This case doesn't strike me as being of the 'extreme' nature (as violent as it might have been). If I have my facts straight: it was not a random act, it wasn't in serial or mass fashion, the victim was not a child, and despite a near decapitation... there was no macabre element to it. It's not a qualifier for the death penalty in my books.
With that said... if she wants it then let her have it.
I'm not sure why people can't get their heads around the simple concept of consequences? If I make the choice to sleep in every day and miss work: I get fired. If I make the choice to eat McDonald's every day and never exercise: I get fat. If I make the choice to go out in the sun every day without sunscreen: I run the risk of getting skin cancer. If I make a choice to rape and murder a child: I get sentenced to death.
People arguing about the morality of executing a person who has committed an extreme and heinous offence lose sight of the fact that nobody wishes for state executions: they wish for our children to walk home from school safely and our daughters to sleep in their beds without risk. When someone makes the choice to exercise their morbid fantasies... they face consequences. The more severe the act... the more severe the consequence.
This isn't about deterrent as much as it is about obvious and corresponding response from a society. Some who argue against the death penalty suggest it is cruel. Then they argue that a life in solitary confinement is worse. So, the natural question here is what is it exactly you want? I figure it cannot be a mulligan or a comprehensive rehabilitation program complete with an intramural component... so what exactly does justice look like for Tori Stafford and her surviving family?
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Jodi Arias, more manipulation? She chooses death. Heaven forbid she should choose
to be something good for someone. To feel guilt, to live sorrow like the loved ones
of her victim. Is this was one mentally ill too?
I have not followed, only heard this on the radio news ... she chooses death
cause a lifetime in one place is too long. :? Clearly doesn't appreciate life at all.
or...
figures if she asks for a death sentence it will not be granted.
disagree. I'd choose death over a life in prison as well. if you think someone who would prefer death over life in prison doesn't appreciate life then you don't know a thing about life in prison.
you don't have much faith in a justice system if all it takes is for one poor sap to use reverse psychology on the jury, prosecution and judge to get what they want.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
The Boston bomber is only 19, surely he can be rehabilitated over time so if prison is not for punishment would you be in favor of releasing him back into society if he's deemed rehabilitated in say 10 years?
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
But what if someone goes mad simply by being imprisoned with just the necessities?
(and I think more than "just" is often provided)
I do, at times, want vengeance, and punishment. I want people like Castro to suffer. Not sure I'm willing or even able to justify this as it comes from a visceral place that's pretty difficult to articulate.
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
The Boston bomber is only 19, surely he can be rehabilitated over time so if prison is not for punishment would you be in favor of releasing him back into society if he's deemed rehabilitated in say 10 years?
no, it's not just about rehabilitation. it's also, as I said, about making sure the public is safe. I don't know if you can ever rehabilitate an extremist.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
But what if someone goes mad simply by being imprisoned with just the necessities?
(and I think more than "just" is often provided)
I do, at times, want vengeance, and punishment. I want people like Castro to suffer. Not sure I'm willing or even able to justify this as it comes from a visceral place that's pretty difficult to articulate.
sure some would go mad with just the necessities. I'm sure I'd go nuts just being in general population. But that's the least of what is required to keep society safe. solitary, in my eyes, isn't needed unless the general population or the inmate themselves are in danger from either the prisoner or the other inmates, respectively.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
ohio get ready to fire up your lethal injections & your hot seat. it's fricking on
one needle, one drug. effective. Thanks Wilfred Barry for becomeing "the volunteer" He was the first to be executed in Ohio since SCOTUS lifted the ban.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.
BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.
“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.
As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.
Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.
In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.
Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.
“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.
“No,’’ Morales replied.
“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.
“Yes,” Morales responded.
Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.
He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.
Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.
“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.
Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.
“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”
Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.
His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.
Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.
BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.
“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.
As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.
Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.
In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.
Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.
“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.
“No,’’ Morales replied.
“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.
“Yes,” Morales responded.
Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.
He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.
Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.
“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.
Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.
“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”
Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.
His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.
Because there is no death penalty in my state this psychotic piece of shit will be fed, clothed and housed all on the tax payers' dime for the rest of his life. The death penalty is used too often. It is used in cases where it should not apply, where there is a conceivable doubt. This is not one of those cases. This guy should go.
BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.
“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.
As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.
Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.
In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.
Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.
“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.
“No,’’ Morales replied.
“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.
“Yes,” Morales responded.
Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.
He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.
Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.
“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.
Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.
“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”
Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.
His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.
Mentally ill.
And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.
And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.
millions are "damaged beyond repair". should we just kill them all too? you don't kill someone for being sick.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
all youd have to do is take away all access to books and I would go not so slowly round the bend. keep me locked up as well and the trip will be much shorter and a little more spectacular.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.
millions are "damaged beyond repair". should we just kill them all too? you don't kill someone for being sick.
No, millions do not commit the vicious murders he did. He isn't being punished because he has a history of mental illness. He is being punished because he now has a history of multiple murder.
Extremism is not always a sign of mental illness.....although the fact he was in that psychiatric hospital for such a long time would suggest he clearly has issues.
However did his mental deficiencies really affect his ability to know right from wrong? Killing is killing and this guy wanted to kill people based on his racial biogtry. He is scum in my mind and deserves to spend every last waking hour incarcerated.
Does he deserve the death penalty? does anyone, but even those who are pro death, would certainly need to know much more than is in that article to make any sort of educated decision on that
Not everyone is up for cooking this guy's meals or listen to him blather about how he's sorry that he killed 4 people in cold blood either, but this is a job that needs to be done. Melinda Cromar (and her father, Bob Crowell) might be up for it. Especially when you listen to their anger regarding Hickenlooper's failure to provide justice for the deceased and their survivors: "He took a coward’s way out,” said Melinda Cromar, whose 19-year-old sister Sylvia Crowell was among those killed by Dunlap. “I am just so angry.”
At least someone is happy though: “Mr. Dunlap was grateful,” his attorney Philip Cherner said after Hickenlooper’s announcement. “His expressions of remorse were genuine. He is truly sad for what happened.”
Oh shit! You're sorry? Are you sure you're sorry? Really sorry? And you're sad too? Hold up everybody, I think this guy's sorry!
Always after the fact, eh? Looking back... I really wish I had not hid in the bathroom to later come out with all my rage and execute all the restaurant workers just trying to make a living. Even the girl who plead for her life on her knees.
Hickenlooper offered this scumbag mercy after he denied it to his victims. Sorry, this just doesn't add up for me.
Ocean, you might feel differently if it was your daughter shot in the head as she pleaded for her life.
in many cases i myself would be thrilled to put some monsters out of commission permanently, mentally ill or not, this dangerous freak deserves no oxygen in my humble opinion. colorado's governor is a softy.
in many cases i myself would be thrilled to put some monsters out of commission permanently, mentally ill or not, this dangerous freak deserves no oxygen in my humble opinion. colorado's governor is a softy.
Yup.
And he's only now pushing for Jessica's Law after being called out on not doing so all this time.
Well, the insanity plea was always inevitable. I do not know whether Holmes is mentally ill or not but honestly I don't care. How tiny is the percentage of mentally ill individuals who plot and carry out mass murder the way Holmes did? How can you be not guilty by reason of insanity when you spent months plotting your crime? I think mental illness is too often pointed to as an excuse. This man deserves the death penalty.
"Prosecutors say Holmes spent months buying weapons, ammunition and materials for explosives and scouted the theater in advance. He donned police-style body armor, tossed a gas canister into the seats and opened fire, they say."
Well, the insanity plea was always inevitable. I do not know whether Holmes is mentally ill or not but honestly I don't care. How tiny is the percentage of mentally ill individuals who plot and carry out mass murder the way Holmes did? How can you be not guilty by reason of insanity when you spent months plotting your crime? I think mental illness is too often pointed to as an excuse. This man deserves the death penalty.
"Prosecutors say Holmes spent months buying weapons, ammunition and materials for explosives and scouted the theater in advance. He donned police-style body armor, tossed a gas canister into the seats and opened fire, they say."
America's private prison system is a national disgrace
An ACLU lawsuit against a prison in Mississippi is the latest to detail flagrant abuses at a private correctional facility
Jill Filipovic
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 June 2013
The privatization of traditional government functions – and big government payments to private contractors – isn't limited to international intelligence operations like the National Security Agency. It's happening with little oversight in dozens of areas once the province of government, from schools to airports to the military. The shifting of government responsibilities to private actors isn't without consequence, as privatization often comes with a lack of oversight and a series of abuses. One particularly stunning example is the American prison system, the realities of which should be a national disgrace.
Some of those realities are highlighted in a recent lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of prisoners at the East Mississippi Correctional Facility (EMCF). EMCF houses severely mentally ill prisoners, with the supposed intent of providing both incarceration and treatment. Instead, the ACLU contends, the facility, which is operated by private contractors, is rife with horrific abuses. As the ACLU states, it is
"an extremely dangerous facility operating in a perpetual state of crisis, where prisoners live in barbaric and horrific conditions and their basic human rights are violated daily."
The complaint lists a litany of such horrors, but here are a few highlights: rampant rapes. Placing prisoners in solitary confinement for weeks, months or even years at a time, where the only way to get a guard's attention in an emergency is to set a fire. Rat infestations so bad that vermin crawl over prisoners; sometimes, the rats are captured, put on leashes and sold as pets to the most severely mentally ill inmates. Many suicide attempts, some successful. The untreated mentally ill throw feces, scream, start fires, electrocute themselves and self-mutilate. Denying or delaying treatment for infections and even cancer. Stabbings, beatings and other acts of violence. Juveniles being housed with adults, including one 16-year-old who was sexually assaulted by his adult cell mate. Malnourishment and chronic hunger. Officers who deal with prisoners by using physical violence.
....A severely ill 16-year-old with "a long history of being physically and sexually abused in addition to suffering from a traumatic brain injury, limited intellectual functioning, self-harm, and psychosis" was moved to EMCF from a juvenile detention center. His cell allegedly had a broken lock, and so other prisoners were able to enter. Five or six of them beat him. He was moved to a solitary confinement unit and, when he voiced his suicidal ideations and asked to see a psychiatrist, was deemed "manipulating to be moved".
Another told prison mental health staff that he was depressed and thinking about about suicide. The treatment plan from the prison psychologist was reportedly three words: "encourage behavioral compliance". After being asked to provide a urine specimen, which he could not give because of a health condition, the ACLU reports:
"Mr. Roe began banging on his door, smeared blood on the cell door window, threatened to commit suicide, and tied a rope around his neck. Officers sprayed excessive amounts of Mace in his cell. According to witnesses, officers waited approximately 20 minutes before pulling Mr. Roe out of his cell. By that time, he was non-responsive and cyanotic. He was taken, his hands and feet bound by zip-ties, to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
For several days after Mr. Roe's death, medical staff continued to 'document' in the daily segregation log that Mr. Roe appeared to be 'in good health and mood.'"
These kinds of abuses are not relegated to a single prison, but they also aren't inherent in any detention system. In the United States, though, they're business as usual. Our prison system is increasingly built and run by for-profit corporations, who have a financial interest in increasing the number of people in prison while decreasing the amount of money it costs to house them.
Since 1980, the US prison population has grown by 790%. We have the largest prison population of any nation in the history of the world. One in three African-American men will go to jail at some point in his life. Imprisoning that many people, most of them for non-violent offenses, doesn't come cheap, especially when you're paying private contractors. The United States now spends $50bn on our corrections system every year.
...Large-scale imprisonment isn't making us any safer, either. But it is putting small-time non-violent individuals – drug users and dealers – in close contact with more hardened criminals and making it significantly more difficult for them to find decent work after their release. That's a perfect recipe for recidivism, not rehabilitation.
Prisons, as demonstrated by the ACLU case, have also become de facto mass institutions for the mentally ill, except without the oversight that pure psychiatric facilities face. With states tightening their budgets, mental health care is being cut even further. While the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of crimes than victimizers, they are imprisoned at disproportionate rates, and often lack meaningful mental healthcare in prison and even face conditions that exacerbate their diseases, like solitary confinement and total squalor. We're effectively taking some of the most vulnerable members of society and subjecting them to ongoing torture.
We have so demonized criminals in the United States that there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail in modern day America means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse. But to what end? "Criminals" are punished, yes – brutally, and in ways that should repel and shame us. But rehabilitation isn't happening in these facilities. Crime isn't being deterred; if anything, it's being fostered.
The American public is losing out. The only winners are the private companies who are still awarded contracts to build and maintain more prisons, and who throw their weight behind politicians who promote the supposedly "tough on crime" measures that ensure those prisons are full.
There are many ways to punish crime and protect the public. Ceding our humanity doesn't have to be one of them.
The passage you quoted is indeed disturbing- it reads as a horror movie script. There are a couple of things I would like to comment on:
Forgive my ignorance, but I had no idea that there were private, for-profit prisons in the US. This is not good.
One in three African-American men will go to jail at some point in his life. Imprisoning that many people, most of them for non-violent offenses, doesn't come cheap, especially when you're paying private contractors.
One in three? Those are staggering statistics if they are accurate.
Prisons, as demonstrated by the ACLU case, have also become de facto mass institutions for the mentally ill, except without the oversight that pure psychiatric facilities face.
As much as I have been outspoken for appropriate measures of justice for the victims of Vince Li (the Greyhound cannibal), this passage and the details right after it have me pause for thought.
We have so demonized criminals in the United States that there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail in modern day America means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse. But to what end? "Criminals" are punished, yes – brutally, and in ways that should repel and shame us. But rehabilitation isn't happening in these facilities. Crime isn't being deterred; if anything, it's being fostered.
While I agree with the text within the passage that appeals to better judgement for handling 'petty' criminals... the faction of inmates serving time for violent offences- in particular, murder- still do not have my sympathy; however, placing small time hoods in the same facility with hardened, violent and psychopathic criminals is short-sighted at best.
There are many ways to punish crime and protect the public. Ceding our humanity doesn't have to be one of them.
Let's hear them. While this was an eyebrow raising read, I'm not a big fan of critical pieces that fail to offer alternatives. Anyone can be a critic, but it is much more difficult to be a problem-solver. Before I buy in, what is it exactly that Filipovic is selling?
in many cases i myself would be thrilled to put some monsters out of commission permanently, mentally ill or not, this dangerous freak deserves no oxygen in my humble opinion. colorado's governor is a softy.
Killing another human is wrong...period. Two wrongs do not make a right. If we kill out of vengence we are no better than the people we kill. Lock em up for good, make em press plates..give em just enough comfort to keep em sane.....and if we find out they were railroaded to conviction we can let them go. Simple isn't it?
To you, it may not be healthy to seek vengeance... but to 'others' it is. To some, it is not healthy to attend parole hearings every two years to protest the potential release of the scumbag who raped and murdered your child.
It's easy to philosophize when it wasn't your child under the knife.
Comments
after researching it a bit, I don't agree with solitary confinement either. making a person go mad constitutes cruel and unusual in my book. some people cannot be rehabilitated. so you keep them locked up. no freedom. just the necessities. I'm not looking for vengeance. I'm looking for society to be safe from them, which is, to me, the whole point of the justice system and jail in the first place, not punishment, but for public safety.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
disagree. I'd choose death over a life in prison as well. if you think someone who would prefer death over life in prison doesn't appreciate life then you don't know a thing about life in prison.
you don't have much faith in a justice system if all it takes is for one poor sap to use reverse psychology on the jury, prosecution and judge to get what they want.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The Boston bomber is only 19, surely he can be rehabilitated over time so if prison is not for punishment would you be in favor of releasing him back into society if he's deemed rehabilitated in say 10 years?
(and I think more than "just" is often provided)
I do, at times, want vengeance, and punishment. I want people like Castro to suffer. Not sure I'm willing or even able to justify this as it comes from a visceral place that's pretty difficult to articulate.
no, it's not just about rehabilitation. it's also, as I said, about making sure the public is safe. I don't know if you can ever rehabilitate an extremist.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
sure some would go mad with just the necessities. I'm sure I'd go nuts just being in general population. But that's the least of what is required to keep society safe. solitary, in my eyes, isn't needed unless the general population or the inmate themselves are in danger from either the prisoner or the other inmates, respectively.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05 ... story.html
BROCKTON — After his arrest for a murderous rampage, alleged killer Keith Luke described to police a plot to invade the homes of non-whites, kill them, and drive to a temple hosting bingo night, where he had intended to have a “happy ending” by committing suicide.
“I decided I was going to kill as many non-whites as possible, and then kill myself,’’ Luke told police, his defense attorney said today in court.
As the disturbing and gruesome confession was recounted in Brockton Superior Court, Luke, on trial for attacking three Cape Verdean nationals, killing two of them, smirked, then stared ahead blankly.
Since the trial began Thursday, prosecutors have sought to portray Luke, a self-described neo-Nazi skinhead, as a cold-hearted killer who amassed a trove of hammers, crowbars, and medical devices to carry out his war against anyone who was not white.
In court today, Luke’s defense attorney Joseph F. Krowski Jr. used his client’s own words to police to paint a picture of a disturbed young man who had languished in psychiatric hospitals and then in isolation before he carried out his deadly acts.
Questioning the chief investigator in the case, Krowski pointed out that Luke had described a growing disgust over what he saw as whites being degraded and felt that “the Zionist government” was doing nothing about it. Luke also said Congress was going to pass a “thought crime law” and that authorities were building “FEMA camps” for whites like him, Krowski said.
“You didn’t go out and investigate whether there was a Zionist occupation for the case, did you?’’ Krowski asked the investigator, Trooper Elvin Morales.
“No,’’ Morales replied.
“Because you know that is gibberish, right?’’ Krowski said.
“Yes,” Morales responded.
Luke, a Brockton resident, is facing life in prison in the Jan. 21, 2009, fatal shootings of 20-year-old Selma Goncalves and 72-year-old Arlindo DePina Goncalves, who is not related to Selma.
He is also accused of raping and shooting Selma’s 22-year-old sister. The Globe is not identifying her because of the allegation that she is a rape victim.
Luke confessed to the crimes, but gave a series of bizarre explanations for his actions, saying, among other things, that he was angry over black men dating white women. He also said he had no friends or family and that he had never had sex and intended to have intercourse with a girl before he died.
“I have to sacrifice my life for something,’’ he said, according to testimony.
Morales testified that Luke made the statements while they were filling out paperwork at booking and then in a separate interview later. He had asked Luke a series of questions, including whether he was married or single. Luke responded in a chilling monotone.
“I am fighting for the dying race,’’ he told the trooper. “I am speaking the truth. I’m banned from a list that has blackballed me from everything.”
Luke, in white T-shirt and prison-issued green pants, sat quietly with one arm folded over the other during the trial. At one point, he wrote something on a yellow legal pad, and he smirked while his lawyer recounted his words for jurors.
His defense attorney said Luke had been in a psychiatric hospital for three years prior to 2009 and that prior to the killings, he had spent a majority of the time isolated from everyone else. He had only held a job for one day in his entire life.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Mentally ill.
And he will never not be mentally ill nor be a threat to kill again if he ever manages to escape. Perhaps he is damaged but if so he is damaged beyond repair. There is no reason to keep this man alive.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
millions are "damaged beyond repair". should we just kill them all too? you don't kill someone for being sick.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No, millions do not commit the vicious murders he did. He isn't being punished because he has a history of mental illness. He is being punished because he now has a history of multiple murder.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
However did his mental deficiencies really affect his ability to know right from wrong? Killing is killing and this guy wanted to kill people based on his racial biogtry. He is scum in my mind and deserves to spend every last waking hour incarcerated.
Does he deserve the death penalty? does anyone, but even those who are pro death, would certainly need to know much more than is in that article to make any sort of educated decision on that
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/g ... -execution
Not everyone is up for cooking this guy's meals or listen to him blather about how he's sorry that he killed 4 people in cold blood either, but this is a job that needs to be done. Melinda Cromar (and her father, Bob Crowell) might be up for it. Especially when you listen to their anger regarding Hickenlooper's failure to provide justice for the deceased and their survivors: "He took a coward’s way out,” said Melinda Cromar, whose 19-year-old sister Sylvia Crowell was among those killed by Dunlap. “I am just so angry.”
At least someone is happy though: “Mr. Dunlap was grateful,” his attorney Philip Cherner said after Hickenlooper’s announcement. “His expressions of remorse were genuine. He is truly sad for what happened.”
Oh shit! You're sorry? Are you sure you're sorry? Really sorry? And you're sad too? Hold up everybody, I think this guy's sorry!
Always after the fact, eh? Looking back... I really wish I had not hid in the bathroom to later come out with all my rage and execute all the restaurant workers just trying to make a living. Even the girl who plead for her life on her knees.
Hickenlooper offered this scumbag mercy after he denied it to his victims. Sorry, this just doesn't add up for me.
Ocean, you might feel differently if it was your daughter shot in the head as she pleaded for her life.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
And he's only now pushing for Jessica's Law after being called out on not doing so all this time.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2013/ ... story.html
"Prosecutors say Holmes spent months buying weapons, ammunition and materials for explosives and scouted the theater in advance. He donned police-style body armor, tossed a gas canister into the seats and opened fire, they say."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... l-facility
America's private prison system is a national disgrace
An ACLU lawsuit against a prison in Mississippi is the latest to detail flagrant abuses at a private correctional facility
Jill Filipovic
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 June 2013
The privatization of traditional government functions – and big government payments to private contractors – isn't limited to international intelligence operations like the National Security Agency. It's happening with little oversight in dozens of areas once the province of government, from schools to airports to the military. The shifting of government responsibilities to private actors isn't without consequence, as privatization often comes with a lack of oversight and a series of abuses. One particularly stunning example is the American prison system, the realities of which should be a national disgrace.
Some of those realities are highlighted in a recent lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on behalf of prisoners at the East Mississippi Correctional Facility (EMCF). EMCF houses severely mentally ill prisoners, with the supposed intent of providing both incarceration and treatment. Instead, the ACLU contends, the facility, which is operated by private contractors, is rife with horrific abuses. As the ACLU states, it is
"an extremely dangerous facility operating in a perpetual state of crisis, where prisoners live in barbaric and horrific conditions and their basic human rights are violated daily."
The complaint lists a litany of such horrors, but here are a few highlights: rampant rapes. Placing prisoners in solitary confinement for weeks, months or even years at a time, where the only way to get a guard's attention in an emergency is to set a fire. Rat infestations so bad that vermin crawl over prisoners; sometimes, the rats are captured, put on leashes and sold as pets to the most severely mentally ill inmates. Many suicide attempts, some successful. The untreated mentally ill throw feces, scream, start fires, electrocute themselves and self-mutilate. Denying or delaying treatment for infections and even cancer. Stabbings, beatings and other acts of violence. Juveniles being housed with adults, including one 16-year-old who was sexually assaulted by his adult cell mate. Malnourishment and chronic hunger. Officers who deal with prisoners by using physical violence.
....A severely ill 16-year-old with "a long history of being physically and sexually abused in addition to suffering from a traumatic brain injury, limited intellectual functioning, self-harm, and psychosis" was moved to EMCF from a juvenile detention center. His cell allegedly had a broken lock, and so other prisoners were able to enter. Five or six of them beat him. He was moved to a solitary confinement unit and, when he voiced his suicidal ideations and asked to see a psychiatrist, was deemed "manipulating to be moved".
Another told prison mental health staff that he was depressed and thinking about about suicide. The treatment plan from the prison psychologist was reportedly three words: "encourage behavioral compliance". After being asked to provide a urine specimen, which he could not give because of a health condition, the ACLU reports:
"Mr. Roe began banging on his door, smeared blood on the cell door window, threatened to commit suicide, and tied a rope around his neck. Officers sprayed excessive amounts of Mace in his cell. According to witnesses, officers waited approximately 20 minutes before pulling Mr. Roe out of his cell. By that time, he was non-responsive and cyanotic. He was taken, his hands and feet bound by zip-ties, to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
For several days after Mr. Roe's death, medical staff continued to 'document' in the daily segregation log that Mr. Roe appeared to be 'in good health and mood.'"
These kinds of abuses are not relegated to a single prison, but they also aren't inherent in any detention system. In the United States, though, they're business as usual. Our prison system is increasingly built and run by for-profit corporations, who have a financial interest in increasing the number of people in prison while decreasing the amount of money it costs to house them.
Since 1980, the US prison population has grown by 790%. We have the largest prison population of any nation in the history of the world. One in three African-American men will go to jail at some point in his life. Imprisoning that many people, most of them for non-violent offenses, doesn't come cheap, especially when you're paying private contractors. The United States now spends $50bn on our corrections system every year.
...Large-scale imprisonment isn't making us any safer, either. But it is putting small-time non-violent individuals – drug users and dealers – in close contact with more hardened criminals and making it significantly more difficult for them to find decent work after their release. That's a perfect recipe for recidivism, not rehabilitation.
Prisons, as demonstrated by the ACLU case, have also become de facto mass institutions for the mentally ill, except without the oversight that pure psychiatric facilities face. With states tightening their budgets, mental health care is being cut even further. While the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of crimes than victimizers, they are imprisoned at disproportionate rates, and often lack meaningful mental healthcare in prison and even face conditions that exacerbate their diseases, like solitary confinement and total squalor. We're effectively taking some of the most vulnerable members of society and subjecting them to ongoing torture.
We have so demonized criminals in the United States that there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail in modern day America means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse. But to what end? "Criminals" are punished, yes – brutally, and in ways that should repel and shame us. But rehabilitation isn't happening in these facilities. Crime isn't being deterred; if anything, it's being fostered.
The American public is losing out. The only winners are the private companies who are still awarded contracts to build and maintain more prisons, and who throw their weight behind politicians who promote the supposedly "tough on crime" measures that ensure those prisons are full.
There are many ways to punish crime and protect the public. Ceding our humanity doesn't have to be one of them.
The passage you quoted is indeed disturbing- it reads as a horror movie script. There are a couple of things I would like to comment on:
Forgive my ignorance, but I had no idea that there were private, for-profit prisons in the US. This is not good.
One in three African-American men will go to jail at some point in his life. Imprisoning that many people, most of them for non-violent offenses, doesn't come cheap, especially when you're paying private contractors.
One in three? Those are staggering statistics if they are accurate.
Prisons, as demonstrated by the ACLU case, have also become de facto mass institutions for the mentally ill, except without the oversight that pure psychiatric facilities face.
As much as I have been outspoken for appropriate measures of justice for the victims of Vince Li (the Greyhound cannibal), this passage and the details right after it have me pause for thought.
We have so demonized criminals in the United States that there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail in modern day America means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse. But to what end? "Criminals" are punished, yes – brutally, and in ways that should repel and shame us. But rehabilitation isn't happening in these facilities. Crime isn't being deterred; if anything, it's being fostered.
While I agree with the text within the passage that appeals to better judgement for handling 'petty' criminals... the faction of inmates serving time for violent offences- in particular, murder- still do not have my sympathy; however, placing small time hoods in the same facility with hardened, violent and psychopathic criminals is short-sighted at best.
There are many ways to punish crime and protect the public. Ceding our humanity doesn't have to be one of them.
Let's hear them. While this was an eyebrow raising read, I'm not a big fan of critical pieces that fail to offer alternatives. Anyone can be a critic, but it is much more difficult to be a problem-solver. Before I buy in, what is it exactly that Filipovic is selling?
Vengence is not healthy...
it's called the prisoner industrial complex ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison-industrial_complex
This is from your perspective.
To you, it may not be healthy to seek vengeance... but to 'others' it is. To some, it is not healthy to attend parole hearings every two years to protest the potential release of the scumbag who raped and murdered your child.
It's easy to philosophize when it wasn't your child under the knife.
Again, excuse my ignorance.