Obamacare sucks

13567…12

Comments

  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cosmo wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    read the article again...no one mentioned an effect on sales reps

    also, the plural of company is companies

    thanks for wasting everyones time with your misguided post

    So... what does that tell you about this company ?

    That it does not want to contribute additional profits to forced govt policies. Esp when said policies promote 'free' healthcare to citizens (and in some cases 'citizens' who aren't legally residing here).

    How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?
  • bellosjam
    bellosjam Posts: 288
    I,ve been a doctor on the front lines of this argument for the last 10 years. I deal with these kinds of issues on an almost daily basis. Now who's the troll? :nono:
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,036
    The Fixer wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    sorry Fixer for the derail ...

    i would say - let's see the whole story ... it's really fairly simple ... if there are more layoffs than hiring/sales ... then it clearly didn't work ... but we can't simply discount the political motivations of some companies ...

    no problem, I'm as guilty of anyone of highjacking certain threads with my tangents.

    I'm definitely biased on this issue as I have seen the immediate effects firsthand. It's a real shame for the hardworking people of upstate NY. There aren't many big companies up that way.

    Everyone is entitled to their political opinion. Just figured I'd make a post to vent and make people aware of how certain policies are affecting innocent bystanders. Collateral damage epitomized

    One other question since you seem to care so much about the people of upstate new york. How do you feel about the proposed fracking and the impact that will have on small business? Honest question, because I would say most people that are making your argument about obamacare would support the fracking which has and will not create jobs and will hurt the agricultural and farming industry
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    Reading this article and firsthand seeing good people that I work with being let go so that 'free' healthcare can be given away to those who can't support themselves is flat out wrong.

    I'll give an example of someone who "can't support themselves" who is going to be greatly helped out by this bill; my fiances mom. I never want to get personal on here but her husband died when she had 3 kids from ages 9-14. She was left to raise them on a city job, which left very little room for savings. She needed spinal surgery a little under 10 years ago and unfortunately, that surgery did not go well. She has had about 4 follow up surgeries, has very limited use of her hands due to nerve damage and is in constant pain, pain I could never imagine. She now needs open heart surgery, ironically enough, on election day.

    Within the past year, she as cut off from her insurance because she hit her lifetime cap, which basically made it so she lost healthcare and prescriptions that allowed her to live a normal life. She is constantly in pain and it takes her hours to just get out of the house.

    Now this woman is not some 17 year old with 4 kids getting free healthcare and welfare. She had done nothing but work her ass of to do the best to raise 3 kids on a very limited budget, and she did a damn good job, if I say so myself. She has been through more shit than anyone I know and didn't ask for any of it. How can a country that claims to care about their people so much do nothing to help this person? What happens if something like this happens to you, your mom, your wife or your kid? You want to talk about good people? Why is this good womans life ruined because we are one of the only civilized nations in the world to not take care of their people?

    I completely understand where you are coming from and why you think the way you do. But I also think you have an incredibly simplistic and somewhat ignorant view on how the real world works.

    sorry to hear this.

    Instances like this should be open to arbitrary review and some potential type of govt assistance. That is a policy that I could get behind. Unfortunately that's not what obama is instituting. the 17 year old that you mentioned is going to benefit from obamacare...even if it means damning the hard-working Welch Allyn factory workers who are losing their jobs...or even worse, the truly sick people who genuinely need help like your mother in law.

    But we live in a land of entitlement. People put their hands out and expect the govt and the 'rich' to solve their problems. It pisses me off
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    sorry Fixer for the derail ...

    i would say - let's see the whole story ... it's really fairly simple ... if there are more layoffs than hiring/sales ... then it clearly didn't work ... but we can't simply discount the political motivations of some companies ...

    no problem, I'm as guilty of anyone of highjacking certain threads with my tangents.

    I'm definitely biased on this issue as I have seen the immediate effects firsthand. It's a real shame for the hardworking people of upstate NY. There aren't many big companies up that way.

    Everyone is entitled to their political opinion. Just figured I'd make a post to vent and make people aware of how certain policies are affecting innocent bystanders. Collateral damage epitomized

    One other question since you seem to care so much about the people of upstate new york. How do you feel about the proposed fracking and the impact that will have on small business? Honest question, because I would say most people that are making your argument about obamacare would support the fracking which has and will not create jobs and will hurt the agricultural and farming industry

    I honestly don't know the first thing about any of that. Not going to pretend like I do.

    Is that related to obamacare?
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,036
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    Reading this article and firsthand seeing good people that I work with being let go so that 'free' healthcare can be given away to those who can't support themselves is flat out wrong.

    I'll give an example of someone who "can't support themselves" who is going to be greatly helped out by this bill; my fiances mom. I never want to get personal on here but her husband died when she had 3 kids from ages 9-14. She was left to raise them on a city job, which left very little room for savings. She needed spinal surgery a little under 10 years ago and unfortunately, that surgery did not go well. She has had about 4 follow up surgeries, has very limited use of her hands due to nerve damage and is in constant pain, pain I could never imagine. She now needs open heart surgery, ironically enough, on election day.

    Within the past year, she as cut off from her insurance because she hit her lifetime cap, which basically made it so she lost healthcare and prescriptions that allowed her to live a normal life. She is constantly in pain and it takes her hours to just get out of the house.

    Now this woman is not some 17 year old with 4 kids getting free healthcare and welfare. She had done nothing but work her ass of to do the best to raise 3 kids on a very limited budget, and she did a damn good job, if I say so myself. She has been through more shit than anyone I know and didn't ask for any of it. How can a country that claims to care about their people so much do nothing to help this person? What happens if something like this happens to you, your mom, your wife or your kid? You want to talk about good people? Why is this good womans life ruined because we are one of the only civilized nations in the world to not take care of their people?

    I completely understand where you are coming from and why you think the way you do. But I also think you have an incredibly simplistic and somewhat ignorant view on how the real world works.

    sorry to hear this.

    Instances like this should be open to arbitrary review and some potential type of govt assistance. That is a policy that I could get behind. Unfortunately that's not what obama is instituting. the 17 year old that you mentioned is going to benefit from obamacare...even if it means damning the hard-working Welch Allyn factory workers who are losing their jobs...or even worse, the truly sick people who genuinely need help like your mother in law.

    But we live in a land of entitlement. People put their hands out and expect the govt and the 'rich' to solve their problems. It pisses me off

    But that is such nonsense. You have no basis for that assertion. Yes, there are lazy people but there are millions who will benefit from this and truly need it. Do you know how much an arbitrary panel to review every issue like this would cost?
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,036
    The Fixer wrote:
    I honestly don't know the first thing about any of that. Not going to pretend like I do.

    Is that related to obamacare?

    No but like I said, the majority of people who are worried about upstate new york because of Obamacare couldn't give two shits about the impact of fracking. I just find it slightly hypocritical
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    bellosjam wrote:
    I,ve been a doctor on the front lines of this argument for the last 10 years. I deal with these kinds of issues on an almost daily basis. Now who's the troll? :nono:

    what kind of Dr? you should understand that obamacare is shrinking the salaries that non-specialty doctors can earn. I don't think that is right either. The industry trend is that these large IDN networks are buying up all of the stand-alone doctor practices. Practicing medicine is becoming more and more like working for a corporation (and as these IDNs grow, that's exactly how it is).

    I feel for doctors of today. They are being squeezed more than anyone. That's probably why you're so angry :D . makes sense. I would hate salespeople if I knew they were making more than me if I had to spend years and thousands of dollars on med school
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    But that is such nonsense. You have no basis for that assertion. Yes, there are lazy people but there are millions who will benefit from this and truly need it. Do you know how much an arbitrary panel to review every issue like this would cost?

    which assertion?

    I have no idea how much an aribitrary panel would cost. Would it cost more than promising 300 million people healthcare?? I doubt it
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,036
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    But that is such nonsense. You have no basis for that assertion. Yes, there are lazy people but there are millions who will benefit from this and truly need it. Do you know how much an arbitrary panel to review every issue like this would cost?

    which assertion?

    I have no idea how much an aribitrary panel would cost. Would it cost more than promising 300 million people healthcare?? I doubt it

    Basically your whole philosophy that obamacare is pretty much only going to help freeloaders.

    No one has promised healthcare to 300 million people, would be nice if we could actually keep our country healthy though.
  • bellosjam
    bellosjam Posts: 288
    Obama is proposing Medicare reimbursement cuts to physicians which will more than likely decrease my compensation in the ensuing years. However I am still voting for Obama because I see the rationale in cutting medical costs on several fronts, including physician salaries, in an effort to make health care more widely available. I am more than willing to sacrifice the bullshit BMW and extra square footage so that I can go to work each day knowing I am able to provide health care to more people who need it and, despite what Ann Coulter says, truly appreciate it. I see up to 15 or 16 Medicare and Medi-Cal patients each work day and I can promise you that the vast majority of these patients are not lazy people with a sense of entitlement. That being said, I do at times run across the shady patient who does try to take advantage of disability programs or even asks for a handicap parking pass when they are able bodied. :evil: However, this is definitely the exception rather than the rule.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    But that is such nonsense. You have no basis for that assertion. Yes, there are lazy people but there are millions who will benefit from this and truly need it. Do you know how much an arbitrary panel to review every issue like this would cost?

    which assertion?

    I have no idea how much an aribitrary panel would cost. Would it cost more than promising 300 million people healthcare?? I doubt it

    Basically your whole philosophy that obamacare is pretty much only going to help freeloaders.

    No one has promised healthcare to 300 million people.

    I never said it's only helping freeloaders. My contention is that it DOES help those types though. And that the fact that it has been promoted as 'free' is complete and total bullshit. I cannot believe people are dumb enough to believe that kind of nonsense.

    It's a flawed policy on numerous levels.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    bellosjam wrote:
    Obama is proposing Medicare reimbursement cuts to physicians which will more than likely decrease my compensation in the ensuing years. However I am still voting for Obama because I see the rationale in cutting medical costs on several fronts, including physician salaries, in an effort to make health care more widely available. I am more than willing to sacrifice the bullshit BMW and extra square footage so that I can go to work each day knowing I am able to provide health care to more people who need it and, despite what Ann Coulter says, truly appreciate it. I see up to 15 or 16 Medicare and Medi-Cal patients each work day and I can promise you that the vast majority of these patients are not lazy people with a sense of entitlement. That being said, I do at times run across the shady patient who does try to take advantage of disability programs or even asks for a handicap parking pass when they are able bodied. :evil: However, this is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

    Physician reimbursement seems to get cut every year. I'm sure insurance companies are just as guilty as the govt. I am in these offices every day...most doctors are not good business people. They are always looking for additional ways to make their practices more profitable because they seem to be getting squeezed from every angle. Your view is commendable, but I feel like you are in the minority of docs with your support of obamacare.

    Maybe I have spent too much times in the CHCs in cities like baltimore and DC. I take issue with the fact that my tax dollars are directly contributing to that type of shit.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    read the article again...no one mentioned an effect on sales reps

    also, the plural of company is companies

    thanks for wasting everyones time with your misguided post

    So... what does that tell you about this company ?

    That it does not want to contribute additional profits to forced govt policies. Esp when said policies promote 'free' healthcare to citizens (and in some cases 'citizens' who aren't legally residing here).

    How ironic is it that obama promotes an increase of domestic jobs and production...and his policies are not only contradictory, but paradoxical to his desired outcome?
    ...
    Okay.... wait... I'm still a bit unclear here... are you affirming my assessment that this company chooses to make the business decision that it is going to protect its profits by sacrificing its U.S. employees?
    Because, it will continue to produce and sell the same products, but with a labor force from outside the U.S. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... it's business and I understand that. I'm just wondering if the company sees its profit as a higher priority than its employees. I mean, the company can STILL operate in the U.S.... as long as its U.S. employees want to compete with the Mexican wages... right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • bellosjam
    bellosjam Posts: 288
    So by your reasoning we should reinstitute all previous banking regulations because it spawned a few "white-collar criminals". You're starting to sound like a card-carrying Democrat to me... I'm really starting to like you. Please don't mistake this political policy debate as anything more than using this form to share ideas. I obviously don't know you personally, so I have no reason to harbor any bad feelings towards you. If you needed a Yield vinyl for instance, I would still hook you up! :D
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay.... wait... I'm still a bit unclear here... are you affirming my assessment that this company chooses to make the business decision that it is going to protect its profits by sacrificing its U.S. employees?
    Because, it will continue to produce and sell the same products, but with a labor force from outside the U.S. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... it's business and I understand that. I'm just wondering if the company sees its profit as a higher priority than its employees. I mean, the company can STILL operate in the U.S.... as long as its U.S. employees want to compete with the Mexican wages... right?

    companies don't operate to incur losses. fact is that govt policy has spurred many domestic med device manufacturers to make changes which negatively affect US workers and domestic production. Ironically, two of the things obama is promoting during his campaign.

    I'm not privy to private companies respective bottom lines nor am I sitting in boardroom meetings with the executives making these decisions. I don't know what their profit margins or budgets are. All I know is that their cost of doing business domestically has substantially increased due to govt policy, which seems like a conflict of interest based on what the president is currently selling
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    bellosjam wrote:
    So by your reasoning we should reinstitute all previous banking regulations because it spawned a few "white-collar criminals". You're starting to sound like a card-carrying Democrat to me... I'm really starting to like you. Please don't mistake this political policy debate as anything more than using this form to share ideas. I obviously don't know you personally, so I have no reason to harbor any bad feelings towards you. If you needed a Yield vinyl for instance, I would still hook you up! :D

    :D

    good shit. I'm far from a political expert. Created this post to vent about obamacare, which I personally disagree with (for a number of reasons).

    I enjoy intelligent back and forth. There is no right or wrong when discussing politics...it's your opinion vs my opinion.
  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    edited October 2012
    bellosjam wrote:
    Obama is proposing Medicare reimbursement cuts to physicians which will more than likely decrease my compensation in the ensuing years. However I am still voting for Obama because I see the rationale in cutting medical costs on several fronts, including physician salaries, in an effort to make health care more widely available. I am more than willing to sacrifice the bullshit BMW and extra square footage so that I can go to work each day knowing I am able to provide health care to more people who need it and, despite what Ann Coulter says, truly appreciate it. I see up to 15 or 16 Medicare and Medi-Cal patients each work day and I can promise you that the vast majority of these patients are not lazy people with a sense of entitlement. That being said, I do at times run across the shady patient who does try to take advantage of disability programs or even asks for a handicap parking pass when they are able bodied. :evil: However, this is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

    But people don't think like this these days. Doctors get paid to test patients not treat them. Like many industries in America, the almighty $ trumps all. As you said in an earlier post, pharma sales reps and medical device sales reps make a ridiculous amount of money. What do they do? My friend, an uber-repub conservative form NJ spends all his time taking doctors out to lunch and taking them out to hit the links (golf for those who don't know), and it is bull shit like this in the industry which drives up costs of everything form medical equipment to prescription drugs. In the ACA, there is a great provision that states that insurance companies must spend 80% of premiums on PATIENT CARE. The simple idea that a provision like that is needed shows how inept and backwards the industry has become.
    If you are a doctor, you are going to make your money. And, you have earned it. But please remember that you serve your patients and not big pharma.

    $$$$ is god.

    And, as someone else has stated, I find it hard to believe that a little 2.3% tax drives mass layoffs. These CEOs and their 10, 20, 30 million dollar salaries are a part of the problem. Unpatriotic, greedy, selfish fucks:

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=197496

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=197088
    Post edited by whygohome on
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay.... wait... I'm still a bit unclear here... are you affirming my assessment that this company chooses to make the business decision that it is going to protect its profits by sacrificing its U.S. employees?
    Because, it will continue to produce and sell the same products, but with a labor force from outside the U.S. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... it's business and I understand that. I'm just wondering if the company sees its profit as a higher priority than its employees. I mean, the company can STILL operate in the U.S.... as long as its U.S. employees want to compete with the Mexican wages... right?

    companies don't operate to incur losses. fact is that govt policy has spurred many domestic med device manufacturers to make changes which negatively affect US workers and domestic production. Ironically, two of the things obama is promoting during his campaign.

    I'm not privy to private companies respective bottom lines nor am I sitting in boardroom meetings with the executives making these decisions. I don't know what their profit margins or budgets are. All I know is that their cost of doing business domestically has substantially increased due to govt policy, which seems like a conflict of interest based on what the president is currently selling
    ..
    Regarding this... "All I know is that their cost of doing business domestically has substantially increased due to govt policy"... in the form of a 2.3% tax hike on their profits.
    Got it. That 2.3% hit holds a greater value than the employees that will be reduced in order to preserve that 2.3% from their earnings.
    Again, what does that tell you about the company?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    Cosmo wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay.... wait... I'm still a bit unclear here... are you affirming my assessment that this company chooses to make the business decision that it is going to protect its profits by sacrificing its U.S. employees?
    Because, it will continue to produce and sell the same products, but with a labor force from outside the U.S. I'm not saying it's right or wrong... it's business and I understand that. I'm just wondering if the company sees its profit as a higher priority than its employees. I mean, the company can STILL operate in the U.S.... as long as its U.S. employees want to compete with the Mexican wages... right?

    companies don't operate to incur losses. fact is that govt policy has spurred many domestic med device manufacturers to make changes which negatively affect US workers and domestic production. Ironically, two of the things obama is promoting during his campaign.

    I'm not privy to private companies respective bottom lines nor am I sitting in boardroom meetings with the executives making these decisions. I don't know what their profit margins or budgets are. All I know is that their cost of doing business domestically has substantially increased due to govt policy, which seems like a conflict of interest based on what the president is currently selling
    ..
    Regarding this... "All I know is that their cost of doing business domestically has substantially increased due to govt policy"... in the form of a 2.3% tax hike on their profits.
    Got it. That 2.3% hit holds a greater value than the employees that will be reduced in order to preserve that 2.3% from their earnings.
    Again, what does that tell you about the company?

    Damn fine management is what it tells me. Great patriots!!!



    (sick, twisted, vile fucks, actually)

Categories