymous if you ask me.

It is said that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Tell me how it is 'justice' when a serial, sadistic child rapist (Olson) murders 11 kids in horrific fashion, gets sentenced, and receives cash, sex dolls, cable television and nice, warm meals with people to do his laundry? I'm not suggesting sodomizing and mutilating the bastard as he did with his victims, but certainly 'clinical' death is NOT a stretch given the extreme nature of his offences. Guys do harder time for theft or drugs.

I hear people speak of problems within the system and that maybe we need to ammend conditions for said criminals so that their time isn't as 'light' as what they have proven to be. To these people I ask the following: given the opportunity... would you seriously opt for the sentence Olson served versus capital punishment? If so... do you actually think this is justice served?

JC29856 · January 2013

we come so far from those days, havent we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

The execution of George Stinney was carried out at the South Carolina State Penitentiary in Columbia, on June 16, 1944. At 7:30 p.m., Stinney walked to the execution chamber with a Bible under his arm, which he later used as a booster seat in the electric chair. [5] Standing 5 foot 1 inch (155 cm) tall and weighing just over 90 pounds (40 kg),[4] he was small for his age, which presented difficulties in securing him to the frame holding the electrodes. Nor did the state's adult-sized face-mask fit him; as he was hit with the first 2,400 V surge of electricity, the mask covering his face slipped off, “revealing his wide-open, tearful eyes and saliva coming from his mouth”...After two more jolts of electricity, the boy was dead."[8][9] Stinney was declared dead within four minutes of the initial electrocution. From the time of the murders until Stinney's execution, eighty-one days had passed.[5]

(still yawning)

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2013

JC29856 wrote:

we come so far from those days, havent we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

The execution of George Stinney was carried out at the South Carolina State Penitentiary in Columbia, on June 16, 1944. At 7:30 p.m., Stinney walked to the execution chamber with a Bible under his arm, which he later used as a booster seat in the electric chair. [5] Standing 5 foot 1 inch (155 cm) tall and weighing just over 90 pounds (40 kg),[4] he was small for his age, which presented difficulties in securing him to the frame holding the electrodes. Nor did the state's adult-sized face-mask fit him; as he was hit with the first 2,400 V surge of electricity, the mask covering his face slipped off, “revealing his wide-open, tearful eyes and saliva coming from his mouth”...After two more jolts of electricity, the boy was dead."[8][9] Stinney was declared dead within four minutes of the initial electrocution. From the time of the murders until Stinney's execution, eighty-one days had passed.[5]

(still yawning)

jesus.

The Death Penalty

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