And you don't jump to extremes? Case in point: the highlighted blue comments.
Aside from any pettiness... I agree with you that the spontaneous murders would see little to no change in occurrences. But remember... the premeditated ones are the ones I would likely advocate for the Death Penalty: the drug deal gone bad and the hold up gone bad do not fall into the categories I have already stated that should hold a higher punishment.
my mistake. I should have said almost 0 PERCENT. because I honestly feel that the amount that it would deter would amount to that. I don't know any actual stats, but I would lean towards the ratio of premeditated murders vs spur of the moment to be incredibly high.
I wouldn't argue this. And, in my line of thinking, the DP would not be a rampant method of punishment considering the number of crimes that do not meet the criteria for it.
The grieving mother of the gangster that was killed in a drug deal will have to understand that her son was up to no good and played in a industry that carried significant risk for all players- given the nature of the business. Prison is very suitable for such murderers.
The grieving mother who's innocent child was snatched away from her as she walked home from school should expect more. Fortunately, in the bigger picture, we don't have to stomach such brutal events very often... but in the event we do... let's respond appropriately: with unequivocal outrage towards the perpetrator and support for the murdered child and grieving parents. For these types of cold, heartless, and evil crimes... the DP is not only appropriate, but necessary in my mind.
Richard Allen Davis has lived too long from my perspective. He needs to go. Polly Klaas and her parents deserve much better.
Yup. He spit out some excruciating words enraging Polly's father and all others in the courtroom. I don't wish to repeat them on this forum, but trust me when I say that at a very minimum... he's not nice.
Yup. He spit out some excruciating words enraging Polly's father and all others in the courtroom. I don't wish to repeat them on this forum, but trust me when I say that at a very minimum... he's not nice.
against my own better judgement, I found it and read it. wow. if there's any case for the death penalty, this guy is it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
against my own better judgement, I found it and read it. wow. if there's any case for the death penalty, this guy is it.
I'm not deliberately trying to pile on, but I Google searched Richard Allen Davis. Jumping out at me was this YouTube entry of a recording from the CBS evening news (and Dan Rather) on sentencing day for Richard Allen Davis. Of course, my interest in this subject got the better of me and I watched it:
The judge's comment at sentencing speaks volumes: "This is always a traumatic and emotional decision for a judge, but you've made it very easy today by your conduct."
It's not long and it's not graphic, but I don't think the strongest opponent of the Death Penalty can watch it without having their belief system severely tested. With that said, anything that can put your belief system to the test is a worthwhile exercise. Proceed with caution.
That's the crux of the issue then, isn't it? Unless we address these issues, all we have left to do is complain about the consequences on the internet and watch out nation and societal structures destroy themselves.
As parents, teachers and community leaders we need to make sure that young people have the opportunities they need to live as productive members of a society. That means no more kids slipping through the cracks in school, the opportunity for higher education, meaningful employment and a sense of belonging in the world. Also, it means establishing solid moral values in our children. That starts at home and should be supported in school, business, government, media and culture.
The idea here is to prevent people from turning to a life of crime and/or desperation in the first place.
in a society with incredible class differences, this will never be possible. sorry to say.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
[quote="Thirty Bills Unpaid"Thanks for the clarification. I'm not opposed to defending your family. I only suggest that there are various weapons that would certainly suffice other than AR-15s- that also have the potential to wreak havoc in classrooms and movie theaters. Who's going to knock your front door down with you standing there with a 12 gauge?
People can own shotguns to protect their homes if they are that worried about intruders... and no assault rifles to fall into wrong hands. Win- Win. Yay!!! Gun debate is over!!! [/quote]
So as long as AR-15's are banned, rounded-up and destroyed, the world will be safe from harm and evil? AWESOME!!!!!
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
That's the crux of the issue then, isn't it? Unless we address these issues, all we have left to do is complain about the consequences on the internet and watch out nation and societal structures destroy themselves.
As parents, teachers and community leaders we need to make sure that young people have the opportunities they need to live as productive members of a society. That means no more kids slipping through the cracks in school, the opportunity for higher education, meaningful employment and a sense of belonging in the world. Also, it means establishing solid moral values in our children. That starts at home and should be supported in school, business, government, media and culture.
The idea here is to prevent people from turning to a life of crime and/or desperation in the first place.
in a society with incredible class differences, this will never be possible. sorry to say.
yes, but then you can't have a capitalist society then. either you have communism or you don't. there's no halfway.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not communism, common moral standards as a society. That hasn't been the case here since the 1960's, at least. As it is now, Americans are too busy fighting amongst themselves over money, political power, recognition of their "movement", gender, race, political party, sexual orientation.........whatever. Not many people put being an American first anymore. Unless, collectively, we can recover from that...
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Not communism, common moral standards as a society. That hasn't been the case here since the 1960's, at least. As it is now, Americans are too busy fighting amongst themselves over money, political power, recognition of their "movement", gender, race, political party, sexual orientation.........whatever. Not many people put being an American first anymore. Unless, collectively, we can recover from that...
I call it a societal revolution. it's been going on ever since Vietnam.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And you don't jump to extremes? Case in point: the highlighted blue comments.
Aside from any pettiness... I agree with you that the spontaneous murders would see little to no change in occurrences. But remember... the premeditated ones are the ones I would likely advocate for the Death Penalty: the drug deal gone bad and the hold up gone bad do not fall into the categories I have already stated that should hold a higher punishment.
you do know theres no such thing as spontaneous murder, right? murder(a legal term) requires premeditation, which an act of spontaneity lacks.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And you don't jump to extremes? Case in point: the highlighted blue comments.
Aside from any pettiness... I agree with you that the spontaneous murders would see little to no change in occurrences. But remember... the premeditated ones are the ones I would likely advocate for the Death Penalty: the drug deal gone bad and the hold up gone bad do not fall into the categories I have already stated that should hold a higher punishment.
you do know theres no such thing as spontaneous murder, right? murder(a legal term) requires premeditation, which an act of spontaneity lacks.
Might have been a bad term to describe it... but I was attempting to describe the murderers that resulted from conflict (ie. the drug deal gone bad).
While technically you may be correct, I don't care whether the courts choose to call a murder manslaughter makes no difference to me: if you kill someone as a result of an act of aggression... you have murdered them.
McCarthy faces execution for the 1997 robbery, beating and fatal stabbing of retired college psychology professor Dorothy Booth. Booth had agreed to give McCarthy a cup of sugar before she was attacked with a butcher knife at her home in Lancaster, about 15 miles south of Dallas. Authorities say McCarthy cut off Booth’s finger to remove her wedding ring.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
I was curious about the actual definition of murder (thinking about the heat of passion, being wasted/drunk, road rage, et al) and found this interesting:
McCarthy faces execution for the 1997 robbery, beating and fatal stabbing of retired college psychology professor Dorothy Booth. Booth had agreed to give McCarthy a cup of sugar before she was attacked with a butcher knife at her home in Lancaster, about 15 miles south of Dallas. Authorities say McCarthy cut off Booth’s finger to remove her wedding ring.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
We are all just simply a product of our environment. As such if any of us were put in same environment as some "Killers" we may end up in same position.
This of course does not excuse any behaviour and crime must be punished, but Kill just as the killer has done?!?! Two wrongs don't make a right and killing, no matter if state sanctioned is wrong.
Lock them up, study them, make them stamp liscense plates..but let's not also be killers.....we are then no better.
Humans are violent nasty creatures my nature...why do we endorse and continue this behaviour?
McCarthy faces execution for the 1997 robbery, beating and fatal stabbing of retired college psychology professor Dorothy Booth. Booth had agreed to give McCarthy a cup of sugar before she was attacked with a butcher knife at her home in Lancaster, about 15 miles south of Dallas. Authorities say McCarthy cut off Booth’s finger to remove her wedding ring.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
We are all just simply a product of our environment. As such if any of us were put in same environment as some "Killers" we may end up in same position.
This of course does not excuse any behavior and crime must be punished, but Kill just as the killer has done?!?! Two wrongs don't make a right and killing, no matter if state sanctioned is wrong.
Lock them up, study them, make them stamp license plates..but let's not also be killers.....we are then no better.
Humans are violent nasty creatures my nature...why do we endorse and continue this behavior?
I dislike for my tax dollars to be wasted on air conditioning and cable TV for people on death row. It's cheaper to snuff them. IF they are seriously guilty with no doubts! I rather my tax dollars go to education.
Some people on death row have a better life than people that have never committed a crime. Charles Manson and Scott Peterson have a sweet life. They have tons of fan mail every day. They have many visitors. They have a salary just for being a psycho. They make more money than I could ever wish?!!
The System will always be flawed. The innocent death row inmates are killed.
My best theory is to put a shock collar on all of them, and an electrified boundary. If they go beyond the mail box... I will know.
Sometimes, I smile knowing that Manson can only use crayons to respond to fan mail.
(ok.. I laugh every time I think about it.)
California does have the death penalty but California does not ever execute inmates.
McCarthy faces execution for the 1997 robbery, beating and fatal stabbing of retired college psychology professor Dorothy Booth. Booth had agreed to give McCarthy a cup of sugar before she was attacked with a butcher knife at her home in Lancaster, about 15 miles south of Dallas. Authorities say McCarthy cut off Booth’s finger to remove her wedding ring.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
We are all just simply a product of our environment. As such if any of us were put in same environment as some "Killers" we may end up in same position.
This of course does not excuse any behavior and crime must be punished, but Kill just as the killer has done?!?! Two wrongs don't make a right and killing, no matter if state sanctioned is wrong.
Lock them up, study them, make them stamp license plates..but let's not also be killers.....we are then no better.
Humans are violent nasty creatures my nature...why do we endorse and continue this behavior?
I dislike for my tax dollars to be wasted on air conditioning and cable TV for people on death row. It's cheaper to snuff them. IF they are seriously guilty with no doubts! I rather my tax dollars go to education.
Some people on death row have a better life than people that have never committed a crime. Charles Manson and Scott Peterson have a sweet life. They have tons of fan mail every day. They have many visitors. They have a salary just for being a psycho. They make more money than I could ever wish?!!
The System will always be flawed. The innocent death row inmates are killed.
My best theory is to put a shock collar on all of them, and an electrified boundary. If they go beyond the mail box... I will know.
Sometimes, I smile knowing that Manson can only use crayons to respond to fan mail.
(ok.. I laugh every time I think about it.)
California does have the death penalty but California does not ever execute inmates.
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases
Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
http://www.upworthy.com/people-thought- ... y-3?c=ufb1 Ray Krone, a former supporter of the death penalty, spent over 10 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. He would have been executed if DNA did not match another person.
There was a murder in this town about 20 years ago where a man was imprisoned for 10 years until DNA exonerated him. He was a 17 yo high school kid, very much like the W. Memphis kids, when the murder was committed and he was convicted primarily because of the drawings that made in his high school notebook. DNA is proving time and again that many of these convictions were wrongfully made.
If the government who represents us, willfully kills someone who is innocent, we become guilty of a horrific crime as well. "Our system gets it wrong -- and we can't have a penalty that isn't reversible."
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases
Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
The average death row inmate costs around 1.2 million a year! (that is a cheap price in 1992) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/opini ... .html?_r=0
This link is silly. But back to my point... Shock collars and proximity fences.
"
The death penalty is much more expensive in California than life in prison without parole -- about $184 million a year more. A three-year study found that each execution costs the state nearly a third of a billion dollars. Billion, with a “b.” Death penalty economics, compounded with concerns about the possible factual innocence of death row inmates, explains the mend-it-or-end-it reasoning that has shifted attitudes in California, although not enough to push the anti-death penalty measure over the 50% mark last November. And Ramirez is the gruesome poster boy for death penalty supporters, who argue that if ever anyone deserved to be executed, it was the Night Stalker." -By Patt Morrison June 10, 2013, 1:49 p.m.
McCarthy faces execution for the 1997 robbery, beating and fatal stabbing of retired college psychology professor Dorothy Booth. Booth had agreed to give McCarthy a cup of sugar before she was attacked with a butcher knife at her home in Lancaster, about 15 miles south of Dallas. Authorities say McCarthy cut off Booth’s finger to remove her wedding ring.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
We are all just simply a product of our environment. As such if any of us were put in same environment as some "Killers" we may end up in same position.
This of course does not excuse any behaviour and crime must be punished, but Kill just as the killer has done?!?! Two wrongs don't make a right and killing, no matter if state sanctioned is wrong.
Lock them up, study them, make them stamp liscense plates..but let's not also be killers.....we are then no better.
Humans are violent nasty creatures my nature...why do we endorse and continue this behaviour?
If any of us find that we have knocked on our neighbour's door, pretended we needed a cup of sugar, then took a knife and cut the neighbour to shreds and killed them... then we should expect whatever comes our way.
We don't kill just as the killers have done. Which state's method of execution features bondage, rape, mutilation, and torture? Let's be sure to acknowledge that while you might call it killing... others call it punishment or justice.
Again, 'we' are not killers. This term on this forum represents the values that you possess. In response to such a level of argument, someone such as me might call sympathizers of the murderers on death row weak or soft on crime. Remember... we never asked for this. The murderer created the whole situation with their homicidal ways.
While I support the death penalty for certain crimes... I can acknowledge that there are some issues that make the DP an unattractive option... and ultimately, perhaps not the best. I am not so close-minded that the alternative to my beliefs might be more appropriate. Are you open-minded? Are you capable of at least considering that although sentencing someone to death might be adverse to your values... perhaps some crimes warrant a severe consequence that most accurately reflects society's disdain for the crime and outrage towards the murderer?
I mean... do you think it is appropriate that someone who goes and kills a bunch of kids should face the same penalty as someone who has imported cocaine?
I was curious about the actual definition of murder (thinking about the heat of passion, being wasted/drunk, road rage, et al) and found this interesting:
Thirty Bills, our views on this issue are very similar (and might I say, quite common-senselike!). Compassion plays a part as well.
Hedonist...
If a 10C member such as yourself lends support to what I am saying, then that makes me feel pretty good. I consistently value what you write on here so thanks for the comment.
It's not a pretty topic, but it's one many feel strongly about one way or another. Regardless of this fact, it is nice to be able to come on this forum and discuss it. I will say I remain steadfast in my belief that certain crimes demand the DP, but I have been forced to examine my position several times in light of what people have written on here. This exercise has been very good for my growth in this topic area.
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases
Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
The average death row inmate costs around 1.2 million a year! (that is a cheap price in 1992) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/opini ... .html?_r=0
This link is silly. But back to my point... Shock collars and proximity fences.
"
The death penalty is much more expensive in California than life in prison without parole -- about $184 million a year more. A three-year study found that each execution costs the state nearly a third of a billion dollars. Billion, with a “b.” Death penalty economics, compounded with concerns about the possible factual innocence of death row inmates, explains the mend-it-or-end-it reasoning that has shifted attitudes in California, although not enough to push the anti-death penalty measure over the 50% mark last November. And Ramirez is the gruesome poster boy for death penalty supporters, who argue that if ever anyone deserved to be executed, it was the Night Stalker." -By Patt Morrison June 10, 2013, 1:49 p.m.
The process doesn't have to be quite as cumbersome. Russia demonstrated a more efficient and very suitable method of execution for Andrei Chikatilo who- after sexually assaulting, murdering, and mutilating 56 women and children- got exactly what he deserved in my mind.
I am not saying we should move to the Russian model... but let's not hold the model we have in place as an argument against executing those that need to be executed based on the grievousness of their crime. As I provided in a post on the last page, Richard Allen Davis deserves death. His crime was not only disgusting, but his conduct afterwards demanded a death sentence: we haven't executed him yet... and why not for gawd's sakes?
And you don't jump to extremes? Case in point: the highlighted blue comments.
Aside from any pettiness... I agree with you that the spontaneous murders would see little to no change in occurrences. But remember... the premeditated ones are the ones I would likely advocate for the Death Penalty: the drug deal gone bad and the hold up gone bad do not fall into the categories I have already stated that should hold a higher punishment.
you do know theres no such thing as spontaneous murder, right? murder(a legal term) requires premeditation, which an act of spontaneity lacks.
Might have been a bad term to describe it... but I was attempting to describe the murderers that resulted from conflict (ie. the drug deal gone bad).
While technically you may be correct, I don't care whether the courts choose to call a murder manslaughter makes no difference to me: if you kill someone as a result of an act of aggression... you have murdered them.
that's homicide. murder is a legal term.. for criminal homicide... that's the technicality. but the legal system is a bit muddy and in some instances when a homicide is committed during the commission of another crime that can be (dependent on the jurisdiction theyre committed in) covered by the term murder. and lets not forget the law is all about semantics.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If a 10C member such as yourself lends support to what I am saying, then that makes me feel pretty good. I consistently value what you write on here so thanks for the comment.
It's not a pretty topic, but it's one many feel strongly about one way or another. Regardless of this fact, it is nice to be able to come on this forum and discuss it. I will say I remain steadfast in my belief that certain crimes demand the DP, but I have been forced to examine my position several times in light of what people have written on here. This exercise has been very good for my growth in this topic area.
Thank you for the kind words...mutuality
And yes, I've found some of my stances on this and various other issues challenged / revisited / confirmed by many well-thought-out comments here.
It's healthy to re-think things, ourselves included, from time to time.
Just watched the HBO documentary on the Cheshire Murders. For those unsure of the crime... 2 bags of shit invade a home, beat the shit out of the dad, tie up two daughters, rape the 11 year old daughter and the mother, douse the house and girls in gasoline, ignite the house, and promptly get arrested fleeing the burning building. Girls burned alive.
It actually does a decent job of presenting two sides to the DP issue. It made you think a bit.
But, despite childhood pictures, descripts of their pasts, and some silly statistics focusing on finances... these depraved monsters deserve death and I hope they get it before too many more appeals. William Petit simply wanting it... deserves it.
On a side note... the cops sat there twiddling their thumbs for 30 minutes outside the house while the last awful parts of the event transpired. Complete, bumbling, fucking fools that should be ashamed of themselves to the moment they die. This poor display of policemanship might even be more of a failure than those 2 stupid cops that allowed the naked, disoriented, and bleeding child to go back to Dahmer's house after nearly escaping (they bought Jeffrey's claim that the boy was his drunk lover).
Comments
I wouldn't argue this. And, in my line of thinking, the DP would not be a rampant method of punishment considering the number of crimes that do not meet the criteria for it.
The grieving mother of the gangster that was killed in a drug deal will have to understand that her son was up to no good and played in a industry that carried significant risk for all players- given the nature of the business. Prison is very suitable for such murderers.
The grieving mother who's innocent child was snatched away from her as she walked home from school should expect more. Fortunately, in the bigger picture, we don't have to stomach such brutal events very often... but in the event we do... let's respond appropriately: with unequivocal outrage towards the perpetrator and support for the murdered child and grieving parents. For these types of cold, heartless, and evil crimes... the DP is not only appropriate, but necessary in my mind.
Richard Allen Davis has lived too long from my perspective. He needs to go. Polly Klaas and her parents deserve much better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Polly_Klaas
sick fuck.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Yup. He spit out some excruciating words enraging Polly's father and all others in the courtroom. I don't wish to repeat them on this forum, but trust me when I say that at a very minimum... he's not nice.
against my own better judgement, I found it and read it. wow. if there's any case for the death penalty, this guy is it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm not deliberately trying to pile on, but I Google searched Richard Allen Davis. Jumping out at me was this YouTube entry of a recording from the CBS evening news (and Dan Rather) on sentencing day for Richard Allen Davis. Of course, my interest in this subject got the better of me and I watched it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmBd0DiH6Q
The judge's comment at sentencing speaks volumes: "This is always a traumatic and emotional decision for a judge, but you've made it very easy today by your conduct."
It's not long and it's not graphic, but I don't think the strongest opponent of the Death Penalty can watch it without having their belief system severely tested. With that said, anything that can put your belief system to the test is a worthwhile exercise. Proceed with caution.
People can own shotguns to protect their homes if they are that worried about intruders... and no assault rifles to fall into wrong hands. Win- Win. Yay!!! Gun debate is over!!!
So as long as AR-15's are banned, rounded-up and destroyed, the world will be safe from harm and evil? AWESOME!!!!!
yes, but then you can't have a capitalist society then. either you have communism or you don't. there's no halfway.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I call it a societal revolution. it's been going on ever since Vietnam.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/26 ... y-in-1982/
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
they'll probably throw a fucking parade to celebrate the milestone.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
you do know theres no such thing as spontaneous murder, right? murder(a legal term) requires premeditation, which an act of spontaneity lacks.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Might have been a bad term to describe it... but I was attempting to describe the murderers that resulted from conflict (ie. the drug deal gone bad).
While technically you may be correct, I don't care whether the courts choose to call a murder manslaughter makes no difference to me: if you kill someone as a result of an act of aggression... you have murdered them.
Police also had linked two other slayings to McCarthy, a former nursing home therapist who became addicted to crack cocaine.
I don't feel sorry for her near as much as I feel sorry for Dorothy Booth and her survivors. McCarthy is a homicidal maniac who snuffed the life out of a decent human being (not to mention two others and maybe more that we know little of).
I am capable of looking at childhood photos of McCarthy and feeling terrible for circumstances that may have led McCarthy down a path which led to a bleak existence- one that eventually had her murder people to satisfy her drug habit. But I am also capable of imaging walking into my home and seeing my wife cut to pieces and bled out on my home floor. This second scenario trumps the first in a major way and as such, if her death can serve the memory of Booth and the pain of Booth's survivors... then it is worthwhile.
Don't butcher other people and you will not have to get executed. What can she seriously expect?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/murder
Thirty Bills, our views on this issue are very similar (and might I say, quite common-senselike!). Compassion plays a part as well.
We are all just simply a product of our environment. As such if any of us were put in same environment as some "Killers" we may end up in same position.
This of course does not excuse any behaviour and crime must be punished, but Kill just as the killer has done?!?! Two wrongs don't make a right and killing, no matter if state sanctioned is wrong.
Lock them up, study them, make them stamp liscense plates..but let's not also be killers.....we are then no better.
Humans are violent nasty creatures my nature...why do we endorse and continue this behaviour?
I dislike for my tax dollars to be wasted on air conditioning and cable TV for people on death row. It's cheaper to snuff them. IF they are seriously guilty with no doubts! I rather my tax dollars go to education.
Some people on death row have a better life than people that have never committed a crime. Charles Manson and Scott Peterson have a sweet life. They have tons of fan mail every day. They have many visitors. They have a salary just for being a psycho. They make more money than I could ever wish?!!
The System will always be flawed. The innocent death row inmates are killed.
My best theory is to put a shock collar on all of them, and an electrified boundary. If they go beyond the mail box... I will know.
Sometimes, I smile knowing that Manson can only use crayons to respond to fan mail.
(ok.. I laugh every time I think about it.)
California does have the death penalty but California does not ever execute inmates.
Texas
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases
Each death penalty case in Texas costs taxpayers about $2.3 million. That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
as far as I know, only 1st degree murder is premeditated. 2nd degree is not.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
There was a murder in this town about 20 years ago where a man was imprisoned for 10 years until DNA exonerated him. He was a 17 yo high school kid, very much like the W. Memphis kids, when the murder was committed and he was convicted primarily because of the drawings that made in his high school notebook. DNA is proving time and again that many of these convictions were wrongfully made.
If the government who represents us, willfully kills someone who is innocent, we become guilty of a horrific crime as well. "Our system gets it wrong -- and we can't have a penalty that isn't reversible."
The average death row inmate costs around 1.2 million a year! (that is a cheap price in 1992)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/opini ... .html?_r=0
This link is silly. But back to my point... Shock collars and proximity fences.
"
The death penalty is much more expensive in California than life in prison without parole -- about $184 million a year more. A three-year study found that each execution costs the state nearly a third of a billion dollars. Billion, with a “b.”
Death penalty economics, compounded with concerns about the possible factual innocence of death row inmates, explains the mend-it-or-end-it reasoning that has shifted attitudes in California, although not enough to push the anti-death penalty measure over the 50% mark last November. And Ramirez is the gruesome poster boy for death penalty supporters, who argue that if ever anyone deserved to be executed, it was the Night Stalker." -By Patt Morrison June 10, 2013, 1:49 p.m.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opi ... 2896.story
It's a no win situation for everyone?
If any of us find that we have knocked on our neighbour's door, pretended we needed a cup of sugar, then took a knife and cut the neighbour to shreds and killed them... then we should expect whatever comes our way.
We don't kill just as the killers have done. Which state's method of execution features bondage, rape, mutilation, and torture? Let's be sure to acknowledge that while you might call it killing... others call it punishment or justice.
Again, 'we' are not killers. This term on this forum represents the values that you possess. In response to such a level of argument, someone such as me might call sympathizers of the murderers on death row weak or soft on crime. Remember... we never asked for this. The murderer created the whole situation with their homicidal ways.
While I support the death penalty for certain crimes... I can acknowledge that there are some issues that make the DP an unattractive option... and ultimately, perhaps not the best. I am not so close-minded that the alternative to my beliefs might be more appropriate. Are you open-minded? Are you capable of at least considering that although sentencing someone to death might be adverse to your values... perhaps some crimes warrant a severe consequence that most accurately reflects society's disdain for the crime and outrage towards the murderer?
I mean... do you think it is appropriate that someone who goes and kills a bunch of kids should face the same penalty as someone who has imported cocaine?
Hedonist...
If a 10C member such as yourself lends support to what I am saying, then that makes me feel pretty good. I consistently value what you write on here so thanks for the comment.
It's not a pretty topic, but it's one many feel strongly about one way or another. Regardless of this fact, it is nice to be able to come on this forum and discuss it. I will say I remain steadfast in my belief that certain crimes demand the DP, but I have been forced to examine my position several times in light of what people have written on here. This exercise has been very good for my growth in this topic area.
The process doesn't have to be quite as cumbersome. Russia demonstrated a more efficient and very suitable method of execution for Andrei Chikatilo who- after sexually assaulting, murdering, and mutilating 56 women and children- got exactly what he deserved in my mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo
I am not saying we should move to the Russian model... but let's not hold the model we have in place as an argument against executing those that need to be executed based on the grievousness of their crime. As I provided in a post on the last page, Richard Allen Davis deserves death. His crime was not only disgusting, but his conduct afterwards demanded a death sentence: we haven't executed him yet... and why not for gawd's sakes?
that's homicide. murder is a legal term.. for criminal homicide... that's the technicality. but the legal system is a bit muddy and in some instances when a homicide is committed during the commission of another crime that can be (dependent on the jurisdiction theyre committed in) covered by the term murder. and lets not forget the law is all about semantics.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And yes, I've found some of my stances on this and various other issues challenged / revisited / confirmed by many well-thought-out comments here.
It's healthy to re-think things, ourselves included, from time to time.
It actually does a decent job of presenting two sides to the DP issue. It made you think a bit.
But, despite childhood pictures, descripts of their pasts, and some silly statistics focusing on finances... these depraved monsters deserve death and I hope they get it before too many more appeals. William Petit simply wanting it... deserves it.
On a side note... the cops sat there twiddling their thumbs for 30 minutes outside the house while the last awful parts of the event transpired. Complete, bumbling, fucking fools that should be ashamed of themselves to the moment they die. This poor display of policemanship might even be more of a failure than those 2 stupid cops that allowed the naked, disoriented, and bleeding child to go back to Dahmer's house after nearly escaping (they bought Jeffrey's claim that the boy was his drunk lover).